Touched by a Manipulator.

After watching these two videos i'm extremely disheartened, I'm curious to the authenticity of it, I know Derren Brown is a Professional in NLP (Neuro Linguistic Progamme).

If it is this easy to change someones fundamentals, it's quite frightening and quite pathetic.

If someone can explain the subliminal ways of this i'd love to see how, or any info on this is appreciated.

YouTube Link

YouTube Link

It's about 12 minutes long and a snippet from a larger role in beliefs he does, including Alien Abductions, Remote Viewing. Etc. Etc.

I'm sure once you start watching it it's very hard to stop!

reply to post by Republican08

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Knowing how to hypnotize, especially through NLP. You can basically to anything you want, depending on the person. Some are harder to break while others just fall apart. For instance if you move your right hand up above the persons face and snap your fingers on your left hand which is by your side. The person subconsceincely and involunatray look to see what the noise was (while iy maybe a little twitch or a flicker of the eyes). You can amplify many effects, I won't list them here. But when I have more time I will look at the videos and let you know what he does. And yes you can list how it works! its harder to perform than it is to know it, because if you know how to do it does not mean you understand how to do it. see what I mean?

[edit on Jun 14th 2009 by TheMythLives]

reply to post by TheMythLives

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I barely know what you mean!

If you have the time, i'd love to know everything you know about it. I've said before i'm dedicating the next year (not calendar) to studying this stuff, and when I found this I about peed myself!

I'd love to hear everything I could on NLP.

reply to post by Republican08

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Not a problem I will explain:

For instance I will write this word:

YAWN

Now you either: A) Yawned. B) Looked at the biggest word on the page first. C. Did both.

This is highly important to the programmer. He/she wants you to have a limited amount of choices, so that way its easier to control you. Darren does this a LOT! He's good.


Colors are fun: Find a watch or timer and count your heart beat for 1 minute. Write the results down. Find a piece of blue paper or a blue object. the bluer the better (but not navy blue). Just stare at the blue and count your heat beta for one minute. There SHOULD be a difference.


Now for the videos:

Darren at 3:05 minutes begins to asks questions, but look at how he is asking them. he is standing above them. This is used a lot in psychology to show dominance and show that he has the edge. In this on however, he is standing up and using the word "Belief". He finds how they work (How the people think), the answers to questions are important. All he is looking for is something. A key word, which comes pretty damn fast from the woman, she says it was FORCED on her. And then he begins the "programming". Then he asks her:

"Less skeptical?"

Then she breaks down. This happens a LOT in reprogramming. Its complictaed but easy to understand "why".. he still stands above her in a dominant way. Then she shares more information with him! Note to everyone: Never share information and the "reprogramming" is harder.

I will do the second vid a little later. But just rewatch it and look at what I stated, you will see it. I promise.

[edit on Jun 14th 2009 by TheMythLives]

Woah. Yeah, I had heard of people who could do this... Often times they learn the skill without knowing how or what they are doing. Would be pretty useful when convincing a client to approve overtime... *smirk*

Seriously, though, I have a pretty strong mind and will, but I have never understood why. I would be very interested in learning what he is doing to learn more about how the human psyche works in these conditions.

reply to post by TheMythLives

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That actually explained it very well. Instead of forcing her to think a certain way by saying anything else like "Do you still believe" he simply says "Less Skeptical" leaving it to seem like it's her own free will and so on and so furth.

Great explaination!

Or D) Did none of the above and proved that while you may be a robot, you're a conscious one.

I picked D

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think this stuff sticks anyway. Outside the influence, the influence fades. The human mind is easy to manipulate but much more difficult to control.

In the interest of openness, I admit that I did get a faint urge to yawn that I noticed more as I scrolled back up the page. No actual yawn though, and I read the text from top to bottom without skipping to the big word the first time through.

[edit on 14/6/09 by TravelerintheDark]

reply to post by TravelerintheDark

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Yes but I think that the reason, is because you are aware that it is a manipulation, had it been put in another thread it'd been more effective. Savvy?

That's how I see it.

reply to post by Republican08

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Sure, I understand. Although I wasn't actively aware that there was a 'manipulative' post coming up as I was reading. I'm not implying I'm 'immune' either, but I take an active interest in my so called 'subconscious' mind. I was thinking perhaps that had something to do with it. And the point of that being that we are possibly only as susceptible as we allow ourselves to be.

Btw, I didn't comment but did S&F you post with the Century of Self vids. Had to watch the whole thing. Brilliant stuff and thanks for bringing to attention.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm brewing coffee

reply to post by TravelerintheDark

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Well, i'm not completely savvy of subliminal, just now getting more into it.


Kinda late for coffee eh?

reply to post by Republican08

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Excuse me if I came across a bit brash, but I do see it as important that we be aware of these things and be reminded that we can exert control over our own minds.

It's a fascinating subject. I remember that Derren Brown had a briefly lived show in the US where he demonstrated some amazing 'tricks'. Most memorably to me he made a cab driver 'blind' to an enormous Ferris wheel. I believe that was in London. But he also made a point to discuss the techniques in his claim to attempt to aid people against deceptions.

Here's a great example with him buying things with blank paper. Well, almost every time

YouTube Link

And another where he explains the technique used.

YouTube Link

Nah, not quite too late for coffee yet. I exert control over caffeine as well

[edit on 14/6/09 by TravelerintheDark]

reply to post by Republican08

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Holy crap that guy is good.

Thanks for posting this, I'll be studying this guy, lol.


Here's another video. I thought this was interesting because of how the woman explains how Mr. Brown suggested the time to her.

YouTube Link

And this one is like it was lifted straight out of a grimoire of sigil magick:

YouTube Link

Am I the only one having psychedelic flashbacks while watching these?

