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Palestinian Boy Accused of ‘Collaborating’ With Israel Killed by His Own Family

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posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 





I looked and looked and could not find one instance of Palestinians giving medical aid to victims of Hamas Terrorist Bombings... Strange that... Semper


Stop being obtuse, that's dumb. What the heck would Israelis be doing in Gaza when Israel is bombarding it with phosphorous shells and thermobaric weapons?

The terrorists are the Israelis not the Palestinians. You ought to know that; shame on you.




posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 





As you have your finger on the pulse of anything and everything ever said or done in Israel - Is there a reliable source for your claim of thousands of children being kept in Israeli military camps? Is there one for the claim of soldiers interfering with children? Is there a story of an Israeli family killing their child for contact or even collaboration with an Israeli? Is there any civilized society on earth that condones the murder of a child for any reason? M


I am sure you followed the link but I suspect that any organisation that is critical of Israel is unreliable to you. It is a default position, isn't it?

[edit on 093030p://am3035 by masonwatcher]



posted on Jun, 21 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by masonwatcher
I suspect that any organisation that is critical of Israel is unreliable to you. It is a default position, isn't it?



Of course not. No person or place is above criticism. Even Israeli newspapers and websites are often critical of the state itself.

But some sources and writers have an extended track record of unreliability. Those I'm most wary of.

Mike



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 05:06 AM
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By the way, some curiosities about "Defence for Children International".

The current president of said organisation is a gentleman named Rifat Odeh Kassis, who is - surprise surprise - a Palestinian. He also writes for Masonwatcher's favourite news source, The Electronic Intifada.

Also no mention of these incidents of child abuse on the Red Cross website, or Amnesty International's report (both of which are highly critical of Israel). Red Cross has access to all of Israel's PoWs, so you would expect them to be shouting the loudest?

Also I've checked through the reports on the dci-pal website and no mention of sexual abuse from IDF soldiers, unless I missed something. So what basis does that allegation have? I was only able to find the usual stuff that the US army also does when interrogating enemy combatants - sleep deprivation, putting them into uncomfortable positions, that sort of thing. No waterboarding though!

Difference is that Palestinian "combatants" are typically quite young (16,17), which says more to me about their cowardly commanders who get young boys to fight their battles for them while they hide out in hospitals and schools.

[edit on 22-6-2009 by mattpryor]



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by mattpryor
 


Actually the Israeli occupation classify children as young as 10 as combatants and do not hold the in POW camps. They are kept in military prisons.

If Palestinian organisations hold no credibility for you how about western orgs then?


Thursday, 18 June 2009

"A soldier pointed his rifle at me. The rifle barrel was a few centimetres away from my face. I was so terrified that I started to shiver. He made fun of me and said: 'Shivering? Tell me where the pistol is before I shoot you.'" - Ezzat, 10 years old

Israel's systematic ill-treatment and torture of Palestinian children

Each year, approximately 700 Palestinian children (under 18) from the West Bank are prosecuted through Israeli military courts after being arrested, interrogated and detained by the Israeli army.

Since 2000, around 6,500 Palestinian children have been detained, says a new report titled Palestinian Child Prisoners. From the moment of arrest, Palestinian children encounter ill-treatment and in some cases torture, at the hands of Israeli soldiers, policemen and interrogators.

Children are commonly arrested from the family home in the hours before dawn by heavily armed soldiers. The child is painfully bound, blindfolded and bundled into the back of a military vehicle without any indication as to why or where the child is being taken.

Children are commonly mistreated during the transfer process and arrive at the interrogation and detention centres traumatised, tired and alone. During interrogation, children as young as 12 years are denied access to a lawyer and visits from their families. These children will generally not be permitted to see a lawyer until after they have provided a confession to the interrogator.

stopwar.org.uk...


How about the New Jersey Solidarity


209.85.229.132...:qsYIwH9OEEQJ:www.newjerseysolidarity.org/resources/prisoners/prisoners.ppt+children+in+Israeli+military+priso ns&cd=20&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk



Red Cross

The main mission of the Red Cross is to alleviate the suffering of people by helping them while they are in a difficult situation. They achieve this by negotiating with the aggressor or the those controlling prisoners. Their job is not to go in and then expose. If they did that, they would not be allowed in in the first place.


www.ifrc.org...


Here is Amnesty International report on Israel and its use of rape. Note that AI's mission is some what different to the Red Cross.


www.amnesty.org...



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by tristar
This indeed is way off the radar scope. Its just an indication of the educated level of parenting going on not only in that part of the world but throughout the world. It is also disgusting that the Israeli intelligence would contract an agent of that age.


I'm not certain, but isn't 15 considered an adult over their?

He may have been only a kid to us, but maybe to them he was an adult.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by jd140
 





I'm not certain, but isn't 15 considered an adult over their? He may have been only a kid to us, but maybe to them he was an adult.


