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Gravy, the alleged tour guide

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posted on Jul, 8 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by ATH911

Originally posted by pccat
treason? whoa..

If 9/11 turns out to be an inside job and it's later found out that Gravy was employed by the CIA to help coverup the conspiracy, don't you think that would be a treasonable offense?
if it turns out that way then I would assume that it would fall into the generic treason catagory.. if..

he has compiled an incredible amount of statistics and facts regarding 911..
you should really look into them..

I'm still trying to find the facts that show most of Flight 93 buried itself. Please show me on his website where he presents those fact.
wtc7lies.googlepages.com...

character assassination is non productive at best..

But it's OK if he does it?
no.. in my mind it is not ok
I wish everyone would stop..



Btw, can you prove he makes his living as a tour guide?
not at this time.. the fact that he apparently has a lot of knowledge on 911 should not make one assume he is an intelligence asset.. it should make one take another look at their own understanding of the evidence..


[edit on 8-7-2009 by ATH911]




posted on Aug, 6 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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Come on skeptics, show us proof that Gravy made a living as a NYC tour guide!

Don't tell us he LIED about this!



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 03:40 AM
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What does it matter, really? he doesn't seem to exhibit any sort of technical, or mechanical knowledge. He probably repeats everything
he says from JREF.

The poor guy tried to debate R. Gage on Hardfire about building structure
and failed terribly.

It's typical of the GL community to engage in debates without having
some sort of degree, or discipline in the topic. Most of them remain
nameless and play on message forums. At least Mr. Roberts had the
guts to get on camera...but that doesn't excuse the lack of understanding
on a subject.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by turbofan
What does it matter, really? he doesn't seem to exhibit any sort of technical, or mechanical knowledge. He probably repeats everything
he says from JREF.


As apposed to you? Mr. FDR expert that was laughed out of JREF?


The poor guy tried to debate R. Gage on Hardfire about building structure
and failed terribly.


So, Mr. Roberts didn't bring carboard boxes with him to a debate this means he failed? (See my Avatar) Do you know the facts leading up to the debate, sir? If you did, you would know that Gage changed the subject of the debate at the last minute.

If it was such a failure on Mr. Roberts part... why is there no mention of it on AE truth? Gage and Co. post ALL their You Tube videos.

From Mark's site:


July, 2008: The two Hardfire shows with myself and Richard Gage, head of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, are now online. The host is 9/11 conspiracy believer John Clifton. Here's some info on the shenanigans they pulled to try to get the upper hand before and during the shows. Or, save time and just go to this point in the second show when Gage "jumps the shark" and displays his staggering ignorance of structures and engineering for all to see. Funny how Gage didn't promote these shows before or after they aired!


The debate



It's typical of the GL community to engage in debates without having
some sort of degree, or discipline in the topic. Most of them remain
nameless and play on message forums. At least Mr. Roberts had the
guts to get on camera...but that doesn't excuse the lack of understanding
on a subject.


Funny how most "professionals"(besides Gage) of the Truth movement are afraid of the tour guide. DRG, Steven Jones, UL Waterboy, just to name a few.

Mr. Mackey was asked to debate Tony Szamboti and David Chandler. Interesting enough Mr. Chandler backed out without an explination. They are now trying to confirm a date where both are available. (Ryan & Tony)



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by CameronFox

afraid of the tour guide.

Prove Gravy makes/made his living as a tour guide, or retract your claim.

[edit on 12-8-2009 by ATH911]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by ATH911
 


I'm in NY City as we speak, not too far from Ground Zero actually. (leaving tomorrow)

Do you want a picture of him pointing at the Statue of Liberty, cowboy?

Actually...I just read back a couple pages. Have you written to Mr. Roberts yet? I gave you his e-mail address.




[edit on 12-8-2009 by CameronFox]



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by CameronFox
 

You made a CLAIM that Gravy is a tour guide. PROVE your claim "cowboy."



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 08:54 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by turbofan

Originally posted by CameronFox
As apposed to you? Mr. FDR expert that was laughed out of JREF?


Don't LIE "CameronFox". I wasn't laughed out of JREF, I was BANNED
because one of your weak friends REPORTED me to the moderators
concerning a PRIVATE MESSAGE I sent him stating that he was a child
for following me around threads and posting stupid comments.


Who cares?

But you're posting here and after having been asked for years you still can't provide any eyewitness statements of a "jet flying over and away from the Pentagon."

What in creation is taking you so bloody long, Turbofan???



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by ATH911
reply to post by CameronFox
 

You made a CLAIM that Gravy is a tour guide. PROVE your claim "cowboy."


Sorry ATH911, that dodge doesn't work. No one has to "prove" anything to you. Your "Truther" habit of demanding everyone else do your work for you never cut the mustard and still doesn't.

If you doubt Gravy's employment, YOU have the opportunity to find out on your own. The fact is that you asked for and got Robert's e-mail address but refuse to contact him.

I have no doubt about Mark's Robert's credentials. If you do, then you have to prove it. And its clear that you aren't even going to try. You can't STAND that you have to prove your own claims.


The same goes for ALL Truther claims. You DEMAND that WE prove to YOU that the WTC Towers weren't imploded, for instance. We remind you that YOU have to DEBUNK the massive evidence that they WEREN'T imploded. And you NEVER have been able to do so.

Then you whine that you don't have to do your own homework, bring up debunked claims again, and repeat the process, going around in endless circles.

Is it any wonder that you have gone nowhere in 8 years? Absolutely NOWHERE.