[edit on 15-6-2009 by bsbray11]

Now the second vid that Republican08 posted:

The beginning is semi important. Because now you can (if you cold read or look for small ideas of what people do, act, and what not) read people and get an idea of how they act. For instance an example would be: The people in the front row at 4-6 second, pause it there. Now The man in the red look at how he is sitting. What do you see? Posture is good, eyes straight to the target, hands are calm and not tense. He is relaxed and focused. Chances are he's an athlete. But thats just an example.

Now the man at: 50 seconds

Now Darren asked an open question and got a very closed response. The man revealed what he accepts and why he accepts what he believes. Now at 1:09 Darrens trick is done. He has the man already where he wants him. He uses what is known as a trigger, something that Darren can use to control the man.

And sure enough the man does. Darren again stands up for about a second. Looking down at the man and then lowers himself to the chair stilling focusing on the man and being just a little higher. Now darren asks him open questions and get closed answers again. It worked well...

I want to bring something important up. Darren tells them all to stand. They stand. He begins to talk, but did you see what they did? They closed there eyes. Not being allowed to see what is happening is widely used in psychology. Darren had them all with the first two people as triggers. Now since he didn't show the undo"ing" I can only assume two things:

A) He used association to "convert" them

or

B) He used a trigger, (which was probably the eyes being closed).

Not sure what he was doing. But it worked, I suppose thats what makes the tricks all the more awesome... You should look at Darrens color change video. Thats the one I know how to do and its easy to perform and easy to set up.

reply to post by TheMythLives

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That's the first one I saw! The colour with the big girl and she thought red was black and so on!

I'd like to know how to do that if it's so easy!?

I reread what you wrote quite a few times, and is this not the prime example of church. It's just kept creeping up like this is how we did this stuff in church, I know Brown sees the connection to, I watched his long Dawkins and Brown chat! It was neat.

reply to post by TheMythLives

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I'm really enjoying your analysis of Derren Brown and your breakdown of how it works. I have visited hypnotists a couple of times, also tried NLP, but it has never been successful, or accomplished what I wanted it to. I seem to 'resist' and find myself pretending or going through the motions, all the time aware of what the hypnotist is doing or trying to do and analysing it. It all seemed too obvious.

Not sure I would resist Derren so easily, but I was wondering how much of it is consensual? You would think that having paid a fairly substantial amount I would be consenting and would want the 'treatment' to work. So why can't I give in? Any ideas? Perhaps to be truly effective I would need to be sneaked up on Derren Brown style and taken unawares, but somehow I don't think so...

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

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I am glad you are enjoying the analysis.



I suppose the next question would be what are you resisting? The technique? The words? Or yourself?

How much is consensual? Not sure. To be honest. I usually do NLP when I am performing street magic or magic tricks for friends. They do not know what I ma doing so I suppose that none of it is consensual...



I think the question is: why won't you give in?



Sneaking up or "Ninja" Style Hypnosis better known as co-vert..lol.. is harder, you know nothing about your subject and you just start rolling. You have to keep moving. Its harder, but highly effective. I am not sure I would be able to do it to you. But I could always try. Let me know. And we will go from there.

reply to post by Republican08

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lol, its all about focusing the mind on another area, set with triggers and complete mind control. This guy explains it amazingly well. I was glad I found this video..:

Youtube Vid

Pk, I'll be honest its harder to perform than it is to see. It took me a few tries, the first couple of times I tried it I failed badly. But now I can do it pretty well...

And a very good question it is too, but I really am not sure of the answer. At the time, I was very much aware of 'going through the motions', and rather than acting unconsciously, I was most definately acting in accordance with what I thought was 'expected'. I was reluctant to show that I was 'aware', which again I find quite strange. Until I actually witnessed someone else being hypnotised one on one, I thought perhaps that was all there was to it, that it was a form of pretence, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I am somewhat inclined towards having 'control issues' and wonder whether there is a self-imposed block that prevents me from 'letting go' or 'giving myself over'.



I presume you use NLP to direct the attention of the viewer where you want them to look, as opposed to where the real action is. I was that annoying child who always checked what the other hand was doing.



You are a very perceptive gentleman, I like that. You should charge, you're good.



Hmm...I might have to think about that. Given geographical constraints for starters I am not sure how feasible it would be, but it sounds so intriguing...tell me more...

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

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This self imposed block that you speak of, is it possible to elebaorate on this?



I use what must be done, if it requires flash paper to make a fire ball while I switch the cards or if I am just hypnotising the person. Darren Brown is serious, he is really good. Look at how he directs attention away, he makes things come to life that are not there. I will try and explain the remaing videos above.



Why thank you...



I suppose that would depend on what you have you mind? I can talk to you through skype or we could do it through this thread. I have seen manipulation done through computers, so I will have to throw out all the stops if you say to try it in this thread.

But it is most certainly possible to work through computers.

Again, I will try and look through the videos above and explain them to the best of my knowledge and in doing so I may answer some of your questions, which will, unfortunately, lead to more questions...

I'm not sure that it is. Not because I am unwilling to, more because it is not something I entirely understand. Possibly, there is the 'fear' that if I really let go, I'll be Frances Farmer'd (lol..no seriously!).



I am an admirer of his. He has that very specific British spivviness that only adds to his abilities, part charm, part smarm. He is quite captivating.



You're most welcome.



I am not really sure what I have in mind but I am very intrigued by the idea. In thread seems suitably challenging. And, you're obviously up for it, you're already probing. If you're game, I am. How do you think we should proceed?



Please do so, I'm enjoying it. For me, finding out how things work only increases the magic. When I stop finding questions to ask, somebody shoot me.