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Forgiveness: Fairness versus Productiveness

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posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 09:51 PM
"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" - Ghandi.

Let me start off by saying that there is a reason I started this thread relating to a agitating experience that I have just brought upon myself. Today, I was taking the ACT (a test most colleges require for admission). One of the rules of the test is once a section is completed, not to go back to it and fill in any bubbles for that section.

Well, being the wise man that I am, after a certain section, I re-mapped the question in my head, solved it, and filled in 1 out of 5 unanswered questions left on the math portion of the test. Not to my knowledge, the instructor went around during the break and made checks to who had left over problems (such as me).

Half way during the next section, she instructor came up to me, stated that I filled in a question from the previous section and dismissed me. I was out 4 hours of my time, my morning, and 50 dollars. Yes I was quite upset.

BUT - I did cheat, and those are the rules. I broke the rules, and therefore face the consequences (that ACT being void).

The policy ACT enforces after such dealings is that I can still retake the ACT, and my conflict with the previous one has no impact on future admissions.

That alone made me see the difference in a lesson learned and a person punished. Holding an act like this against me for good would be career threatening in the long term. All over a single bubble...

My point is this. I used to think that fairness is always the best way to go. I used to think an eye for an eye is how to stop the problems of the world. After a minuscule, yet very infuriating, screw up like this, my own view on forgiveness changed all together.

What good is a lesson learned if that same lesson can not be taught to others? Killing the murderer, chopping the thieves hands off, all used to be my "ideology", but after losing the morale high ground, that argument seems flawed to me.

Only when I felt that I was on top, or better than others, did I feel this ideology was correct. Even though to forgive someone might not be FAIR, it is generally more productive, and better for everyone as a whole. There are exceptions (Hitler), but on a much lower level of indecency, I feel we need to respect each others mistakes and instead of using them as walls; use them as stepping stones. stomach is still twisting after wasting my time answering 150 questions.

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:21 PM
reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

You screwed up, got caught, got punished.

NOW you think the way you thought was wrong?

Ask anyone in a prison today if they think the criminal justice system is fair?

Now, I know, you filled in a bubble. In the big scheme of things, no big deal. You simply retake the test and learn from your mistake. But to think the way you thought was wrong because you got caught?

I wonder if you would have thought the same way if you had gotten away with what you did.

Just my 2 cents youngster, but you should look at this as if someone else was caught doing that. Should they get rewarded for cheating the system?

Anyway, good luck on your next test. Hope you do well and get to go where you want.

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:21 PM
not to be a downer or anything but college is way overrated

it is generally full of people who know alot of facts but have no ability to make any sense of them

they may know a big math problem, but few of them have any clue how it connects to reality

they may say big words, but few actually know why those words are the way they are or what they mean

critical thinking is Not popular in colleges or universities, they are places of conformity

they are essentially teaching you how to "Be A Good Slave" and "Listen to the Boss"

if you really want to learn something, go to a library, it is FREE and you can study Anything

college is for conformists - i learned this by going myself

be careful becuase they will try very hard to brainwash you

and screw the ACT - its a joke of a test and it does not even gauge peoples critical thinking or intelligence, it only gauges how good you regurgitate your brainwashing regimen

and if it matters , i scored 34 on my ACT , so i think i have every right to condemn it as a piece of crap

it only promotes elitism and prejudice

i am sorry but i am glad you cheated and got caught

do not waste your life on some stupid job and college

go create jobs, start businesses, invent something
do something fun with your life dont waste it on those con artists

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:23 PM

Originally posted by mikerussellus
[You simply retake the test and learn from your mistake.

Anyway, good luck on your next test.

Do not let them scare you into it.

You have a choice. Become a slave for life or become a master of slaves.

Look at bill gates. Did he graduate college? NO

and who is the most successful person on earth? .... exactly

best option IMO ::: Create jobs or invent something

college is a massive waste of time lol (and especially $$$)

[edit on 13-6-2009 by muzzleflash]

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:27 PM
reply to post by muzzleflash

You can do both. Going to college taught me how the system works.

