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Christians sue for right to burn gay teen novel

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posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl
Ill post this to the both of you, Honka and Intrepid whom I am happy to see I have given the comical relief he seems so willing to display.

Yes ACADEMIC, in other words, how much of a study do we have to make this? Look a few parents saw a librarian who was re-miss in her responsibility to place books THEY thought were inappropriate for the age group that had access to them under the current obscenity laws and kindly suggested the librarian put them in the adult section.



So was it the sexual nature of these books or just that they had homosexual themes?

Because unless they had issues with the heterosexual books in the same section with the same level of sexual context, then I'm on the side of the Librarian.

And yes, I would expect Lesbians to stand up for their civil rights as much as Christians stand up for theirs.


I go back to my original question... what this an issue of indecency or an issue of homosexuality?

As I mentioned... the Sweet Valley High books littered my young adult section when I was in High School... and it's mostly about life in highschool, boyfriends, girlfriends, drama etc... nothing real explicit but very age appropriate for teens...

As is homosexuality in the same context....

Also.. I as I recall the article stated their reasons were...

"The group claimed the novel is "explicitly vulgar, and anti-Christian"."

Anti-Christian doesn't mean squat though from a legal standpoint....


[edit on 15-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]




posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl
Ill post this to the both of you, Honka and Intrepid whom I am happy to see I have given the comical relief he seems so willing to display.

Yes ACADEMIC, in other words, how much of a study do we have to make this? Look a few parents saw a librarian who was re-miss in her responsibility to place books THEY thought were inappropriate for the age group that had access to them under the current obscenity laws and kindly suggested the librarian put them in the adult section.



So was it the sexual nature of these books or just that they had homosexual themes?

Because unless they had issues with the heterosexual books in the same section with the same level of sexual context, then I'm on the side of the Librarian.

And yes, I would expect Lesbians to stand up for their civil rights as much as Christians stand up for theirs.


I go back to my original question... what this an issue of indecency or an issue of homosexuality?




Maybe you need to read my last post again since I edited it.

The last two words define my interest in furthering the kicking of dead horses.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 06:08 PM
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I did... now read mine as I updated it as well..

Oh well here it is...

The reasons for having the book removed were..

The group claimed the novel is "explicitly vulgar, and anti-Christian".


What does anti-anyrelgion have to do with Public affairs?



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl
CASE CLOSED:


Nope. If I was an American I would "appeal". I want the right to teach my kids as I see fit. Not some religious people living in the '50's.

Edit: To add: I said you have the right to raise your kids the way you want. Are you begrudging me the same?

[edit on 15-6-2009 by intrepid]



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 06:10 PM
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For the record.. here is the writeup about this book...



Grade 10 Up. A prequel to the popular books about Weetzie Bat and her circle of quirky friends and relatives. This novel is about her best pal, Dirk, in his pre-Weetzie days. He's in high school (in L.A., of course), living with Grandma Fifi and struggling with how to come out to his best friend and soulmate. Although Dirk never does tell Pup he's gay, Pup feels the sexual tension between them: "'I love you, Dirk,' Pup said. 'But I can't handle it.'" In reaction, Dirk takes to slam dancing in punk joints. When a gang of gay bashers beats him up, he drags himself home and passes out. While he's unconscious, long-dead relatives he's never known come to him in what seem to be dreams; when he wakes in the hospital, he realizes that his grandmother has been telling him stories. Out of her comforting words about how others in his family have insisted on being themselves, his battered brain fashions hopeful hallucinations, including one of his future lover. His visions assure him that "There was love waiting; love would come." Block writes distinctively and convincingly, interweaving the hallucination scenes smoothly. She makes the power of stories felt?and here, more purposefully than ever before, she weaves a safety net of words for readers longing to feel at home with themselves. Gay teens in particular need this book. All fans of the series will relish meeting nice-guy Dirk as the tender Baby Be-Bop.?Claudia Morrow, Berkeley Public Library, CA




posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by The All Seeing I
. . .
These are the same zealots that have plagued us for centuries and they are the same zealots who want the government to censor the internet and who have been actively pestering our mods to censor everyone here. Don't forget what they did to the Dixie Chicks and anyone else who dared to speak out against the war... and these are the same closeted zealots here who advocate to stick our heads in the sand or up our own dairyaires*.

www.examiner.com

*derrières


You have done a great job creating a thread which has demonstrated the pathetic insanity of those who force their religious views on the community.

