US rejects victory claim by Iran's Ahmadinejad

Originally posted by tristar
Perhaps a pause and some rational thinking is need.

Iran has a population of 65 million plus, so afew thousand is not a representation of what the majority wanted. Don't allow yourself to be fooled, ladies and gentlemen you need to use that thing which resides ontop of your neck and is protected by your skull and its called a BRAIN..!

THANK YOU!

I was going to post something about population size and what-not when I had more time.

Originally posted by Drexl


I can't see anything about this video that shows empirically that these people are 'rioting' against the election result.

It does look more like responsible demonstrations and demanding something as opposed to riots...

I cant see anything about it that says they are even Iranians . I can't see anything about it that shows it couldn't have been filmed 10 years ago and they are demonstrating against withdrawing of free school dinners .




The official colour of the opposition is green, they have been wearing it all the time , you'd think a few of these 'rioters' would be decked out in green or wave a green flag or two. Funny, I can't see many attired in this fashion at all .


[edit on 14-6-2009 by Drexl]

Then perhaps you should watch this...





People like you irritate the hell out of me... self-righteous but too lazy to verify their own beliefs...


Btw... Ahmadinejad is now trying to coax them by offering profit sharing in Oil.... I hope the Iranian people can't be bought in that way...

When you look at the Video above and the following one, (which you implied was suspect and without merit), it really makes it hard to believe that Ahmadinejad won by some sort of landslide...





[edit on 14-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]

My unofficial pipeline in Iran tells me no one knows the real results.
The ones in power are always in a better position to rig elections by intimidating officials, ignoring results, etc.

The fix was in for sure with Ahmadinejad handily winning in every jurisdiction by a 2 to 1 ratio even in places that would not choose him.

Mousavi got a lot of media attention and youth vote, but liberalized Western sympathizing Iran is largely only in the Norther part of Tehran. The rest of the country is pretty backward and not media or Internet savvy.

The two unfavoured candidates got surprisingly few votes even in their own regions. Most likely their non-affecting votes were siphoned off to Ahmadinejad.

Mousavi may have done pretty well, possibly coming in close enough to make a runoff election necessary next week. He may even have won, but not by as big a margin as many might think. It's generally thought he came in an impressive close second at the very best.

The concern was to get it over with quickly with no need for a runoff.

Khameini most likely just wanted to use this election ans a poll to see what the people thought rather than change Presidents.

If it makes any difference, Mousavi showed himself to be a murdering bastard in the 80s war when hundreds of thousands of young Iranians were sacrificed unnecessarily in an uncalled for war against Iraq.

The upside of this farcical election is it may be a tipping point for an organized anti-government movement that may coalesce into something that strong enough to affect change maybe even topple the current regime.

But right now it's back to business as usual.


Mike

Well looking at a video i noticed a link to this sight and followed it. It leads to a soccer sight that discusses world soccer but iranians have started a blog talking about the elections and are using it to document whats going on there. I learned things i didnt know thought you guys might like to take a look.

They even try to keep alot of it in english knowing other people are reading it and has videos and pictures of the riots. Heres the link

www.bigsoccer.com...

Originally posted by Tinman67
Here's a link to an article. Please indulge me and take a look.

www.iranhumanrights.org...


The last revolution was stolen from the people, and now their elections are being held hostage.

[edit on 073030p://06America/Chicago13 by Tinman67]

With a voter Turnout of 85% the great Iranian democracy dwarfs the US regime on its own grounds: legitimacy. The only western country to allow for a similar level of democracy is France. I think Iran would be a great place to live in.

Originally posted by ergoli

With a voter Turnout of 85% the great Iranian democracy dwarfs the US regime on its own grounds: legitimacy. The only western country to allow for a similar level of democracy is France. I think Iran would be a great place to live in.

Except they don't elect their leaders. The country is a theocracy. The Supreme Leader is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces with has sole power to declare war or peace. He's there as long as he chooses and decides who can run in elections.

