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Christians sue for right to burn gay teen novel

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posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by SevenThunders
I'd prefer it if we could tone down the current paradigm of the radical homosexual evangelism of our youth.

Science has confirmed that homosexuality is determined by nature not nurture. So therefore introducing youth to stories that show empathy and compassion towards our fellow gay brothers and lesbian sisters is a progressive step away from ignorance, fear and hatred.


If it weren't for that, I wouldn't care much, since it's just another sin in a long list of sins that man often stumbles in to.

You need to discard some of your old spoon feed classifications of what constitutes a sin. For gays aren't hurting anyone by acknowledging and accepting who they are.


Actually it is a little odd that our so called elected leaders and appointed judges have suddenly decided that homo-marriage and all things homo are good.

Have suddenly decided? We have a progressive party in rule now, they are only trying to do the right thing, while the iron is hot.


At least for now, this position is still somewhat unpopular based on polling numbers.

Which polls are you going by?


Essentially the homo agenda is being shoved down our throats (no pun intended).

...and the gay community could say the hetero agenda has been shoved down theirs. You know the world doesn't solely revolve around us heteros?


It is an undemocratic decision by corrupted elites. The question is why? How does it serve the elite agenda? I have to assume they deliberately desire the moral collapse of our society. They know exactly what they are doing.

See now this is the same reactionary alarmist paranoia i was referring to just a couple posts ago. It is this exact position that gives us all good reason to be worried, for while you are distracted by this non-issue, real issues are not getting addressed.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by The All Seeing I]




posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 03:03 AM
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Originally posted by Kailassa
They have forced four people out of their positions and and want to remove three books about gays from the library and burn them.
Suddenly it doesn't seem so long ago that Christians were burning gays and witches, and slaughtering Jews, Muslims and Cathars.

It's sad that people can believe in a god who rewards fear, hatred and intolerance, closed-mindedness and interference in the lives of others.
Can you imagine the looks on these peoples' faces if they arrived at Heaven and discovered Jesus was gay? And then heard the words, "Inasmuch as you did for(to) the least of these my brethren, you did also unto me"?

The Gospel of St Thomas has been said to indicate Jesus had a homosexual relationship.





Is THAT what you believe??

“looked upon Jesus and loved Him,” there is no suggestion in the text that this was an erotic love. It is not uncommon to read of Jesus loving others both men and women. He loved the young ruler, John, and Lazurus, but He also loved Mary and Martha (John 11:5). The love of the young man toward Jesus was doubtless of the same nature as the love Jesus had for the world (John 3:16) and for His heavenly Father (John 17:23)—the pure, dispassionate love that ultimately results in sacrifice (John 15:13). If we are to understand love (agapaô) as sexual love, then the New Testament commands to “love your enemies” and “love your neighbor,” and Jesus’ instruction to His disciples to “love one another” as He had loved them must take on an entirely new meaning.


This is exactly why I said Gays have NO understanding of what Jesus was talking about but this is just one of the many ways secularists have bastardized the scriptures to fit their un-holy agenda when it suits them and to attack Christians as "Not even undertstanding ther own Bible" !



The Bible tells us Jesus taught to humble oneself to even wash the hands and feet of others, in a time when touching a fellow Jew's feet was taboo because feet were regarded as filthy. He taught to turn the other cheek. He taught blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. . He even mended the ear of a Centurion, despite knowing the Centurion was taking him to his death.


You ain't talking to some Christian who just got off the Church's bus ride for the Homeless and I see right through your veil of fear and what you fear is God and I got to tell you, after what you have suggested here, it is YOUR face I would like to see when the Lord asks you the same question.
Unfortunately, the success of the homosexual movement in this area has resulted in numerous Christians remaining silent, for fear of being labeled as hatemongers or worse. Some Christians seem to have forgotten the words of the Savior:

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake (Matthew 5:10-11).


Nothing less than “complete and total acceptance!” This often is the answer given when homosexual activists are asked what they are seeking from the public in general. Such activists equate acceptance with civil liberties and equality. They believe that those individuals who do not accept the homosexual “lifestyle” are committing the unpardonable sin
the sin of intolerance whoooo!!!

I have even seen some say Jesus was gay to substantiate gay marriage . God’s decision to create a female counterpart to the male was not coincidental. The female uniquely met three essential criteria: (1) “It is not good for man to be alone” (Genesis 2:18); (2) a helper, "suitable" to him, was needed. Did you get that? "S-U-I-T-A-B-L-E"
(Genesis 2:18,20); and (3) the human race was to be perpetuated through sexual union (Genesis 1:28). Both Jesus and Paul reiterated this same understanding (Matthew 19:4-6; 1 Corinthians 7:2). So the woman was: (a) the divine antidote to Adam’s loneliness; (b) a helper fit for him; and (c) the means of the propagation of the human race. Here, we see the divine arrangement for the human species.
It matters NOT what the monkeys do and it matters NOT what gays THINK the majority should comply.
In fact, certain school systems today actively teach youngsters the idea that we must embrace every concept that society popularizes, else we will be unloving and intolerant.
This indoctrinates children quite convincingly from a very young age that if they do not give everyone “complete and total acceptance,” then they are bigoted and mean spirited.

In one voice they insist on telling us what they think Jesus taught, that he taught warm fuzzy loveyness and cozy damsel dyzies. This was only part of the love Jesus taught and anyone who claims they know the Bible, as you seem to think you do, would be asking these same people, "Then how come so many of them call it "Child Abuse" to teach such a thing?

I call this intellectual dishonesty and slam it right back to those like you, who bastardize scripture in the same voice you say you are trying to defend Christianity.

You are NOT, and you do not understand the Bible either. Did it ever occur to you why Peter just happened to have a sword ready when he cut off that soldiers ear?