No. They are considered children. Nevertheless, young black boys are called men in the US in of the cuff commentary on the news and elsewhere although they are legally children until the age of 18.

It is a way of denying children their youth and making the abuse of them more socially acceptable. This mentality is often carried over by Americans and Israelis to the Middle East.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


Thanks for the clarification.

I know some cultures consider what we call children are considered adults, wasn't sure if they were one of them.

I know it wasn't to long ago in the US 15 was considered an adult. They were getting married, raising a family and working full time.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 07:15 AM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


You are quick to blame Israel for all the ills of Palestinian children. And yet there is clear evidence of systematic use of children by armed groups such as Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad and others.

Here is a quote from Arab journalist Huda Al-Hussein:


While UN organizations save child-soldiers, especially in Africa, from the control of militia leaders who hurl them into the furnace of gang-fighting, some Palestinian leaders… consciously issue orders with the purpose of ending their childhood, even if it means their last breath.


According to the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers (who in this quote are attempting to minimize the problem):


while there are reports of children participating in hostilities, there is no evidence of systematic recruitment by armed groups [in the Occupied Territories]", with less than 1% of Palestinian adolescents having played an active role in clashes with Israeli troops.


Now would you agree that this seems to downplay the problem, to say the least? Let's consider it a moment in the context of Gaza.

According to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics 60% of Gaza's population is under 19. 60% of ~400,000 is 240,000. 1% of this is 2,400 - that's 2,400 child soldiers actively recruited for attacks against Israelis.

This sounds like a big number to me, and a huge problem that people that supposedly support the Palestinian cause conveniently ignore. How does pretending it doesn't happen help the children break out of this cycle of violence?

Note that I am in no way justifying or condoning any form of abuse of said children by either side - it's horrendous when kids get caught up in war - and it is right that human rights groups should highlight this problem. However it's important to keep in mind that there are causes and effects issues like this on both sides.

You do not help anyone by ignoring the reality of the situation and blaming one side for all the problems. All you're doing is spending all your energy complaining about the way they're treated when they get caught rather than addressing the root problem of exploitation and abuse (both need to be addressed).



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by mattpryor
 



while there are reports of children participating in hostilities, there is no evidence of systematic recruitment by armed groups [in the Occupied Territories]", with less than 1% of Palestinian adolescents having played an active role in clashes with Israeli troops.



There, it is staring you in the face. There is no evidence that children are being recruited into the armed struggle against Israeli occupation. Nevertheless, Israeli occupation forces put Palestinian children in military prisons.

As for children clashing with occupation forces, it is because their neighbourhoods are being occupied by armed Israelis. Everyone, man, woman and child are in confrontation with the occupier by the sole virtue of existing. These Israelis are in their faces.

The same thing happened when the Apartheid forces descended upon townships in South Africa. Remember the Soweto riots of school children when curfews were announced? What about the checkpoints, body searches and tear gas?

This the purist form of oppression yet you rear up on your hindquarters and blame the victims.



posted on Jun, 27 2009 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 



Stop being obtuse, that's dumb.


What is Dumb is being so blinded by bigoted hate that you can't see the truth.

Dumb is a hatred based on misinformation and the inability to see any other side except your own.

1. The Palestinians act like animals and kill their own young and you blame the Israelis. Dumb or nefarious?
2. Videos of Palestinians using children for human shields, you blame the Israelis. Dumb or agenda?
3. The Palestinians engage in terrorist act after cowardly terrorist act, hiding in civilian populations and anonymously lobbing rockets, and you blame the Israelis. Dumb or obtuse?

No, shame on you.

Semper



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


You are king of obtusity. There I invented a word for you.


Just looked it up, the word already exists so you have been demoted to prince of obtusity because there must be others of the same mindset.

Further still, let's reflect on your points;




1. The Palestinians act like animals and kill their own young and you blame the Israelis. Dumb or nefarious?

2. Videos of Palestinians using children for human shields, you blame the Israelis. Dumb or agenda?

3. The Palestinians engage in terrorist act after cowardly terrorist act, hiding in civilian populations and anonymously lobbing rockets, and you blame the Israelis. Dumb or obtuse?


1. Why that's just racial abuse. Palestinians are human beings and they behave in the same way as people do when under occupation and oppression. Anything less would make them like dogs.

The good thing is that they exemplify the virtue of bravery when the resist

2. There are no videos of Palestinians using their children as human shields, just a whole load of heavily edited youtube vids from Israeli apologists. Nothing from NGOs, UN, news agencies or human rights groups.

You remember that classic Israeli propaganda BS when the UN school was shelled by the Israelis. The excuses came rolling out and it went like this; Hamas was using the school, stuffed to the rafters with civilians, to attack the Israeli invasion, Hamas was firing from near the school and the Israelis had no choice but to fire back and finally, Hamas shelled their own people for publicity purposes.