They have forced four people out of their positions and and want to remove three books about gays from the library and burn them.
Suddenly it doesn't seem so long ago that Christians were burning gays and witches, and slaughtering Jews, Muslims and Cathars.

It's sad that people can believe in a god who rewards fear, hatred and intolerance, closed-mindedness and interference in the lives of others.
Can you imagine the looks on these peoples' faces if they arrived at Heaven and discovered Jesus was gay? And then heard the words, "Inasmuch as you did for(to) the least of these my brethren, you did also unto me"?

The Gospel of St Thomas has been said to indicate Jesus had a homosexual relationship.

The Bible tells us Jesus taught to humble oneself to even wash the hands and feet of others, in a time when touching a fellow Jew's feet was taboo because feet were regarded as filthy. He taught to turn the other cheek. He taught blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. He taught to refrain from criticising others and instead remove the "plank" from one's own eye. He even mended the ear of a Centurion, despite knowing the Centurion was taking him to his death.

Yet so many Christians over the ages have ignored the teachings of their Christ, preferring to wallow in the bloodthirsty anger of Yahweh, the genocidal, misogynistic, child-killing tyrant of the Old Testament.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I did... now read mine as I updated it as well..

Oh well here it is...

The reasons for having the book removed were..

The group claimed the novel is "explicitly vulgar, and anti-Christian".


What does anti-anyrelgion have to do with Public affairs?


Look Honka! do I have to spell it out for you??


This has got NOTHING to do with me NOR does it have anything to do with YOU! What either I think OR YOU think, has any bearing on the threads central topic. This was not only what they "Claimed" to be the case, it was what they D-E-C-I-D-E-D in the C-A-S-E!

If you got any problems with that, talk to a lawyer, Judge or start your own lawsuit.

I have already seen too many of your mis-informed posts about constitutional law and have NO interest in correcting you and I have already heard what I have to say and I can assure you,,

YOU won't Agree!

DONE.




[edit on 6/15/2009 by UltraAgentGirl]



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl
CASE CLOSED:


Nope. If I was an American I would "appeal". I want the right to teach my kids as I see fit. Not some religious people living in the '50's.

Edit: To add: I said you have the right to raise your kids the way you want. Are you begrudging me the same?

[edit on 15-6-2009 by intrepid]


Intrepid, how does it work that someone living in the 50's is here in the year 2009 teaching moreover where does it say anyone was trying to take away your rights to teach your kids as you see fit? All I see saw was some good parenting for a change and they had no interest in teaching your kids a thing so buy all the gay material for your kids to read as YOU see fit and as you judge them to be appropriate for their age. I simply think that is exactly what these parents were trying to do also.

Am I begrudging you the same?

mmmm I think you are Daring me OR you are angry and i no longer will participate you being a super moderator and all. The timidity in which it seems I am being compelled to compromise my posts with, will not represent my most candid opinion.

Americans can and Often DO appeal here to but until that happens

it is what it is.

sorry to upset you



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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Being a former 911 dispatcher, seems to me that the only way they can legally burn books in most cites is by obtaining permission to do so since material like books, papers, and other 'man made' things are prohibited most places. As for the damages to the eldery who most likely didn't even read the book, I bet the lawyers are getting paid no matter how far the law suit goes, so they're in it for the money.

Someone may have already mentioned all this, but after two pages, I got bored reading. I'm not going to convince the christians that a church that preaches love and then tortured people to convert or convince them of their errors is contradictory. Nor am I going to convince them that a race who was given free will has had it removed from them by the church if they have to follow their teaching to be a members and not suffer the fires of hell.

Of all the religions I've researched, the two general things that is at the base of all of them it to love everyone and serve each other.