Ill let that sink in.


Yeah,, that's right, when Jesus spoke in many places, he just seemed to vanish as a Mob of angry sinners not agreeing with what he said tried to attack him. Do you know what THEY would have sounded like?

They sounded just like YOU.

Jesus, pissed a lot of people off and those he pissed off were like you are.

Hating the truth.

Did it ever occur to you WHY they had to send an army of Roman Centurians to arrest Jesus if he was so lovey dovey as you say surely he would have come just by asking?

NO Judas had to ADVISE the phrasee for the the romans own good they would need many soldiers as this was no ordinary man and this Jesus was no wimp. As I said before, Jesus was blunt and he would be giving you the same correction I am and you would most likely Crucify him again the same way you are now.


He taught to refrain from criticising others and instead remove the "plank" from one's own eye


And all I have seen here are posts Criticizing Christians so that quote is what Jesus would have said

TO YOU.

You got a problem with God calling him a child killer in the same voice you ask to underdstand why Dr Tiller reaped what he sewn? HA HA you really are quite confused aren't you. a funny guy.
Do you know anything about the God in the old testament? Or do you just cherry pick the blood thirsty parts so you can use them as barbs against believers in the same voice you tell me you are defending Christianity from the likes of me. You like to defend the depravity of men who started out like Ted Bundy a serial killer who was addicted to porn. You might say that if it were true porn was the cause of serial killers why is their no correlation to such depravity and I would show you that EACH ONE of these men gave silly excuses to assail the Christian morality the same way you arre to me.


Homosexual Mass Murderers
*Listen online => Bob Enyart Live

Homo Jeffrey Dahmer: raped, murdered and ate 13 young men and boys.

Homo John Wayne Gacy: Chicago, killed 33 boys.

Homo California Freeway Killer William G. Bonin: murdered 14 boys ages 12 to 19, sexually molested them, tortured, mutilated, strangled & dumped their naked bodies. One was stabbed 70 times. Another had an ice pick in his head. Others had cigarette burns. 1969 convicted of assaulting five boys, sentenced to five years. 1975 imprisoned for another rape. Paroled in 10-78 & began his homo rape & murder spree immediately. Police caught him while he was sexually assaulting a 15-yr-old boy in his van. AP 2-23-96 "WGB said the death penalty "sends the wrong message" to America's youth. Universal Press Syndicate 960507 Gambit Weekly, New Orleans. He had been on death row for 14 years for 1979?80 murders. Executed 2-23-96 during BEL broadcast; studio lights dimmed.

Homo Patrick Kearney: murdered 32, cutting boys up and putting them into trash bags.

Homo Thomas Hamilton: murdered 16; Scotland's mass murderer liked little boys in various states of undress. Called Mr. Creepie by some of Dunblane's children. Got even by killing 16 kindergarten children and their teacher and then himself on March 3, 13. Known by police to be "a risk to children," -USA Today 19990721, page 8a.

Homo Andrew Cunanan: murderer of Zgianni Versace, fashion designer. This male prostitute was wanted in connection with four other murders nationwide.

Homo Orville Lynn Majors: 60 murderers, charged with six. BEL listener Barbera Brown of Madisonville KY called on the air to say that she was a relative of Majors, and that he was a known homosexual. 6 counts of murder... One patient died every 156 hours at Vermillion County Hospital in Indiana during his shifts. He was charged with six deaths but is believed to have murdered 60 people.

Homo Charles Manson: a prostitute's illegitimate son, spent most of his early life in institutions for offences including theft, pimping and homosexual rape . When released in 1967, aged 32, he used his criminal contacts to buy drugs and seduce enough young middle-class women to create The Family.

Homo Donald Harvey: murdered dozens in a Kentucky hospital, as many as 70 .

Homo Anthony Morley: A gay chef murdered his partner, cut out part of his leg, seasoned it with herbs and fried it, a British court heard. Anthony Morley, 35, chewed one of the pieces before throwing it into his kitchen trash. Morley is a former holder of the Mr. Gay UK title .

Homo Bruce Davis: Charles Manson accomplice who appears on the Associated Press list of Worst U.S. Serial Killers , according to Dr. Paul Cameron of the Family Research Institute.

Homo Nathaniel Bar-Jonah: homosexual cannibal Bar-Jonah sexually molested boys in Massachusetts and Montana and butchered at least one, a ten year old in Great Falls named Zachary Ramsay.

Homo Corll, Henley & Brooks: sex ring, murdered and, tortured 27 in Texas.

Homo Juan Corona: murdered dozens of migrant workers and molested their corpses.

Homo Richard Speck: murdered 8 nursing students, bragged about it on video tape showing him having sex with an inmate and bragging about the many inmates he had sodomized. Died of a heart attack in 1991.

Homo Wayne Williams: in Atlanta from 1979-1981 killed black boys, thought to be a racist, but turned out to be a black homosexual.

Homo Frank Davis: killed two youths on a camping trip with an ax in 1983 and almost killed two others, had his death sentence commuted to a 120-year prison term. Murders in Kingsford Heights. "Davis killed the teens after sexually molesting them. Darrin Reed, 14 and Jeffrey Lopez, 15 were killed and two others were left for dead but survived... Davis argued he was sexually abused as an adolescent at Beatty mental hospital... he was forced to perform homosexual acts, as an adolescent, with the older inmates... This ‘affected Davis' sexual identity,' his lawyers said." Of course, homosexual men reproduce by molesting boys.

Homo John Joubert: former Boy Scout leader said he enjoyed the "power and domination" of killing. He was executed in the electric chair early July 17, 1996 for murdering two boys in 1983. Joubert repeatedly stabbed and slashed Danny Jo Eberle, 13, and Christopher Walden, 12. He also was convicted of stabbing and strangling a boy in Maine. -South Bend Tribune, IN wire report, p. A6


say you would like to the depravity of these men who all started out reading books and publications like the one called be-bop.