Can you imagine that, shelling their own people to make Israel look bad. If it was not so horrifying a lie it would be pathetic.

3. Everywhere is near civilians in Gaza, Hamas is a popular resistance to Israeli occupation. They are not terrorists but the elected representatives of the Palestinian people.

Colonialists and invaders often call the resistance terrorists; apartheid South Africa called Nelson Mandela and the ANC terrorists. The Nazis called the European resistance and Partizans terrorists, the British called the Kenyan Mau Mau terrorists.

You see, when Israel and her apologists throw around false allegations it really is sublimation. They do appalling things and their minds cannot abide by it so they distort the truth.

[edit on 083030p://am3022 by masonwatcher]



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by mattpryor
Very tragic, here is some follow-up information from the Jerusalem Post:

Relatives of boy slain as 'collaborator' seek death penalty for family members who killed him




Relatives of the 15-year-old Palestinian boy who was murdered by members of his family last week on suspicion of "collaboration" with Israel have called on the Palestinian Authority to impose the death penalty on the culprits.

The boy, Raed Sawalha, from the village of Hijjah in the Kalkilya district, was brutally tortured before being hanged. His body was discovered on Wednesday in a warehouse belonging to his family.

His father, Wael, had locked him inside the warehouse after villagers claimed that they had seen the boy "chatting" with a Border Police soldier.

The father told police that he only sought to "discipline" his son and did not know that other members of the family, including his own brother, would assault him and kill him.


There is also a photograph of a Palestinian "collaborator"'s lifeless body being beaten and kicked in the streets, while people stand around videoing it on their phones.

Another photo shows Islamic Jihad gunman dragging a suspected collaborator, hooded and handcuffed, through the streets.

Those of you demanding a separate Palestinian state: These are the people you want to give power over Palestinians to. I hope you'll be happy.


More propaganda in the morning? Correction* These are the natives of Palestine, and regardless of how they choose to live, it is their land. This is a horrific and inhumane undoing, however don't take the opportunity to peddle your propaganda. Also, I concur, it is disgusting and provocative of Israel to contract and under-aged minor to do their dirty work, were they plotting on getting information from the boy to kill his family? I conspire, you never know the mind of evil. Yeah, take over someone's land, deny them any democracy of involvement, and offer a incentive for THEM to live peacefully in THEIR land by espionage of their own people, divide and conquer they say? Disgusting how you take advantage of this story, shame on you.



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 





Anything less would make them like dogs.


Now you are finally starting to get it...

Bravo to you!!!!




There are no videos of Palestinians using their children as human shields


Because your racism has made you completely blind to the truth.

Understandable, sad, but understandable.




Can you imagine that, shelling their own people to make Israel look bad.


I don't have to imagine it, just turn on the news. The Palestinians show me in real life.




it would be pathetic.


There you go, again your getting it..





They are not terrorists


And with you safe and sound in mommies basement, you can say that. Those of us that have been to the ME and fought there, we have a little more substance to our opinions.

The rest of your post is not germane to the conversation.

I have traveled the world extensively, fought in most countries people go to sight see and you are nothing I have not run into a million times. Racism is all over and it always blinds people, you are obviously no exception.

The only thing that changes is whom the racist is for and against. With you, it is the Jews, with others, Blacks, Orientals, etc...

It really is OK, it's not like everyone that reads your posts doesn't know you have an agenda.

Semper



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


I have issues with some of the things you wrote.



1. Why that's just racial abuse. Palestinians are human beings and they behave in the same way as people do when under occupation and oppression.


Just because they behave the same way does not make it right. There are RIGHT and wrong ways of going about oppression and occupation. And technically its not racial abuse, I don't have time to get into now, but its techically not even close.



The good thing is that they exemplify the virtue of bravery when the resist


Again, there are RIGHT and wrong ways to resist. They have Peaceful resistance which is probably the best way to go, show the world that YOU are being attacked an dthat you are peaceful and I assure you someone will step in. Our world is not that inhuman....yet.



2. There are no videos of Palestinians using their children as human shields, just a whole load of heavily edited youtube vids from Israeli apologists. Nothing from NGOs, UN, news agencies or human rights groups.


Not all those videos are edited some show the truth of what is/was actually happening. I would not be surprised if they did use human shields, after all cowards do that all the time.



Can you imagine that, shelling their own people to make Israel look bad. If it was not so horrifying a lie it would be pathetic.


IS shelling your own people such an unheard of thing?..lol.. Go and read up on every war and you will see that in each they have some sort of shelling toward their own people. WWII is a prime example.



3. Everywhere is near civilians in Gaza, Hamas is a popular resistance to Israeli occupation. They are not terrorists but the elected representatives of the Palestinian people.


