Iranians Revolt - Latest News

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by dazbog
Hypocritical ! It is none of Americas business. The only distinction, is when election results are in question, Iranians riot, AMERICANS bitch and blog. 2000 & 2004
I wish Americans would understand that interfering in other nations internal affairs is obnoxious at best, criminal at worst. You have enough problems with your own government destroying your liberties.

No one here is advocating interfering with Iran's right to sovereignty. We are observing and commenting on publicly viewable activities in Iran.

Just as they can watch American news, and read the messages on this forum.

No one requested a lecture from you on what Americans should or should not do. Because there are problems in the US it doesn't mean it's citizens cannot look at what's happening elsewhere and express their opinions.

What country are you in, may I ask, that is so perfect it has the right to pass judgement on who has what rights?

Mike

I do believe he is somehow right. It lays partly on US shoulders that these people don't have the democracy they seek. You are always around to play the bogyman and that was what brought Ahmadinejad to power.
Iranians as any other people can liberate themselves I believe. It might take for some time probably but I think it is important for people to learn fending for themselves and no friendly bogyman will aid without a price.

Amazing thing is that before 2 years ago all these people were labeled as "towelheads" up and down in any forums. They didn't change overnight to democratically protesting individuals, probably someone was lying to you.

Originally posted by spacebot

I do believe he is somehow right. It lays partly on US shoulders that these people don't have the democracy they seek. You are always around to play the bogyman and that was what brought Ahmadinejad to power.
Iranians as any other people can liberate themselves I believe. It might take for some time probably but I think it is important for people to learn fending for themselves and no friendly bogyman will aid without a price.

Amazing thing is that before 2 years ago all these people were labeled as "towelheads" up and down in any forums. They didn't change overnight to democratically protesting individuals, probably someone was lying to you.

You claim not to like negative stereotyping but do exactly that.

With all due respect, I think you are looking for an excuse to blame the Americans, as I see in an increasingly large percentage of threads and messages on this forum.

I am not American, probably have as many Iranian friends as any nationality, and have never dismissed the people or it's culture.

I do believe they now suffer under a terrible theocratic dictatorship, economically, politically, and socially out of touch with the needs of it's people. One that deserves overthrowing.

It is a default assumption for some they can simply dot connect anything in the world with the US foreign policy. This is totally disingenuous.

The Iranian clerical leadership has chosen to prohibit women's rights, engage in proxy wars in the region, neglect domestic infrastructure upgrading, and many other counterproductive policies since the Islamic Revolution.

The people of the country do not all abide by policies from these leaders they did not elect. They are showing their discontent.

That is the issue at hand.


Mike










[edit on 14-6-2009 by mmiichael]

I'm glad to see that the BBC has people on the ground, the police are making life as difficult as possible though. I saw one video where the demonstrators chased an undercover agent who was harassing the BBC.

A good CNN link that helps show how bad it is getting. The story is kind of tough so be warned.

www.cnn.com...

Does anyone recall Colin Powell's statement?
Is this posting just to be again scrolled off the pages?

Originally posted by seataka
Re previous oddities noted, This is what this is all about...

----------------------------

JPost.com » Iran news » Article Jun 15, 2009 0:53 | Updated Jun 15, 2009 4:21

'Anti-Ahmadinejad protests will die out'

By YAAKOV KATZ, AP AND JERUSALEM POST STAFF
LINK TO ORIGINAL

Without support from the United States and other Western countries, Iranian opposition groups will likely stop demonstrations against the Iranian regime and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's declared victory in Friday's presidential elections, senior Israeli defense officials said Sunday.

-----------------------------

we are supposed to be getting all fired up to demand direct US intervention,

Is this what Colin Powell was referring to in November,

when he said that 6 months into his presidency Obama would have to make some very hard decisions?

If so would that not indicate that these 'demonstrations' were in the planning stage at the time Obama was elected?

The show must go on!