Then we have the reasons I do NOT trust the public library for the same reasons I despies what our so called secularist science communty has done to our kids education and the moral consequences are everywhere and it is IGNORANCE to suggest the warnings given in the Bible that tell of these same consequences, can't be directly traced to mans dissing of his word.


Time -- June 18, 2008

Los Angeles Times - May 28, 2009

Sergio Garcia stood in the gymnasium and told the senior class at Fairfax High School not to worry: If he was elected, he wouldn't wear a dress.


"I will be wearing a suit," Garcia said, "but don't be fooled, deep down inside, I am a queen!"

Garcia, 18, spent most of his years at Fairfax openly gay and wanted to be part of the Los Angeles school's prom court -- but not as prom king. He felt that vying for prom queen would better suit his personality, so he decided to seek that crown, running against a handful of female classmates.

He said it started out as a bit of a stunt and challenge -- he wasn't sure the school would allow it. But his campaign for queen ended up being serious and sparking dialogue about gender roles on campus.

A few days before the dance and election, the contenders gave short speeches on why they deserved the crown.


Education:
the 'spirit of Obama' to the p-skools by promoting classes; distribute cheap condoms, triple the number of bathroom stalls by 2010


June 5, 2009 -- Kevin Jennings, a homosexual activist who worked to create "safe spaces" for gay students at schools, has been appointed by the Obama administration to be assistant deputy secretary of the Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools inside the Department of Education.

Jennings is also the founder of the Gay, Lesbian, Straight Education Network

(GLSEN), a "leading advocacy organization to promote a homosexual agenda in schools," said Peter Sprigg, senior fellow for policy studies at the Family Research Council.


"Their definition of safe schools are schools in which homosexuality is not only tolerated but is actively affirmed," added Sprigg.

My question is,, just what IS their "agenda" anyway?

Here is more about our precious public schools run by honka's "secular society."

Study flunks school policies

The data show districts don't link decisions on hiring and firing with teacher effectiveness.

The Denver Post - June 2, 2009

NEXT

Excellent teaching goes unrecognized and poor teaching is ignored across the country and in Denver, according to a national study that says failed policies make teachers as interchangeable as widgets.

The two-year study called "The Widget Effect: Our National Failure to Acknowledge and Act on Differences in Teacher Effectiveness" examined four states and 12 school districts, including those in Denver and Pueblo. It found common patterns: that teacher effectiveness rarely factors into decisions, such as how teachers are hired, fired or promoted.

NEXT

The Arizona Republic -- June 8, 2009

A Chandler high school teacher who is accused of being the center of a fatal love triangle involving two former students has filed a motion with the court asking to be considered a victim in the incident.

While she is not listed as a victim in the indictment, Tamara Darline Hofmann, 48, said in a motion filed by her attorney that she was hit and then held down by her 20-year-old fiancé, Sixto Balbuena, who admitted stabbing 18-year-old Samuel Valdivia to death after finding the two in a compromising position.

As a victim rather than a witness, Hofmann could refuse interviews with Balboa's defense team and would be able to confer with the prosecution at any point leading up to the trial. She would also be privy to any release decisions, plea negotiations and sentencing, according to the victim's rights listed in state'sconstitution.


The notice of appearance, filed June 1 by her attorney Christopher DuPont, said Hofmann "intends to assert all rights guaranteed to her as a victim."


Teacher was in a relationship with a man while having the affair with her 14-year-old student who had a history of 'acting up' - and were always 'the number one thing on his mind.'

NEXT

Queens Chronicle -- June 4, 2009

An I.S. 8 teacher accused of having sex with a 14-year-old student at the Jamaica middle school now waits in jail as she faces charges of statutory rape.


Melissa Weber, a social studies teacher, allegedly engaged in sexual intercourse in a second-floor classroom with the boy — the son of a PTA member — on seven separate occasions between April 13 and May 14. She was arraigned Friday on seven counts of second-degree rape, 14 counts of third-degree sexual abuse and one count of endangering the welfare of a child.


The next court date for Weber, who resides on Long Island, will be June 15 in Queens County Criminal Court. Weber denied the charges in a statement released through police after the arraignment. When questioned, she painted the boy as the one who made advances by, for instance, grabbing her buttocks.


Bail was set at $100,000, and the judge ordered Weber to stay away from the boy if bail were to be posted. If convicted, Weber could face up to seven years in prison.

NEXT

Los Angeles Times - May 28, 2009
homosexual, Sergio Garcia of Fairfax High in Los Angeles, thought it would be cute to confuse himself and his gender even more by campaigning to be his school's prom queen. Perhaps he thought the stunt could be pulled off by invoking the ol' "tolerance" bit with his classmates. Obviously, no girl wanted that crown at the expense of seeming intolerant of a gender-confused boy as allegations of bigotry and intolerance were leveled at girls who objected .

Sergio Garcia stood in the gymnasium and told the senior class at Fairfax High School not to worry: If he was elected, he wouldn't wear a dress.


"I will be wearing a suit," Garcia said, "but don't be fooled, deep down inside, I am a queen!"

Garcia, 18, spent most of his years at Fairfax openly gay and wanted to be part of the Los Angeles school's prom court -- but not as prom king. He felt that vying for prom queen would better suit his personality, so he decided to seek that crown, running against a handful of female classmates.

He said it started out as a bit of a stunt and challenge -- he wasn't sure the school would allow it. But his campaign for queen ended up being serious and sparking dialogue about gender roles on campus.

A few days before the dance and election, the contenders gave short speeches on why they deserved the crown.