Others will blast me for my beliefs, but doesn't the bible say something about being hated be man for my belief in my god? So be it.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Tentickles
First of all, why did they read this book?
Secondly, free speech!

Thirdly .. why do they need permission to burn a book?

They can go to the store .. buy a copy .. and burn it.

Or is the library copy they want to burn? In that case, they take the book out with their library card .. burn it .. then tell the library they cant' return the book but instead pay the fee that is imposed when people cant' return books.

So what's the big deal with them 'getting permission'???

Sounds like they want attention.


Very good question. Under the new hate crimes legislation I believe this would constitute a hate crime. Soon reading the Bible will be a hate crime and christians and pastors will be arrested as has happened in Canada and Europe.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by The All Seeing I


Obviously this lawsuit is a crap-shoot and is likely to go no where... simply an attempt to terrorize/bully writers of this genre niche and push their narrow-minded values. As a publicity stunt i can only see this backfiring, sales of this book are likely to increase as a result and i fail to see how parading one's ignorance and hypersensitivity in the form of homophobia and bigotry in front of the rational secular world is going to benefit your childish cry baby cause.

These are the same zealots that have plagued us for centuries and they are the same zealots who want the government to censor the internet and who have been actively pestering our mods to censor everyone here. Don't forget what they did to the Dixie Chicks and anyone else who dared to speak out against the war... and these are the same closeted zealots here who advocate to stick our heads in the sand or up our own dairyaires.

www.examiner.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 15/6/2009 by Mirthful Me]


My brother is a homosexual and so was the best man at my wedding I love these guys, that said. The homsexual sex act has been branded as gay. The gay movement have ripped the colours of the rainbow out of the sky and used it to roll out the homosexual sex act into the hearts and minds of humanity. Keep it in the bedroon if you dont mind, we dont need to know what you get up to under a golden shower or in the public toilets of the world. I mean really. Do we???



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 07:55 PM
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Man should be with woman as is the law of nature, but above all God. I can say that. Denying homosexuality is free speech too.
[edit on 6/13/2009 by watchtheashes]


Soz i jst dont get this. I mean too start with we exist within the laws of nature and were made in gods image. So does that mean that god is 10% gay.
Also i had a dog once that was a bit of a pillow bitter and enjoyed the company of other male dogs. Is that the law of nature.
Cmon see the world you life in, you dont need some messed up book to see the truths in live. Look inside yourself, that soap dodging hippy dude Jesus said the same thing. Look inside yourelf to find the kingdom of heaven.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


It should be burned for the sheer sappiness of it alone. Noting any other reason doesn't do any justice to the book's horrible plot. "Just be yourself"
.

We need a book out there that gives the truth so everybody can just accept the way this group or that group will treat them:

"People hated you before you were born. There's nothing you can do about it and it really has nothing to do with you. The least you can do in your lifetime is provide them a valid reason."



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl
. . . So they took it to court to find out who was right and during the discovery phase of the investigation, it was discovered their had been what they called an an agenda by the librarian to promote gay material using library funds. Now I could care less who she does the wild thing with and personally I don't think anyone should even be classified by their sexual bent, but she was a lesbian and I got to say, isn't that "unUSUAL" ??
. . . .
The FACT is SHE LOST !

Whether YOU think this had anything to do with the numerous questioons and statements made here about me or those parents, or Christians in general, unless you are only for that the court decides when it suits you, or when it is only frivolous when it is about a Christian or a Parent or a Homosexual is MOOT.

She lost and THAT is all this was about.

CASE CLOSED:

You seem to be a little confused.

There has been no court case yet, only a board hearing.
At the board hearing it was decided to leave the books where they were, in the young adult section.


Young adult books won’t be moved or labeled

Barbara Deters, board president, pointed out that the library already separates books by age, young adult nonfiction is located with adult nonfiction on the second floor of the library and that all young adult books have a bright yellow label with the initials YA. Young adult fiction books also are 128 feet away from the sections of the library where children’s books are shelved.


As you have called me a Liberal and an Atheist in an obvious attempt to slander, despite me being neither, I'm certainly not taking your word for it that Mary Reilly-Kliss is a lesbian. Not that it would matter to anyone but you if she was. And none of the other three board members who have been stood down over this are lesbian, they are all male.

