IF you tolerate this, then YOUR children WILL be next., page 4

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by muzzleflash

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muzzle, I was in your corner, until:

...and science is a religion btw...

PLEASE tell me you don't really think that way!!! Because if so, then you'll have to have 'religion' that the computer you are using right now to communicate with isn't based on "science"!!!

[edit on 6/14/0909 by weedwhacker]

LOL you misunderstood me

i meant certain areas of science are religious-like (big bang, evolution etc)

i do accept evidence and logical or rational explanations

thats why my kids will be reading Carl Sagan and Michio Kaku by age 8
thats my goal anyway

trust me im like 100% pro-scientific method

my kids will not only know science, but they will excel at it and destroy old notions (thus defeating old religious beliefs)

reply to post by muzzleflash

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Ah. Then perhaps I did misunderstand.

***sigh***

'tis the nature, and folly sometimes, of the Internet Chat Room experience.....

reply to post by Elliot

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Concerning Ed Balls you may want to exploit the fact he would not know what he was talking about given he has not the experience.

Originally posted by mjfromga
I work in education

Are you a member of the NEA? Just wondering. They pump out tons of
propaganda against home schooling. They don't like that home schooling
takes all that $$$ away from them.

The one in the trailer didn't even bother to try to home school

Then that's not home schooling.
That's either un-schooling (a whole different movement) or
just old fashioned child neglect.

there needs to be checks and balances in order to ensure it is a proper educational environment.

There are. Every state has different requirements.

As I posted - Home School Legal Defense Associaton .

It's not a free for all ya' know.

Originally posted by Elliot
ithy to post by mjfromga

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Thank you for your explanation but I still can't agree with the half of home schoolers being incapable. Perhaps a small number but some of the 'incapable' are also lazy and so would happily push their children off to free state care.

I have worked with at-risk children for years -- perhaps I have become jaded. However, I also think that good parents, living in their nice homes, driving around in their air-conditioned cars, actually having food on the tables, and friends, family, and neighbors the same ilk...really have no idea how many people in this country live. Take a look at the statistics of at-risk and low-income kids. Most are from broken families (some have different dads on a monthly basis), parents out of work, drifting from place to place and school to school, often leaving in the middle of the night. These parents regularlly pull their kids out of school because they dislike being turned into the state for neglect and think there is more safety for their lifestyle and anonymity if the kids aren't in school. Kids to talk, you know, and they talk to trusted adults...often teachers. Teachers hear terrible stories of drug abuse, alcoholism, physical, mental, and sexual abuse, and are required by law to report said abuse.

My entire argument, if you and the other posters care to reread my posts, is that all educators of children of a certain age be held responsible for the educational attainment of the children they teach -- be it a public/private school teacher or a parent. If a parent objects, then common sense will tell you that's going to send up some red flags. For the success of your home schooled children, you should have an educational plan (some states require this already). If you are too lazy to develop such a plan, then you are too lazy to educate your own kids -- period.

reply to post by weedwhacker

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Hey Weedwhacker, What he means by "My children belong to me" is that the ONLY authoritative power over his children that is higher than his is GOD.

..... and for some people...even HE isn't above.

He may not own them but they DO belong to him before ANYTHING else under God.

And what he means by "the line has been drawn" is that his life IS his child. A Father has NOTHING to loose when his future blood is threatened.
And that is a DEADLY person to deal with on a level of horror most people won't expect.

Trust me, I'm sharpening my Hatchet just thinking about it..

Note: substitute "Hatchet" with any other item that wreaks death and destruction when used.





Only a kid or non parent would say what you just said.

reply to post by FlyersFan

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Then that's not home schooling.
That's either un-schooling (a whole different movement) or
just old fashioned child neglect.



That's correct, and now I think you are beginning to see my argument. Many of these people are NOT educating their children but they call it "home schooling" and say it's their "right" and "what I choose to do with my kids is my business." People who actually DO home school and make an effort to see that their children are well-prepared are to be applauded. Unfortunately, they also take much flack because of that other demographic listed above. Thusly, for the success of your movement, parents need to avail themselves of all the latest research, assistance, and planning available in order to promote home schooling as a successful and viable alternative to public/private schools. Requiring a plan (some states mandate this already) and participating in state testing is one very good means of promoting this movement. I don't know how some of these posters seem to want to read through the lines of my posts and accuse my of being anti-home schooling and wanting to take away their kids -- are they even reading my posts? If so, how can they take what I am writing and turn it around so (one even accused my of terrorizing his family). Good grief. If they cannot even read a logical post containing suggestions for a successful home school experience without entirely misconstruing the thesis, then I wish them well at actually having to teach thesis writing to their own children. And the blind shall lead the blind...

reply to post by mjfromga

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I went to an unschooling convention once and was very concerned. A lot of people take unschooling to mean NO formal teaching - and some of the 9 year olds couldn't READ. Their parents were very involved with them, and there was no ABUSE, in fact, they were spoiled rotten.

Then 2 days later I met the older teens. They were amazing. They were some of the most creative, bright kids I'd ever seen in my life. Unschooling obviously works for some!