But go in knowing what to expect. Don't believe the propoganda.


[edit on 13-6-2009 by mikerussellus]

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:54 PM

Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by muzzleflash

You can do both. Going to college taught me how the system works.

But go in knowing what to expect. Don't believe the propoganda.


[edit on 13-6-2009 by mikerussellus]

college costs 100,000 $ +

there is NO reason to go

invest that 100k $ in commodities or buy land

anything is better than college, i would never condone that for anyone
its a rip off big time

they are con artists plain and simple

how does it cost 100,000$ to read a few books?

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 11:54 PM
The mistake isn't cheating, its getting caught. Welcome to the real world, I hope everyone enjoys their stay. Kids now a days are subtly urged to cheat by basically everyone, parents, teachers, politicians, peers, and the all too obvious, businessmen.
It's not a wonder, you'd have to be stupid to not pick up on it going through your teen years. I read a thread on here with a statistic saying that like 25% of scientists know collegues who made up data, and probably 95% of them didn't say a word. Or cover up how antidepressants actually increase suicide risk, so that you can rake in the money all while people are killing themselves...what kinda message does that convey? It's just showing reality. The most successful people cheat, and the lowly people are told not to cheat, its a joke. That was a rant but oh well

We view so many things as "me vs. them" and of course we have a tendency of choosing our side. But I think on a spiritual level its better to view others as higher, or equal I suppose, than yourself. If the world was full of either "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" or "I'm wrong, and everyone else is right" I think I'd like to live in the latter.

College isn't 100k if you're smart..go to community college or state college for example.

And I disagree about the whole "College people might know a lot of facts, know big words" ect. They don't even know those. The most important quality of someone going to college should be intellectual curiosity, but that seems absent from a large majority of colleges. "Give me my grade and let me hang with friends/party" sorta thing. I think college used to be for those that wanted to use their mind way back when, now its largely seen as a requirement so it draws in unscrupulous persons.

[edit on 14-6-2009 by ghaleon12]

posted on Jun, 14 2009 @ 02:06 AM
This sorta thing may not be a big deal to a lot of people, but for better or worse my mind jumps right to it when I read this thread. Make sure I got this right buy the way; you didn't finish a section therefor some questions were not filled in, also you finished another section early therefor all questions were filled in and time remained. At that point you recalled one of the unfinished questions in the other section and completed it, right? This like most instances of rule breaking is not the example people imagine when thay create or allow the continued existence of the rule. Maybe I am a fool but I look at it this way you didn't spend any more time on the whole test than anyone else, nor did you get the time you soposidly misused out of no ware this time in question was a result of your speed at the later section of the test. A test that no less is made to predict your ability to use what you have learned, when in life people are using what thay have learned to goals thay finish what thay are quick at quickly allowing more time for what about the goal is problematic. So why would the ACT go to such lengths to stop this, I would say because it makes your test results less comparable to everyone else's. So I would say the victim of your crime was not the test of using knowledge, but rather the the standardized aspect of the test. As for the order of sections in the test, randomize it and think of it as a luck factor.

posted on Jun, 14 2009 @ 08:23 AM
Eee...I didn't mean to start a conversation on whether college, these tests, are any of that material is bad or not. I was just trying to produce a background for myself on "cheating" in life, and make a tiny connection to others who have made mistakes, no matter how small.

I wanted to discuss the topic title itself - not my incident (as I stated, I provided that just for a bit of side information).

Nowhere do I think I should be "rewarded" for cheating; I even said I was got punished for it (which is what should have been done and was done).

My goal though is to apply the lesson to the greater scheme of things. Some peoples life's are ruined by tiny mistakes, that have no real impact on others but only themselves.

One example of this is my friends parent was fired from his job as security advisor of a specific building (quite big in my area). All for an e-mail. The e-mail was in regards to a racist joke.

My question is this. While obviously it is a mess up, NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT, should there be people such as this who lose their life work over something so small in regards to the harm it has caused, which was almost nothing?

Do you support an eye for an eye mentality, or do you support forgiveness and letting everyone move on (yet I still believe there should be constructive punishment, such as community service)?

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