NEXT

As summer vacation begins, 17 girls at Gloucester High School are expecting babies — more than four times the number of pregnancies the 1,200-student school had last year. Some adults dismissed the statistic as a blip. Others blamed hit movies like Juno and Knocked Up for glamorizing young unwed mothers. But principal Joseph Sullivan knows at least part of the reason there's been such a spike in teen pregnancies in this Massachusetts fishing town. School officials started looking into the matter as early as October, after an unusual number of girls began filing into the school clinic to find out if they were pregnant. By May, several students had returned multiple times to get pregnancy tests, and on hearing the results, "some girls seemed more upset when they weren't pregnant than when they were," Sullivan says. All it took was a few simple questions before nearly half the expecting students, none older than 16, confessed to making a pact to get pregnant and raise their babies together. Then the story got worse. "We found out one of the fathers is a 24-year-old homeless guy," the principal says, shaking his head. www.time.com...


As for the case in Milwaukee?

I dunno YOU TELL ME I mean wasnt it YOU who said they lost their JOBS? That is why I said it was what was THEY (not a judge) but THEY DECIDED!



Publication:APD - West Bend Daily News; Date:May 19, 2009; Section:Front Page; Page Number:A1


Vote on library board stands
Council rebuffs appeal to reverse rejection of board members
By DWAYNE BUTLER Daily News Staff



The West Bend Common Council rejected a request to rescind the council's refusal to endorse Mayor Kristine Deiss' recommendation to reappoint four library board members who were removed last month.

Alderman Nick Dobberstein brought the request to the attention of the council during the regular monthly meeting at City Hall on Monday night. The vote was 5-2 with one council member abstaining.

Voting against Dobberstein's request were aldermen Tony Turner, Steve Hutchins, Allen Carter, Terry Vrana and Michael Schlotfeldt.

Voting in favor were Dobberstein and Roger Kist.

Lindbeck cited being out of town the last month and what he termed as "personal reasons" for his decision to abstain from voting.

The vote follows one that was taken on April 21 that resulted in a 5-3 decision not to approve Deiss' recommendation to reappoint Library Board members Tom Fitz, Mary Reilly-Kliss, James Pouros and Dobberstein to three-year terms. The council was upset with the committee's handling of a citizen's call to restrict sexually-explicit books in the listing of recommended reading for teenagers.

Vrana, Turner, Hutchins, Lindbeck and Carter opposed the four reappointments on April 21. Voting for the appointments were Dobberstein, Schlotfeldt and Kist.

Schlofeldt offered no public comment to the audience members for changing his mind, except to say that he phoned Dobberstein with his decision and didn't want to discuss the conversation publicly.

That prompted a group of about 15 members from the grassroots organization, West Bend Parents for Free Speech, to approach Schlofeldt at the bench following the conclusion of the meeting and angrily voice their displeasure.

Founder Maria Hanrahan said she was not only surprised by Schlofeldt's "no" vote but was "disappointed that alderman Lindbeck abstained from voting."

"We were really hoping that he would change his vote and perhaps one other alderman would change their vote but obviously that did not happen," Hanrahan said.

Dobberstein shared with the council and the audience why he felt the removed members of the library board was worthy of reappointing. Despite offering as many as 10 reasons why, there was little discussion by the council members leading up to the vote.



Jesus did die a horific Death at the hands of minds like yours who reject his word at their own peril while thinking all that great education you got and and all that torure and suffering and stoning you survived at the hands of us evil Christians will be your cross to bear for even suggesting such a comparison be made. Do you think you are being clever ?

Here let me help you with the math.

Jesus died a horific death while not killing anyone least of all the innocent baby's and was found NOT Guilty and was punished and murdered shedding the guilt of the worlds sin for those he died for so that we would not have to reap what we have sewn.

He got what WE deserved including that baby killing doctor and his killer

Capeche?

[edit on 6/16/2009 by UltraAgentGirl]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by The All Seeing I

Science has confirmed that homosexuality is determined by nature not nurture. So therefore introducing youth to stories that show empathy and compassion towards our fellow gay brothers and lesbian sisters is a progressive step away from ignorance, fear and hatred.






Science has confirmed that homosexuality is determined by nature not nurture


Proof?

I got mine so I guess they got a lot of explaining to do when they find the rape gene and the pedophile gene or the adultery gene.

I have even heard atheists suggesting the God gene.

But what does Science say:



The human X and Y chromosomes (the two “sex” chromosomes) have been completely sequenced. Thanks to work carried out by labs all across the globe, we know that the X chromosome contains 153 million base pairs, and harbors a total of 1168 genes (see NCBI, 2004). The National Center for Biotechnology Information reports that the Y chromosome—which is much smaller—contains “only” 50 million base pairs, and is estimated to contain a mere 251 genes. Educational institutions such as Baylor University, the Max Planck Institute, the Sanger Institute, Washington University in St. Louis, and others have spent countless hours and millions of research dollars analyzing these unique chromosomes. As the data began to pour in, they allowed scientists to construct gene maps—using actual sequences from the Human Genome Project. And yet, neither the map for the X nor the Y chromosome contains any “gay gene.”

What is the truth regarding homosexuality? Too often, speculation, emotions, and politics play a major role in its assessment. The following is a scientific investigation of human homosexuality.

READ THIS CONCLUSIVE PROOF NO GAY GENE PERIOD!
www.apologeticspress.org...


Great article and it confirms gays are not genetically predisposed to their depravity. It isnt a life style it is a choice and they are NOT to be defined as blacks or race in some civil rights coat tail attempt. They want to be defined by their sexual bent? Fine but that ain't none of our business and I wish they would keep it out of our faces and out of our schools.


www.apologeticspress.org...