Besides, if you don't care about it, why bring it up?
Or make it up . . .

The trouble has arisen because a group of Christians cannot accept the ruling of the board, which was that the books should all stay where they are.

There is a fiction section on this board. If you are going to keep using your imagination to make up stories you may like to post them in there.



I said I was for MOVING it to an age appropriate area of the library because it was in violation of the obscenity laws for pornographic literature just like an X rated movie, some parents don't want that kind of thing being given a G rated mistake.

What nonsense. None of the 82 titles on the Maziarkas list of objectionable books are explicitly sexual, much less pornographic. What they do have in common is that most refer to homosexual romance.

As you have already noted, love does not equal sex. These books are about growing up and falling in love.

The books are appropriately housed where they have always been, in the adult and young adult section, which is nowhere near the children's section.





You believe the murdered abortion doctor deserved to be murdered.

I am a Christian, so what I think we deserve is hell, as for the Doctor, I can only say, by the grace of God, there go I. The fact he died a horific death tells me he reaped what he sewed and the proof of that is the way he died.

That is a truly shocking thing for a Christian to say.
You believe Jesus was tortured and died a horrific death, so it now follows that he must have been a terribly evil man.
Do you also believe that little children who are horribly murdered deserve what they get?
Did the Christian martyrs or Job deserve what they got?
Did the Jews murdered in the holocaust deserve it?

Or is it only the person you cast judgement on who deserves to be murdered?

By the way, it's "sowed".
Even if he did needlework in his spare time, it's a bit hard to reap that.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl
Yes yes yes and lets just have the Dept of health use illustrations and depictions of sex from Jugs Magazine in our public schools library and as you said, why stop there lets start having tax payers pay for sex change operations on four year olds like they do in Boston or hand out brocures during gay day saying jerking off with freinds is cool like those given by the Dept of Health in the state of Mass. Hell why stop there using your own tactic for debate. Lets just have students come to class naked.

If you want to take the sublime to the ridiculous then why stop there.


This quote is a perfect example of the same mentality these four modern day Christian crusaders have. When you take the grey matters of reality and adjust the contrast to the point that you see nothing but black and white... you are literally taking mole hills and turning them into mountains. This can only lead to such a reactionary paranoid alarmist position, the irrationalities of which make the rest of us question one's sanity.

If you want to talk in terms of 'sublime to the ridiculous', look no further then Christian inspired youth programs. Abstinence sex ed is a good example of such an unrealistic approach to the real world, one which backfired in more ways then one... where studies showed that virginity pledges lead to anal sex. For those who don't have access to RATS here's a direct link to the study abcnews.go.com... (note: this is not an exaggeration or fabrication like the many you have professed) As you can see, such extreme approaches yield "extreme" reactions.

Now how is it that heterosexual anal sex trumps homosexual anal sex, aren't they more or less the same?

[edit on 15-6-2009 by The All Seeing I]



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by The All Seeing I

Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl
Yes yes yes and lets just have the Dept of health use illustrations and depictions of sex from Jugs Magazine in our public schools library and as you said, why stop there lets start having tax payers pay for sex change operations on four year olds like they do in Boston or hand out brocures during gay day saying jerking off with freinds is cool like those given by the Dept of Health in the state of Mass. Hell why stop there using your own tactic for debate. Lets just have students come to class naked.

If you want to take the sublime to the ridiculous then why stop there.


This quote is a perfect example of the same mentality these four modern day Christian crusaders have. When you take the grey matters of reality and adjust the contrast to the point that you see nothing but black and white... you are literally taking mole hills and turning them into mountains. This can only lead to such a reactionary paranoid alarmist position, the irrationalities of which make the rest of us question one's sanity.

If you want to talk in terms of 'sublime to the ridiculous', look no further then Christian inspired youth programs. Abstinence sex ed is a good example of such an unrealistic approach to the real world, one which backfired in more ways then one... where studies showed that virginity pledges lead to anal sex. For those who don't have access to RATS here's a direct link to the study abcnews.go.com... (note: this is not an exaggeration or fabrication like the many you have professed) As you can see, such extreme approaches yield "extreme" reactions.