This threw me FOR a LOOP!..lol.. apparently you have not read the official US and UN reports.

Here's a report from the US of A:

About the HAMAS Group:


Formed in late 1987 as an outgrowth of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Various HAMAS elements have used both political and violent means, including terrorism, to pursue the goal of establishing an Islamic Palestinian state in place of Israel. Loosely structured, with some elements working clandestinely and others working openly through mosques and social service institutions to recruit members, raise money, organize activities, and distribute propaganda. HAMAS's strength is concentrated in the Gaza Strip and a few areas of the West Bank. Also has engaged in peaceful political activity, such as running candidates in West Bank Chamber of Commerce elections.
LINK

Terrorist.


HAMAS activists, especially those in the Izz el-Din al-Qassam Brigades, have conducted many attacks--including large-scale suicide bombings--against Israeli civilian and military targets, suspected Palestinian collaborators, and Fatah rivals
LINK

And more terrorist.



Colonialists and invaders often call the resistance terrorists; apartheid South Africa called Nelson Mandela and the ANC terrorists. The Nazis called the European resistance and Partizans terrorists, the British called the Kenyan Mau Mau terrorists.


Because technically they are/were terrorists according to that other countries laws.



You see, when Israel and her apologists throw around false allegations it really is sublimation. They do appalling things and their minds cannot abide by it so they distort the truth.


There is not truth, I swear I keep saying this over and over. No one knows the TRUTH, we all have our own perception on things. Of course Israel has done some bad things, but Palestine is not virgin.

[edit on Jun 28th 2009 by TheMythLives]



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 10:47 AM
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This is what religion does to you...




posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


I think you misunderstand me. While I don't advocate any form of violence, I can well understand any act of violent in self defence waged by the Palestinians. You see, people have an inherent right of self defence and this is something you either accept or lump. No one is denying that the Palestinians fight back ferociously and it proves the immense bravery of a people fighting back against a vicious oppressor.

One one hand Israeli apologist like you tend to laud the immense military strength of Israel then turn around and moan about a peoples resistance who only have use small arms. I have never heard of a Palestinian helicopter hose down an Israeli settlement yet we saw Israel assault Gaza and killing and wounding several thousands of civilians.

As for your definitions and justification of who is called a terrorist, it gets more deluded by the minute. I suppose it has got to adapt to the shifting sands of zionistic relative ethics.



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by masonwatcher
One one hand Israeli apologist like you tend to laud the immense military strength of Israel then turn around and moan about a peoples resistance who only have use small arms. I have never heard of a Palestinian helicopter hose down an Israeli settlement yet we saw Israel assault Gaza and killing and wounding several thousands of civilians.

As for your definitions and justification of who is called a terrorist, it gets more deluded by the minute. I suppose it has got to adapt to the shifting sands of zionistic relative ethics.



The story of Palestinians only having sticks and stones to fight modern weaponry has been advanced for years.

Counter to this is their admitted mass importation and smuggling of missiles with increasing sophistication and range. These are launched at Israel with no consideration as to military or public targets.

And then there's the suicide attacks, bombing of known Jewish public places within Israel and abroad.


Mike



[edit on 28-6-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


First, I am not an Israel apologetic. I could honestly careless if the country was there..thats sad to say, but it the truth. Again thats your view point of me, your perception. Since you do not know me, you only have knowledge of me and not understanding. Which goes back to assuming, which then reverts to theory. So your theory is that palestine is a Virgin and that Israel is blood stained? I am not sure where you are going with this or what you are thinking?

I have heard things that Palestine has done and its not brave. I suppose you are the sort of person if your pushed you push back type? Thats what Palestine is, except they are not technically the pushers, they use terrorist groups and harbor them. That is not right, I have friends in Israel and I have one friend in the army. I also have a few friends who are from Palestine, they sometimes go and visit the homeland, but they know its dangerous, because they harbor terrorist organizations. Everyone knows that and if you don't you need to read more, seriously.

Sure Israel used excessive force whne they invaded in that short occupation. But they were proving a point. That point was made, or at least I think it was made. The point being, stop harboring terrorists and stop the Bull crap. Am I a supporter of this? Not really, but I understand why they did it.

Push and Push can only go so far, the killing needs to stop. Killing is wrong and not brave in any shape or form.

The most important thing in war is:

Do not become what you are fighting....



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 





Counter to this is their admitted mass importation and smuggling of missiles with increasing sophistication and range. These are launched at Israel with no consideration as to military or public targets.


What missiles? If they do have missiles how come they haven't punched the neighbourhood bully like Hisbullah in the Lebanon. You do remember 5000 Hisbullah fighters taking on 40,000 Israelis with jets, helicopters, tanks?

If the Palestinians had a fraction of what Hisb has, they would give Israel a what for.



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