[edit on 6/16/2009 by UltraAgentGirl]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 07:48 AM
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Hmmm I'm homophobic and proud and I wouldn't beat up a gay. Why do people need to file for the "Right to burn a book?". Seems like they already have that right. Am I slow? Are they out to burn all copies? If it's published how can they do that? If it's stop publishing, who can give then the right to do that? Free press is pretty fundamental. They might sue for damages in civil court but so what? Good for them? Gays and whoever else jump on the trivial "I'm offended" lawsuit so why not those people? They can be as offended as anyone, so what? That's the way the stupid system is dysfunctional working today.

PS - I'm out of the closet! I've admitted it. "I'm homophobic and proud!" No longer can the gays repress my freedom or try to rob me of my dignity. I'm a person too. I have feelings. I need to be loved too! Just because I'm homophobic doesn't mean I don't need to be loved. I'm also MacTruckAphobic, AtomicBombAphobic, AnthraxAphobic, oh my god, I've got lots of phobics and I'm proud of all of them. Thank you gay lobby for helping me come to terms with who I am and how I am. "I'm homophobic and proud!"



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl
Proof?

Articles by the American Association for the Advancement of Science
www.sciencemag.org...


I got mine ...
www.apologeticspress.org...

Yes i see... an article written by a Christian theologian for a religious based pseudo-science organization.

In summary; you can't 'make' someone gay no more than you can 'make' someone straight. In your scripturally filtered myopic view of reality you see it as a choice that can be stop... and at best as if it were a disease that could be cured. This is a road to nowhere. Objectively understanding the true origin of sexual orientation, will remove you from being an obstacle to people's true understanding of themselves and their place in the world.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by The All Seeing I]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 09:02 AM
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Im a christian but what their doing is plain stupidity



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by The All Seeing I

Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl
Proof?

Articles by the American Association for the Advancement of Science
www.sciencemag.org...


I got mine ...
www.apologeticspress.org...

Yes i see... an article written by a Christian theologian for a religious based pseudo-science organization.

In summary; you can't 'make' someone gay no more than you can 'make' someone straight. In your scripturally filtered myopic view of reality you see it as a choice that can be stop... and at best as if it were a disease that could be cured. This is a road to nowhere. Objectively understanding the true origin of sexual orientation, will remove you from being an obstacle to people's true understanding of themselves and their place in the world.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by The All Seeing I]


You're a funny guy, saying that, those lowley "theologians" as you call them in your transparent method to undermine their Doctrates and their PHD's in the stuck up halls of todays atheist guarded and run monopoly where the mere mention of any theology based upbringining has ruined the careers of so many be the very prejudice you display in your intolerant dissemination of all your biased posts and threads, are just as credible as any of those in science of biology who depend on numerous frauds and hoax's from glueing feathers to lizards calling it a transitional form to those who continue to this day to publish ernst haekels tweaked embryos in our public schools text books inspite of their being busted .

in spite of the United States Congress finding them guilty of this very kind of discrimination.


Having said that, I give YOU the following list of academic authorities from genome to hormone, of gay and straight scientists alike atheist and theologin, that corroborates the FACT,

that their ain't no such thing

as a gay gene


REFERENCES
American Psychiatric Association (2000), Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, (Washington D.C.: American Psychiatric Association), fourth edition, text revision.

Bailey, Michael J., and Richard C. Pillard (1991), “A Genetic Study of Male Sexual Orientation,” Archives of General Psychiatry, 48:1089-1096, December.

Bailey, Michael J. and D.S. Benishay (1993), “Familial Aggregation of Female Sexual Orientation,” American Journal of Psychiatry, 150[2]:272-277.

Baron M. (1993), “Genetics and Human Sexual Orientation [Editorial],” Biological Psychiatry, 33:759-761.

Billings, P. and J. Beckwith (1993), Technology Review, July, p. 60.

Bower, B. (1992), “Gene Influence Tied to Sexual Orientation,” Science News, 141[1]:6, January 4.

Byne, William (1994), “The Biological Evidence Challenged,” Scientific American, 270[5]:50-55, May.

Byne, William and Bruce Parsons (1993), “Human Sexual Orientation,” Archives of General Psychiatry, 50:228-239, March.

Byrd, A. Dean, Shirley E. Cox, and Jeffrey W. Robinson (2001), “Homosexuality: The Innate-Immutability Argument Finds No Basis in Science,” The Salt Lake Tribune, [On-line] URL: www.sltrib.com...

Crewdson, John (1995), “Dean Hamer’s Argument for the Existence of ‘Gay Genes,’ ” Chicago Tribune, News Section, p. 11, June 25.

Fausto-Sterling, Anne and Evan Balaban (1993), “Genetics and Male Sexual Orientation,” [technical-comment letter to the editor], Science, 261:1257, September 3.

Friedman, Richard C. and Jennifer I. Downey (1994), “Homosexuality,” The New England Journal of Medicine, 331[14]:923-930, October 6.

Gelman, David, with Donna Foote, Todd Barrett, and Mary Talbot (1992), “Born or Bred?,” Newsweek, pp. 46-53, February 24.

Goetze, Rob (2004), “Homosexuality and the Possibility of Change: An Ongoing Research Project,” [On-line], URL: www.newdirection.ca...

[edit on 6/16/2009 by UltraAgentGirl]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by UltraAgentGirl
 





I see another trend in society rapsthebats and it is one where atheist's mingle together just to piss people off and spread ignorance about a book they invariably don't understand and THINK they do.


Hey dude,you know that's kinda not unlike many many many xtians of many many many flavours all proselytizing in relation to books they invariably don't understand but "INSIST" that they do and no one else does.
The irony is somewhat ironic.



I'm sorry, I am not familiar with "xtians" dude, and I am not proselytizing to you am I? Have you seen me make any effort at all to talk someone into "being saved" ? No you have not




Didn't imply you were proselytizing to me, I clearly said many many.