Sorry, ath9/11, you have to play by the rules or find another sandbox to play in.



posted on Aug, 12 2009 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by jthomas
 



There is plenty of evidence AA77 did not hit the Pentagon:

- FDR data
- Witnesses on video (See National Security Alert)
- Lack of damage to Pentagon (see photos and video)

Where is your evidence after 8+ years?



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by jthomas
 

Gee, the skeptics are really getting defensive that we are questioning if their idol Gravy is really a tour guide and are refusing to prove their claim that he is. I wonder why?



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by ATH911
reply to post by jthomas
 

Gee, the skeptics are really getting defensive that we are questioning if their idol Gravy is really a tour guide and are refusing to prove their claim that he is. I wonder why?




the trouble is that this whole subject is ludicrous..
why on earth would you be arguing over whether or not he was a tour guide?
seems like truthers would want him to be,
so they could discredit his credentials as being trivial and unworthy of mention..

but no.. they wonder why he is so knowledgeable about the details.. why?
some people consider the facts and then base an opinion..

but no.. they think he is some kind of sinister agent..
if they could debunk his research, they wouldnt be focusing on his credentials..
he is an admitted regular joe.. just happens to be one who studies..
you can wonder however, as much as you want..
doesnt change the fact that this is all irrelevant anyway..



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 12:02 PM
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1d.) Cross-Posting: You will not cross-post content from other discussion boards (unless you receive advance permission from The Above Network, LLC). You will not post-by-proxy the material of banned members or other individuals who are not members, but have written a response to content within a thread on these forums.

Terms and Conditions

Please remain on topic. Thank you.



posted on Aug, 13 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by pccat

the trouble is that this whole subject is ludicrous..
why on earth would you be arguing over whether or not he was a tour guide?

Because he claims he is and uses it to try to mock truthers, so we are simply asking for proof of the claim he's a legitimate tour guide.

If he was, it would be easy to prove and you skeptics wouldn't be getting all bent out of shape from us merely asking.



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by ATH911
You made a CLAIM that Gravy is a tour guide. PROVE your claim "cowboy."


I have to admit, I'm a little bemused by this approach...

The normal approach is "I have a theory, and here's some evidence I've found to prove it..."

Yours appears to be "I have a theory, now YOU GUYS find some evidence to prove me wrong!"

No offence, ATH911, but it would kind of be like me posting all around ATS that I have a theory that you're a child molester, and want YOU to provide some sort of evidence that you're not. Could you?

What sort of evidence will you accept? Would a group certificate or a paycheck suffice? Given that you seem to be refusing to contact him yourself, why would he simply come over to ATS and provide you with all this sort of personal detail?

Rewey

PS - none of the above is meant to be personal or abusive, mods, but if it violates T&C, please feel free to edit... thanks...



posted on Aug, 14 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Rewey
Yours appears to be "I have a theory, now YOU GUYS find some evidence to prove me wrong!"

You are misguided here, Gravy CLAIMS to be a legit tour guide and uses his alleged occupation title as a way to mock truthers. We are simply asking him and his skeptic lackeys to prove their claim.

If I claimed I have paranormal powers, I'm sure the skeptics would ask for proof.



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by ATH911

You are misguided here, Gravy CLAIMS to be a legit tour guide and uses his alleged occupation title as a way to mock truthers. We are simply asking him and his skeptic lackeys to prove their claim.

If I claimed I have paranormal powers, I'm sure the skeptics would ask for proof.



Can you back this up? Mark does not "mock" truthers with his occupation. He did, however occasionally go to ground zero on Saturday's to point out the lies to the truthers that loitered there spreading their filth.

You asked for his e-mail address and it was supplied to you. You failed to write him, only complaining that his e-mail address was a G-mail account. Why don't you look at April Gallops lawsuit currently tying up the courts. All of her attorney's representing her have G-Mail accounts. Does this mean they are not attorneys?

So, Mr. Ath, have you written to him? .... i didn't think so. I am heading back to NYC next weekend to the next NWO / PNAC Owl worshiping meeting. Anything you want me to tell them?



posted on Aug, 15 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by turbofan
reply to post by jthomas
 



There is plenty of evidence AA77 did not hit the Pentagon:

- FDR data
- Witnesses on video (See National Security Alert)
- Lack of damage to Pentagon (see photos and video)

Where is your evidence after 8+ years?


- Still waiting for you to provide the statements what wreckage from inside the Pentagon was seen, handled, removed, and sorted by the over 1,000 people there.

- Still waiting for you to demonstrate your flyover claim by providing the eyewitness statements of those amongst the hundreds all around the Pentagon.

Sorry, turbofan, you know full well that the burden of proof is on your shoulders to demonstrate your claims.

Cat still got your tongue?




posted on Aug, 16 2009 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by ATH911
You are misguided here, Gravy CLAIMS to be a legit tour guide and uses his alleged occupation title as a way to mock truthers. We are simply asking him and his skeptic lackeys to prove their claim.


Hmmm... I've never seen that. I've had plenty of run-ins with Gravy, and have always found him patient and cordial, although passionate about what he is arguing. I have a lot of respect for him, because I think he's also done a lot to help the Truther movement as well by amassing such a huge collection of resources which benefit both sides, such as disproving beyond doubt the ridiculous No Plane Theory.

Not saying your experiences with him will be the same as mine, but I'm guessing that maybe if you're as abrupt as you appear to be in this thread, he's going to be just as frustrated debating with you, and might lean towards mocking you.

Food for thought...

Rewey



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