His powers are tantamount to being King. The majority of people wanting to run for positions are eliminated at his discretion.

Democracy is gauged by an awful lot more than a voter turn-out.


Mike

reply to post by HunkaHunka



I don't know what is self righteous about questioning the veracity of a film of 'a riot' posted on youtube by persons unknown , however it most certainly defines a person given to being 'irritated the hell out of ' , by the reading of an opinion contrary to your own . However , we will digress . Perhaps you were not aware of the use of representative archive in the use of news footage. Perhaps you are not aware of so called riots in China actually being filmed in Nepal . Or maybe you didnt realize that footage of the so called bombing of the Georgian town of Gori by the Russians was actually filmed in Tskhinval and was damage caused by the Georgians. Or maybe you didn't know about the photographic agency used by Reuters were staging fake deaths caused by Russians and circulating them to the worlds media as authentic casualties.


So , if I don't fall over myself to proclaim every single piece of film archive as a bona fide and authentic representation of the 'truth' , then forgive me , I will just have to live with your irritation with it . Say, you don't want to buy a used car off me do you , I can show you a picture on a web page of one that looks just like it ?

Does it really matter who won the election, the supreme ruler is still dictator for life. The "president" there is just a talking head.

Just like here, our president is just a talking head. It doesn't matter what looser we put in the oval office they can't do squat without their masters say so.

Originally posted by Tinman67
Iran is ripening to getting out from under the hard liners, the Iranian people in general, don't hate us. Just the nutters that are in power right now.

Indeed, there was a really interesting program on UK television recently about the normal Iranian people - the hardliners over there are in a vast minority.

Originally posted by Drexl
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

I don't know what is self righteous about questioning the veracity of a film of 'a riot' posted on youtube by persons unknown , however it most certainly defines a person given to being 'irritated the hell out of ' , by the reading of an opinion contrary to your own . However , we will digress . Perhaps you were not aware of the use of representative archive in the use of news footage. Perhaps you are not aware of so called riots in China actually being filmed in Nepal . Or maybe you didnt realize that footage of the so called bombing of the Georgian town of Gori by the Russians was actually filmed in Tskhinval and was damage caused by the Georgians. Or maybe you didn't know about the photographic agency used by Reuters were staging fake deaths caused by Russians and circulating them to the worlds media as authentic casualties.


So , if I don't fall over myself to proclaim every single piece of film archive as a bona fide and authentic representation of the 'truth' , then forgive me , I will just have to live with your irritation with it . Say, you don't want to buy a used car off me do you , I can show you a picture on a web page of one that looks just like it ?

Drexl, the historical nature of the use of "archive" video doesn't preclude you from doing your own research. You were obviously wrong, and self righteous about it at the same time... you are STILL being self righteous about it..

Fact is... those videos were of the riots, and all you had to offer was words to question them without lifting a finger to find out for yourself.

You can't debunk by throwing stones and causing uncertainty... you can only debunk by doing your research and holding your tongue until you have fully researched your assumption on a case by case basis...

reply to post by HunkaHunka


So, where is the authority then that this video is genuine footage , this 'fact ' that you call it . This 'fact' that I have the onus of doing research to disprove ? All you have done is post some other video . I don't see what that has to do with it , If I showed you footage of 2 'riots' in a similar environment where is the proof they are both filmed of the same event ? You know of the events in Iran and everything you see that looks like it might just be real footage of these event has to authentic. I bet I could link a demonstration in Syria 5 years ago and have you believe it was just taken recently in Iran . I could show you a small hostile crowd , then another more peaceful demonstration , but with many more in their numbers , and call it a riot , and you would be there with the vision of multitudes of angry and violent mobs roaming the streets.