Now how is it that heterosexual anal sex trumps homosexual anal sex, aren't they more or less the same?

[edit on 15-6-2009 by The All Seeing I]





Now how is it that heterosexual anal sex trumps homosexual anal sex, aren't they more or less the same?


Not at all one demands flowers, dinner and a movie first and the other insists you don't tell her husband!



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl
This ENTIRE THREAD is so out of synch with the actual story it is ridiculous.

The idea the word Christians and book burning used in the comparison to book burning by the Nazi's is deplorable.

"The Christian Church was the only group that had stood up to Hitler. Albert Einstien, Time Magazine"


Kailassa has already done an excellent job of setting the record straight on the fallacy of this misquote.

Though i feel and think it is necessary to share a quote in turn that is not a fabrication... to help establish the fact that your ENTIRE POST and many others 'are so out of sync with reality that it is ridiculous'.



"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior
as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness,
surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for
what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who,
God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."

"In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read
through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in
His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the
brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against
the Jewish poison."

"Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I
recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was
for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross."

"As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be
cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and
justice..."

"And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we
are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as
a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look
on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at
the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness
and misery."

"When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in
their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I
would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for
them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn
against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and
exploited."


Adolph Hitler, in a speech delivered April 12, 1922
Published in "My New Order"



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by UltraAgentGirl
NO YOU ASSUMED they were Christians merely because the OP who suggests I have mistakenly taken this personally, makes it personal, and yes, I get defensive when I am being attacked. It isn't bad enough we see a career forum warrior who by just glancing at his posts, makes mocking Christians his lifes work.
...
His profile is so OBVIOUSLY about hate of Religious peoples, I won't even bother responding to his last post. Fanatics of any kind who act as pamphleteers stoking the fires of discord is just too much exercise.


I made no assumptions, these guys are OBVIOUSLY Christians... hell one of them is even a reverend for crying out loud.


I know kill the messenger, but i don't think pinning me as someone who has made 'mocking Christians his lifes work' an accurate portrait of my purpose here on ATS. Though if such a position exists and there is an opening please let me know.


As for my profile it is a collection of links and quotes i have run across in my research on many hot topics aka conversational taboos that i find ring true... if you bother to scroll through them all you can see that a fraction are on religion... same can be confirmed by a quick review of my past 100+ threads.



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by Kailassa
*derrières

Thank you for the correct spelling. It's French i see. Turns out that diaryaire has Wisconsin roots. So what i should have said, since these guys are from the cheese state, is that they have their heads up their dairyaires



It's sad that people can believe in a god who rewards fear, hatred and intolerance, closed-mindedness and interference in the lives of others.
Can you imagine the looks on these peoples' faces if they arrived at Heaven and discovered Jesus was gay? And then heard the words, "Inasmuch as you did for(to) the least of these my brethren, you did also unto me"?

The Gospel of St Thomas has been said to indicate Jesus had a homosexual relationship.

Interesting speculation to ponder, I can't see how such a man could have a hangup on plumbing, love is love... as for physical attraction that is a biological factor which if merely a philosopher he may have suppressed this urge to encourage his followers to focus more on his teachings then his love life. On the other hand if he was an intergalactic being from outer space, this would explain why his sexual orientation appears vacant and that he came into this world via a virgin birth.



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 01:59 AM
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The approach is a little odd, but since homosexual cultures end up under heavy judgment eventually, I'd prefer it if we could tone down the current paradigm of the radical homosexual evangelism of our youth. Just call it enlightened self interest. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't care much, since it's just another sin in a long list of sins that man often stumbles in to.

Actually it is a little odd that our so called elected leaders and appointed judges have suddenly decided that homo-marriage and all things homo are good. At least for now, this position is still somewhat unpopular based on polling numbers. Essentially the homo agenda is being shoved down our throats (no pun intended).

It is an undemocratic decision by corrupted elites. The question is why? How does it serve the elite agenda? I have to assume they deliberately desire the moral collapse of our society. They know exactly what they are doing.



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