[edit on 14-6-2009 by seataka]

[edit on 14-6-2009 by seataka]

Originally posted by seataka

Does anyone recall Colin Powell's statement?

we are supposed to be getting all fired up to demand direct US intervention,

Is this what Colin Powell was referring to in November,

when he said that 6 months into his presidency Obama would have to make some very hard decisions?

If so would that not indicate that these 'demonstrations' were in the planning stage at the time Obama was elected?

The show must go on!

It's just an expression "Watch what happens 6 months later."

Hard for some to believe - there are things that happen in the world on their own that aren't part of some American CIA psyops long range plan.


Mike

I just realized something, this whole thing if these people are successful in their revolution the whole house of cards collapses.

I'm hoping they succeed I really do, for their sake and the worlds.

You know what is great about the internet and more appropriately those that make up the internet?

and it always comes from the average joe..or in this case "the average Abuu"....

this is a perfect example. really. think about just a few years ago, when the media, the bush admin and all those (for whatever reason) were pumping war with Iran. How many times would you hear things along the lines of:

"turn em into a big parking lot"

"nuke em"

"extremist radicals that deserve what is coming to them"

"wipe em out"...

or something of this nature...?

ill answer that for you...many times. in the newspapers, on fox news, on ATS, other blogs and websites.

Well here you go...here are the poeple you think should be turned into parking lots and wiped off the earth...

Do they remind you of anybody?...hhhmmmmmm...

how do you feel now?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
since the CIA actually runs the iran govt, and has for a very long time, than i must point out
[edit on 13-6-2009 by muzzleflash]

Wait... what? Can you give me sources for that?

Also, can you ask yourself, why are they fighting this fight?

Are they maybe tired of oppression?

Maybe they are like that pissed off mid westerner who likes to hit computer monitors with baseball bats and rants and raves about his government...and he hasnt had 1/10th of what some of these people have had to deal with....

Could they be like us maybe? To be honest, I somehow doubt it...we have had the luxury of a constitution and a bill of rights defending our freedoms. though the obvious trampling by those who swear to uphold it rears its ugly head from time to time...

no, i dont think these people are like us...they have had to throw bodies (literally) at bullets from Iraqi offensives (supplied by us), had to endure hundreds of years of rule by proxy from imperialist british scumbags and then oppression from a government that is so scared of outside influence
it wont let outside media in its own borders without consented escort....

but hey, maybe the media is right...maybe we should just get rid of them...do us..oh wait..i mean them the favor...and just end the suffering now.

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
You know what is great about the internet and more appropriately those that make up the internet?

and it always comes from the average joe..or in this case "the average Abuu"....

this is a perfect example. really. think about just a few years ago, when the media, the bush admin and all those (for whatever reason) were pumping war with Iran. How many times would you hear things along the lines of:

"turn em into a big parking lot"

"nuke em"

"extremist radicals that deserve what is coming to them"

"wipe em out"...

or something of this nature...?

ill answer that for you...many times. in the newspapers, on fox news, on ATS, other blogs and websites.

It's called 'demonization of the enemy' perceived or real.

Not fair, not reasonable, not uncommon.

I don't speak Farsi, but have been told the same things are said constantly about the US and Israel in Iranian media and by their leaders.

Not right. Not justifiable. But what people do.

Mike

Iran used to be one of the more "progressive" cultures in the region..although it has known strong gvt repression for a long time in many guises, underneith the Persian people seem to be very "with it" culturally...this is not like North Korea where people have no clue what goes on outside the borders...Iranians like their bluejeans and lipstick and rock music when they can get it.

Given that a huge majority of the population is young (more than half under 25), that creates more cultural frission...