And my position is not to categorically state this video was not taken in Iran , but that of skepticism . That it may not have been taken there recently , that is could be another unrelated event . To hold reservations about it , to not blindly believe that some youtube video posted by some unknown unauthenticated source is bona fide footage . And you call that 'obviously wrong' . And to you , it probably is wrong . You are obviously a fairly gullible emotional type that comes to snap judgements and dubious conclusions ... like questioning whether it was a landslide or not based on a few people pictured marching and shouting. So the only one of us that could be wrong is you , as you state this video is genuine whilst I hold the opinion that it may or may not be . Not much chance of getting you to hold your mouth till you actually get evidence this video is genuine thou is there ? Too much hubris to get out , too many conclusions to jump too and shout about , too much irritation to vent .

Why are we sticking our noses into another country's internal affairs?

Isn't this one of the main reasons people voted for Barry?

reply to post by Drexl


Your brand of skepticism is one sided.

I happen to know the video is what is most likely what is occurring because I have seen the same thing on Arabic Television of the events.

I don't need objective proof of this one video when it matches all of the others coming out of the region.... could I be duped... sure... do I care... in this case, not really...


If you would like to look at a bunch of other "unvalidated" yet obviously true videos of what's going on in Iran right now... go to the main thread...

Tell them they're off base and should be sketpical..

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 14-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]

[edit on 14-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]

english.aljazeera.net... 03995.htmlreply to post by Drexl


Your being silly at this point it is obviously video because Ive seen others of this march to there Parliament down this same street by multiple cameras.If you prefer however and you actually think the Iranians are not protesting you can go to AL Jazeeras website they have a report about it since apparently you have a hard time believing.

It starts with a vanguard of students and urban intellectuals rioting over a 'straw that broke the camel's back' outrage.

That's the genesis of the Communist Revolution and a dozen other.

Then the workers get pulled in, the farmers, the whole country.

Governments used to be able to do blackouts of information. Now everything is real time.

You're watching a historical tipping point with Iranian women and men crying in unison "Enough is enough."

No conspiracy or manipulation in this one. The people had a taste of Freedom for a few days. It was taken away from them.

Things will never go back to normal in Iran.


Mike

Hello mmiichael !

Does your unofficial pipeline find credible the riots are a set up to arrest opponents ?

edit : And do you find it credible ?

[edit on 14-6-2009 by Manouche]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Wow!

That line looks endless.. .the Iranian people are TICKED!

Yeah this looks like the OP has no idea what he/she is talking about... because it appears obvious to me that something is afoot... when you have THIS MANY Iranians protesting.. it's hard to think of a landslide...

Tell me about it...

That looks almost exactly like it started when the Shaw was over thrown and the Mullahs came to power. Is history repeating itself?
I wonder....


[edit on 14-6-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by Manouche
Hello mmiichael !

Does your unofficial pipeline find credible the riots are a set up to arrest opponents ?

edit : And do you find it credible ?

Hi Manouche.

No message in the last few hours.

Impression is there is chaos and no one can say with certainty what the bigger picture is.

Obviously the government will arrest those they consider key agitators and is taking pictures for future reference.

This is reminiscent of the student riots in Paris of 1968.

No one on either side was prepared for this. So we are seeing genuine spontaneity and a police force not knowing exactly how to respond.

The real question is what is happening in cities and towns outside Tehran.

Will this be isolated or spread?


Mike

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


Hah. I would like to see what happened if Iran rejected the legitimacy of the election and subsequent re-election of George Bush. And also the election of Obama.

The US media are either sheep or hypocrites for not recognizing, or refusing to recognize their own totally corrupt electoral system.

Basically, the US is much better at covering up and glossing over it's corruption than Iran, Zimbabwe, Korea, South America, but that does not mean they are any less corrupt.

Whether Iran's election was a fraud or not is not the question for me. The question is, how is it any of our business, and what right do we have to judge or act on it.

In other words, we should clean up our own mess before we go preaching to other's about theirs.

funny.. they diddend reject the elections at 2000 in the usa....:-)