My response was to your claim of atheists spreading ignorance about books they don't understand.

Once again, in simple terms so we don't misunderstand each other.

Understanding bibles is subjective, for example The encyclopedia America once described the trinity (apparently derived from bibles) as "beyond human comprehension".

It goes without saying that ,as there as so many types of the xtian cult, that each sect has a differing view of bible scripture.

This obviously implies that each sect has a different understanding of the scriptures. If your accusation in relation to atheists "spreading ignorance is true" then it must be equally as true for believers, in that they are ignorant of the meaning claimed by those of a different sect/denomination.

I would however point out that many atheists who proselytize from their corner have taken the trouble to read a whole bible.

It is interesting to note that a huge chunk of bible believers have never actually read a whole bible, many of whom spend a lifetime proselytizing.

Needless to say given your zeal at condemning "Ignorant" atheists I would expect you to be able swear to your yahwehjesus god that you have read an entire bible.

Of course you have it's a message from god himself to you, I mean who wouldn't your afterlife depends on you understanding what god has to say. I bet you read several types of bible cover to cover, several times over the years, after all why read anything else when there is gods message to read.

It's such a shame though, that so many bible defenders have not bothered to read all of what god has to say, obviously they don't believe it's written or inspired by jesusyahweh, but still spread their ignorance regardless.



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by UltraAgentGirl
 


Yes you showed how in an era of intolerance of homosexuality that stigma causes perversion...

This is true with anything... anytime a natural process is deemed unnatural it causes conflict within the individual which leads to perversions you mention....

How about the number of deaths caused by prohibition? But once it was legalized and accepted those crime related deaths dropped like a hot rock!


Have you seen the amount of Christians who do these same things?

How about all of those Catholic Priests who molested thousands of little boys? Should we assume that being a Catholic Clergy makes you a pedophile?


Also what about the Homosexuals who have SAVED your butt? Like Alan Turing

And the Sistine Chapel? Painted by a homosexual....


Oh yeah... btw... the other stuff you were spouting about a court case being closed and decided and lost...

Well scroll back a page and you will see that you were wrong on that as well...

But then again, for someone who believes in morality based on a fairy tale from an ancient tribe... I guess that's par for the course.







[edit on 16-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]

[edit on 16-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 12:36 PM
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Reply to UltraAgentGirl

Since you went to an effort to include a link to two of the articles you have listed, i assumed these were your most esteemed/respected picks for me to explore... so here is my stab at the first highlighted:

A. Dean Byrd, Shirley Cox, Jeffrey W. Robinson, “The Innate-Immutable Argument Finds No Basis in Science: In Their Own Words: Gay Activists Speak About Science, Morality, Philosophy,” 2001

For starters looking at the principle writer, there is an immediate conflict of interest and fundamental bias. A. Dean Byrd, PhD, MBA is the past-president of the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality. The second red-flag is his commentary on out-dated cherry-picked studies and speculations. 3rd he writes articles for Ensign, the official magazine of the Church of Latter-day Saints and for the Foundation for Apologetic Information & Research on how to reprogram gays to being straight... and is a member of the Board of Trustees for Evergreen, an ex-gay organization catering to Latter-day Saints. Noting his active application of his MBA in perverting his use of his PhD, i can see he has improved this snake-oil business niche's bottom-line with every misguided lecture and article.

You need to become educated about what the current behavioral sciences say about sexual orientation, to understand NARTH is a fraudulent healthcare service. For me to take the time and effort to respond to the ‘flakiness’ of this organizations ignorant narrow-minded spin would be foolish at best, brain-dead at worst.

For the most accurate up-to-date peer-endorsed research regarding sexual orientation, i recommend getting your facts straight from the authority on such matters... the American Psychological Association, and in particular, their Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Concerns page, Guidelines for Psychotherapy with Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Clients, and Division 44, also known as the Society for the Psychological Study of Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Issues.


[edit on 16-6-2009 by The All Seeing I]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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Science has confirmed that homosexuality is determined by nature not nurture. So therefore introducing youth to stories that show empathy and compassion towards our fellow gay brothers and lesbian sisters is a progressive step away from ignorance, fear and hatred.


Please do provide us who are a tad sceptical with some of this scientific confirmation. You will find that no scientific study has ever conclusively acknowledged that sexual preference is determined by genes alone. The studies that mention a "genetic factor" usually tie it in with several other factors, almost always of which is experience and upbringing, or the absence of a parent of the opposite gender to the child.

I agree that people should be taught to tolerate and more importantly RESPECT other people that are different to them. I find it nonsensical to apply this special treatment exclusively to the gay and lesbian community at the expense of other forms of being different.


You need to discard some of your old spoon feed classifications of what constitutes a sin. For gays aren't hurting anyone by acknowledging and accepting who they are.


I do not consider homosexuality a sin and I do not think homosexual individuals are evil. However, I do not support their lifestyle and do not wish for my children, or my children's children to be influenced in this way. What you do in your own home is private and your business. Just don't promote the ideas you feel are natural and acceptable down my kids throat and I won't return the favour.


Have suddenly decided? We have a progressive party in rule now, they are only trying to do the right thing, while the iron is hot.


Hmm, I'm not sure changing the definition of an X-thousand year old tradition to satisfy a minority is the right thing. Two members of the same sex cannot create offspring naturally, that is a fact. So why should the taxpayer be expected to fund benefits for these unions?


...and the gay community could say the hetero agenda has been shoved down theirs. You know the world doesn't solely revolve around us heteros?


The majority of the world's population are heterosexuals. That is a fact. Also, heterosexuals do not organise "hetero" parades or emphasise their heterosexuality in order to receive attention and fame in the entertainment industry. What makes you think the world revolves around heteros? I can say the world only revolves around the normally aided? What about the differently abled (AKA disabled) citizens?