But the true causes may be economic. The state is deeply corrupt and the general standard of living has been sliding for awhile. I have a suspicion the anger is more about jobs, rents, and basic foodstuff prices than it is about hankering for iPods and DVDs.

reply to post by mmiichael

It's called 'demonization of the enemy' perceived or real.

thanks for pointing this out (i think unintentionally?)...

these people were not our enemy. we have never been attacked by them. i dont even think they have ever threatened attack...the president (i do think he is on the loon side, for his religious beliefs) even spoke at high end american universities for christ sake...they were our allies for a loooong time.

demonization of the enemy is one thing. I can understand the demonizatin of hitler...but we are talking a whole nother ball game here...we are talking about conjuring up an enemy. creating one out of thin air...through undebateable lies.. complete hoaxes...

we arent talking about nazi germany. these people were never our enemy...thats the scary thing.

reply to post by octotom

I think he is trying to avoid another backlash since Americans did not support his Middle Eastern junket. No matter what way he turns, he will be derided as pro-Islam or of wanting to invade Iran.

reply to post by mmiichael

Yes and it is no more representative of the entire country than Fox News is of the US. They take their religion a little too seriously but Iranians on the whole are closer to Western culture than to the Arab world, namely because they are Persian which is an Indo-European culture. The fact that they are prevented from leaving the country shows you which side of the fence most are on, just like Uzbekistan, Kazahkstan and some of the other Muslim republics.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Embassies are soveriegn territories inside other countries. By overrunning our Embassy during their revolution by force of arms they did indeed become the 'enemy'. At gunpoint they took over soveriegn U.S. territory. It is false to say we were never attacked by them. Then they held the U.S. citizens hostage and continued with an occupation of our territory.

Originally posted by open_eyeballs

these people were not our enemy. we have never been attacked by them. i dont even think they have ever threatened attack...the president (i do think he is on the loon side, for his religious beliefs) even spoke at high end american universities for christ sake...they were our allies for a loooong time.

demonization of the enemy is one thing. I can understand the demonizatin of hitler...but we are talking a whole nother ball game here...we are talking about conjuring up an enemy. creating one out of thin air...through undebateable lies.. complete hoaxes...

we arent talking about nazi germany. these people were never our enemy...thats the scary thing.

I understand what you are saying. Words like 'enemy' are fluid in conversation but solidify when in type.

When the US, for right or wrong, went into Iraq, Iran supported, funded, trained, and armed groups to attack Americans and Iraqis. Essentially waging a proxy war, as they have in Lebanon and Gaza against Israel with Hezbollah and Hamas. Iran has also taken an antagonistic stance to US allies like Saudi Arabia.

Iran in the past was a natural ally of both the US and Israel.

The US made a major diplomatic misjudgement when they rebuffed Iran's offer of assistance with the Taliban in Afghanistan.

The Bush administration pushed Iran into a corner surrounding it on 2 fronts, and Iran has been hostile ever since. And this is not even considering the Islamic Revolution which ousted the US supported Shah, the Iran hostage situation, and other historical confrontations.

The Iranian people are captive to foreign policy their leaders have taken.
This is not dissimilar to the position the Russian people were in during the Cold War.

So in the presnt Great Game, as it's called, Iran and the US are adversaries. Or some would say enemies.

But alliances change. Just as Russia was an ally of the US in WWII.

Hopefully Iran and the US will find they have more common interests than differences in the near future.


Mike

Just got this from CNN, breaking.

Iran denies Mir Hussein Moussavi's request to hold a nationwide protest over the election results, Iran media report.

BBC is also covering this story:

Iran's government has banned a rally by supporters of defeated candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi, amid growing unrest over last week's presidential poll.

The interior ministry said the planned march against the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had been planned by "sedition elements".

Mr Mousavi, a moderate, called for the results to be annulled, alleging fraud.

news.bbc.co.uk...



[edit on 15-6-2009 by Scooby Doo]

reply to post by GTORick


interesting you choose this part in reply to my post.

wonder how many wars have been started over an embassy?

why didnt we just nuke them then? why wait to try and start a war almost 3 decades later?

how intelligent would it be to stay while a revolution was taking place outside?

Off of the twitter feeds it says other cities are starting to protest. I don't know how accurate it is, but thought I would throw this out there.

Sounds like its getting ready to go down this afternoon(over there).