I think the most danger is in a homogenous educational system. I'd rather see some kids fall through the cracks than for the whole nation to become fascist and brutal and perhaps even a police state because the education system itself insists on medicrity, a dogmatic one size fits all appoach, and a certain secular outlook. The danger with such a homogenized system, should it GO WRONG, is to all of us.

There is strength in diversity, even if here and there a child is failed. Children fail within all the systems, children are abused within all the systems. Children in public school are abused and neglected as well, probably at a higher rate, if the truth were revealed. There are also 9 year olds in public school who can't read.

reply to post by hadriana

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Hadriana - Please don't go giving them any ideas!!!!

But what sense you speak!

reply to post by mjfromga

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People who actually DO home school and make an effort to see that their children are well-prepared are to be applauded. Unfortunately, they also take much flack because of that other demographic listed above. Thusly, for the success of your movement, parents need to avail themselves of all the latest research, assistance, and planning available in order to promote home schooling as a successful and viable alternative to public/private schools.

That's like saying you're not going to let your Daughter leave an abusive husband, until she can prove to you that better men exist.

So we need to show that we care about the preparedness of out children, avail ourselves of the latest research, teaching methods, technology, assistance and planning to you before you determine that only THEN is home schooling better than your Garbage classes?

That's pathetic at best.

Here's some sarcasm, how about we leave the economy the way it is, until we can prove to the Government that there is a better way?

Then create legal framework (obstacles) on a level unseen to prevent them from proving it.

Then fool the masses into lynch mobbing anyone who attempts to circumnavigate the legal framework (obstacles)

Better yet, let's criminalize ANY attempt to create something that is better than what the Government deems suitable for us.


America is US, NOT the government. A small group of People in Britain figured that out a few hundred years ago.

But now you are FOOLED by the media and the Government, to hate enemies that are actually trying to make a better world.

In my eyes, it's on the track to being Germany all over again..

Wake UP

reply to post by mjfromga

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Actually I've read statistics that show that the states with the LEAST mandates in their homeschooling laws produce the highest tests scores and rates of later life success.

What you say SOUNDS good, but the facts don't support it.

reply to post by Witness2008

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I agree with you 100%. I live the the state of Texas and I homeschool my children. It's one of the best decisions I have ever made. They actually WANT to learn (as opposed to the neighborhood kids that view school work as a punishment.) I can tailor their work to their learning style. They have plenty of social interactions with the 2 local groups and co-ops that we are involved in. I have a college education (as do some of the other families) and we choose to educate our own children.

I got into an argument with one of my neighbors because the school "instructed" him to have his child tested for ADHD. This is typical of the schools around here when there are children present that have excess energy. What do you expect? P.E. is restricted to twice a week, and recess is "quiet visiting" because it is too hot outside. The outcome is children put on these drugs. (Yes, there maybe cases where the diagnosis of ADD/ADHD is founded; however, the examples I've seen are not necessary. The testing for these conditions are probably not as stringent as they should be around HERE. The school recommends, the psychiatrist dispenses with ease after a brief conversation with parents, the child, and a letter from the school.)

There are also the parents that criticize me because I should have more "me" time. They are waiting for their kids to attend Pre-K so that they have them out of the house. It's not of necessity that they attend Pre-K, it's to have daycare that's paid for with tax dollars.

School districts (around here) are stripping the art classes because they feel they are unnecessary. Classic literature is being replaced with books that children are more likely to relate to or that are more "with the times". It's ridiculous. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point. I am not qualifying that all situations are like this, nor am I stating that all schools are like this.

As stated by another ATS member, this is just my $0.03 USD worth.

reply to post by manbird12000

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Hey Weedwhacker, What he means by "My children belong to me" is that the ONLY authoritative power over his children that is higher than his is GOD.

I am amazed that you dare to speak for muzzleflash!!

But, your comment is part of the problem I once had, with home-schooling aficionados.

If 'you' wish to bring in a fanciful 'god' figure, then it is your right. There are also plenty of religious 'madras' schools available as well, depending on where you live...IF you wish your children to be brainwashed.

Personally, I consider a strictly 'religious' indoctrination to be a form of child abuse. But, I have my opinion, y'all have yours......

I grew up where the same old lies were spouted....'god' this, and 'god' that. BUT, I have what are called 'critical thinking skills'.

Certainly, I would wish those same skills be conveyed upon all children, as they grow and mature, and become independently reasoning individuals......

reply to post by weedwhacker

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Weedwhacker, you said "But, I have my opinion, y'all have yours......"

That's exactly my point. Don't exercise your "opinion" on another man's family.

Your views on religion or anything else for that matter, are not important to anyone but your wife and kids.

Unfortunately, you're not the problem here. The problem is in those who have the POWER to legally enforce their agenda's and "opinions" on others politically backed by fools like you.

reply to post by weedwhacker

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And you're reference to having critical thinking skills as opposed to a religious belief is utter nonsense.

There are idiots in Both categories.

And then there are people like you, who are worse , thinking that you can be one or the other.

The belief in God is not for vanity weedwhacker, it's not to be used as a tool in making you feel less of a human being for not embracing it.

It is between the believer and his God.

You're belief in religion or lack thereof, is yours and yours alone.

Nobody really cares.

After all, would you care if someone chose to stay outside in the rain while you remain warm and comfy?

You like the rain and cold, fine. But some people like a little bit of warmth in their life.

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