See now this is the same reactionary alarmist paranoia i was referring to just a couple posts ago. It is this exact position that gives us all good reason to be worried, for while you are distracted by this non-issue, real issues are not getting addressed.


You are right on this one. But was your creation of this thread really to do with getting people to focus on important issues, or was it to more to do with your desire to demonise the Christian population as a whole? Perhaps changing the wording of this thread to "Extremist Christians" would have been a more honest and non-provocative approach?

[edit on 16/6/2009 by Dark Ghost]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 





What you do in your own home is private and your business. Just don't promote the ideas you feel are natural and acceptable down my kids throat and I won't return the favour.


Totally agree with you here dude, I have the same attitude toward xtianity being forced down my childrens' throats at school.

We gotta make a stand against these deluded xtians and these homosexuals.

Well the xtians at least, no homosexual has infiltrated the school and started pushing their belief that being homosexual is how they must live or burn in hell, down my kids throats yet.

But god damned you homosexuals, if you ever try and make my kids gay I'll ,I'll, I'll



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl
You ain't talking to some Christian who just got off the Church's bus ride for the Homeless and I see right through your veil of fear and what you fear is God and I got to tell you, after what you have suggested here, it is YOUR face I would like to see when the Lord asks you the same question.



Sorry, thats as far as I got before I started laughing.

I think publishers should start putting little Jesus Fish stamps on books that are reviewed and approved by some kind of religious group. Then the very conservative religious people can be free from the terror of none faith comforming books.

Mindblowing, I know.


Seriously though, I find the bible itself offensive, it has caused mayhame across history and continues too to this day. What the bleep differnece would it make if I burnt it? None, notta, nothing! Its pointless. It would simply cause discord amongst people and achieve only negative results.

The fact that this is being debated proves that it is the religious population who is intolorent and bigoted, because this thread wouldn't even exist without religion. I base this statement entirely on the fact that its only people of faith or extremists who have a problem with the gay issue. The rest of us simply don't care because we realise it truly affects nothing, the worlds overpopulated so the old procreation arguement is beyond stupid these days.



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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After reading all of this thread, I cannot believe the level of hate and intolerance here. I always thought ATS was above all this, but I guess the reality is there are still ass backwards, paranoid, homophobic, backwoods, alpha male, hillbilly, uneducated, captin of the football team in highschool, good god fearing christians.

How dare you subscribe to a website whose motto is "Deny Ignorance", when some of the things read here are clearly some of the most ignorant and intollerant ever. I hope if you have kids they turn out gay, just so your forced to see the truth, that they are people just like us who deserve the same respect, privacy and dignity as anyone else. Loved the comment about the gay agenda being stuffed down everyones throat, hypocrite much???



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman

Once again, in simple terms so we don't misunderstand each other.

Understanding bibles is subjective, for example The encyclopedia America once described the trinity (apparently derived from bibles) as "beyond human comprehension".



Infinity is beyond our human comprehension but most people still believe and think they understand such a concept.



It goes without saying that ,as there as so many types of the xtian cult, that each sect has a differing view of bible scripture.This obviously implies that each sect has a different understanding of the scriptures. If your accusation in relation to atheists "spreading ignorance is true" then it must be equally as true for believers, in that they are ignorant of the meaning claimed by those of a different sect/denomination.




Let me ask you something, of the two statments given below

1. moocowman is a rich woman.

2. moocowman is a poor woman

If you were to hear two people say this about moocowman, one says the first thing about you, the second says another, OR if you, just by reading the two statements, would you consider it a contradiction with the two different people citing the two statments or would you consider them a contradiction just reading the two statements yourself, or are both scenarios a contradiction?



I would however point out that many atheists who proselytize from their corner have taken the trouble to read a whole bible.


That's interesting, and why would so many people who have no beliefe in a deity, and invariably disparage the faithful having the majority of websites that do nothing but criticize the Christian faith. What kind of objective and honest research, do you think they arrive at and what would their intent be? To learn? or to Affirm? their own active disbelief



It is interesting to note that a huge chunk of bible believers have never actually read a whole bible, many of whom spend a lifetime proselytizing.


Sounds a lot like todays Scientists



Needless to say given your zeal at condemning "Ignorant" atheists I would expect you to be able swear to your yahwehjesus god that you have read an entire bible.


All 66 books 7 times and it takes me 90 hours to read cover to cover



Of course you have it's a message from god himself to you, I mean who wouldn't your afterlife depends on you understanding what god has to say. I bet you read several types of bible cover to cover, several times over the years, after all why read anything else when there is gods message to read
.

The ICHING, Tantra, maps of conciencousness, Dianetics and the eighth dynamic. The latin Vulgate, King James, NT, the book of enoch and giglimesh, Strongs concordance the hebrew lexicon aramaic and greek. I also hold a degree in Communications covering conflict resolution, interpersonal and public speaking and have a teaching degree



It's such a shame though, that so many bible defenders have not bothered to read all of what god has to say, obviously they don't believe it's written or inspired by jesusyahweh, but still spread their ignorance regardless.


Perhaps you feel that way because you never get to really know what they can teach you when you say things like "still spread their ignorance regardless." they realize you are an antagonist just as I have and like them, will not give children of the grave the time of day.

I learned : Never argue with the willfully ignorant, they will pull you down to their level, then beat you with experience


Cheers


[edit on 6/16/2009 by UltraAgentGirl]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

Sorry, thats as far as I got before I started laughing.

I think publishers should start putting little Jesus Fish stamps on books that are reviewed and approved by some kind of religious group. Then the very conservative religious people can be free from the terror of none faith comforming books.

Mindblowing, I know.


Seriously though, I find the bible itself offensive, it has caused mayhame across history and continues too to this day. What the bleep differnece would it make if I burnt it? None, notta, nothing! Its pointless. It would simply cause discord amongst people and achieve only negative results.

The fact that this is being debated proves that it is the religious population who is intolorent and bigoted, because this thread wouldn't even exist without religion. I base this statement entirely on the fact that its only people of faith or extremists who have a problem with the gay issue. The rest of us simply don't care because we realise it truly affects nothing, the worlds overpopulated so the old procreation arguement is beyond stupid these days.


This thread exists NOT because the Bible does but because Christaphobic intolerant bibliobigots like the op and yourself are too impressed and too fond of your own ignorant opinions and if you think I said anything funny, at least you got a chuckle. All your post manifested in me is pity for you



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by UltraAgentGirl
 





Is THAT what you believe?? “looked upon Jesus and loved Him,” there is no suggestion in the text that this was an erotic love. It is not uncommon to read of Jesus loving others both men and women.



The young man looked at him intently and loved him; and he began pleading with him that he might be with him. When they came out of the tomb they went to the young man's house, for he was wealthy.

And after six days Jesus gave him a command. And when it was evening the young man came to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. He stayed with him that night, for Jesus was teaching him the mystery of the Kingdom of God. When he got up from there, he returned to the other side of the Jordan.


Ok so he was bisexual then? but he was clearly having some sort of romp with what appears to be a rent boy by the description.

Come on dude wise up, Michael Jackson had a similar issue did he not ? Now then what jesus jackson do with men is their/his own business. But when someone professing to be not just a god but "yahweh incarnate" bunks down with a naked young man. It is a fair assumption that any oils used were not for anointing.

You were not there yourself so you and no one else cannot actually know what happened (bearing in mind the jusry is still out on the actual existence of the god yahweh in the guise of jesus) so one can only look at the circumstances.

What conclusion would a jury of 12 come to based on what they have been told ?

Of course, its obvious " The Son of girlyman"








posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 04:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
Reply to UltraAgentGirl

Since you went to an effort to include a link to two of the articles you have listed, i assumed these were your most esteemed/respected picks for me to explore... so here is my stab at the first highlighted:

A. Dean Byrd, Shirley Cox, Jeffrey W. Robinson, “The Innate-Immutable Argument Finds No Basis in Science: In Their Own Words: Gay Activists Speak About Science, Morality, Philosophy,” 2001

For starters looking at the principle writer, there is an immediate conflict of interest and fundamental bias. A. Dean Byrd, PhD, MBA is the past-president of the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality. The second red-flag is his commentary on out-dated cherry-picked studies and speculations. 3rd he writes articles for Ensign, the official magazine of the Church of Latter-day Saints and for the Foundation for Apologetic Information & Research on how to reprogram gays to being straight... and is a member of the Board of Trustees for Evergreen, an ex-gay organization catering to Latter-day Saints. Noting his active application of his MBA in perverting his use of his PhD, i can see he has improved this snake-oil business niche's bottom-line with every misguided lecture and article.

You need to become educated about what the current behavioral sciences say about sexual orientation, to understand NARTH is a fraudulent healthcare service. For me to take the time and effort to respond to the ‘flakiness’ of this organizations ignorant narrow-minded spin would be foolish at best, brain-dead at worst.

For the most accurate up-to-date peer-endorsed research regarding sexual orientation, i recommend getting your facts straight from the authority on such matters... the American Psychological Association, and in particular, their Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Concerns page, Guidelines for Psychotherapy with Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Clients, and Division 44, also known as the Society for the Psychological Study of Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Issues.


[edit on 16-6-2009 by The All Seeing I]

Ill remember these logical fallacys you have given to discount the numerous studies offered in my list which were validated bu the most widely accepted academic research in the nation.

I see that all these men of science, many of whom are Gay, that ALL of them are doing all this JUST to piss you off?

All these peer reviewed studies by these men of science are all just being intolerant and bigoted huh! That the identical twins having the same DNA where one was gay, the other was not, are all paid actors of the conspiracy to hold the homosexuals back from having their freak on with the twink they met on the clay aiken forum without any guilt whatsoever.

Whats next? The pedophile gene? I mean if you are going to attribute sexual orientation making it a bonafide class distinction, I guess they can't help what they are either and we should all "tolerate" that too?

No chum, sorry your sources all have cooties diatribe ain't werkin

Their is NO gay Gene



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman


The young man looked at him intently and loved him; and he began pleading with him that he might be with him. When they came out of the tomb they went to the young man's house, for he was wealthy.





You were not there yourself so you and no one else cannot actually know what happened (bearing in mind the jusry is still out on the actual existence of the god yahweh in the guise of jesus) so one can only look at the circumstances.


Is this how Dawkins justifies what kind of fish became "something like an amphibian 400 million years ago" because he was there to see it?

No, and like you, this is the most obvious case of spreading ignorance.
But giving you the benefit of the doubt, I see nowhere in that passage saying anyone was having sex. Now, can you show me the Book and passage of the Bible that comes from? I have checked all of these and seems nothing comes up ?bibleq.com...

So I wasn't there so that means its ok to "toss it in there"?



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
I think publishers should start putting little Jesus Fish stamps on books that are reviewed and approved by some kind of religious group. Then the very conservative religious people can be free from the terror of none faith comforming books.
...
Seriously though, I find the bible itself offensive, it has caused mayhame across history and continues too to this day. What the bleep differnece would it make if I burnt it? None, notta, nothing! Its pointless. It would simply cause discord amongst people and achieve only negative results.


Actually you bring up a very valid and workable point, which i think we should seriously consider. We put warning labels on all potentially hazardous substances, why should those sources that have proven to be the most dangerous of all, be exempt from labeling?





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