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Baby With Knife Held to Her Throat Saved by Amherst Police Use of TASER X26

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posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 


Absolutely.




posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 03:23 AM
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Wow, talk about grasping for straws. Just how lethal do you people think tasers are? If you know the first thing about them, you'll understand that being shot is significantly more dangerous than being tasered.

I have a stun gun that's TWICE as powerful as a taser. And I've used it on myself. For fun. And here I am, perfectly healthy and alive. I wouldn't call it torture by a long shot. I've also pepper sprayed myself, and been hit in the face with a stick similar in size to a police baton. I've never been shot though. Guess what? If I ever went nuts and needed taken down, I'd take the taser over any of those other options any day.

No, I'm not going to go out of my way to try and prove the statistics. If you want some evidence of their safety, go on YouTube and look up "taser" or "stun gun." Watch as bored YouTuber after bored YouTuber shocks the crap out of themselves or their friends and is *completely unscathed.* Asking for proof that being tasered is less deadly than being shot is like demanding proof that the sky is up: You're just wasting time because you're argument is crap.

All cops that carry tasers are bad... what a silly statement. Why don't you provide proof of that?



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 03:25 AM
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Here's one thing that I've noticed about televised media when it comes to the Taser. They like to tell the world how someone was electrocuted with the Taser and what horror, pain, agony, they must have gone through. Very, very rarely do you see a televised clip of how the Taser saved someones life. In fact I don't remember ever seeing one, but yet they happen often. Strange thing!



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by mattifikation

No, I'm not going to go out of my way to try and prove the statistics.


Thanks for the candor.

I was just about to ask you again - I guess that would have been a waste of time.

Now I can say that you made an unsubstantiated claim; and I won't be violating the T&Cs.

*Can anyone find the statistics that would corroborate matti's hypothesis?



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 03:46 AM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 


Simple

An officer has a progression they are supposed to go through. It is called a Force Continuum.

It goes something like this:


Level One - Officer Presence

Level Two - Verbal Commands

Level Three - Empty Hand Control

Level Four - Baton/OC spray

Level Five - Taser

Level Six - Deadly Force



Before the Taser, there was only five levels. After the baton/OC did not work, you were shot with a bullet

Now you get Tasered instead of shot with a bullet. If you continue after getting Tasered, you get shot with a bullet, unitl someone comes out with something that has more stopping power than a Taser, but is not lethal.

By the way, any officer who is certified to use a Taser, gets Tasered multiple times.

[edit on 13/6/2009 by xxpigxx]



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 03:51 AM
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No, really. The sky actually is up. I don't have stats for that, but that doesn't make it unsubstantiated.

Stats.

That document is in PDF format. Enjoy.

It's almost 5 am here, I'm going to bed. 'Night all.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 03:51 AM
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reply to post by xxpigxx
 


Interesting.

But here is my request for corroborative statistical data and the claim by mattifikation which prompted it:


Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by mattifikation
Stun guns save FAR more lives than they take. Consider this: Every time a taser gets fired, a bullet does not. People tend to forget that.


Do you have statistical data that would corroborate your claims?

Providing this data is the least you could do.



*Obviously, such data would include statistics on police shootings from the era of time before tazers began being used.

[edit on 13-6-2009 by Exuberant1]



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 03:55 AM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 


And what he is trying to tell you is that it is common sense, just as I showed you. But you are being a hard nose about it to prove whatever little point you are trying to prove.

Yes, the sky is up. Look up. Put two and two together.

Yes, a Taser is fired now instead of a bullet, and it obviously saves more lives.. Check the Force Continuum I posted that all departments use.

Seriously. Get over it.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 04:01 AM
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I'll agree that tasers are bad; but guns are worse.

Pain is bad, but in the case of tasering, i'd say death is worse.

In this case, the use of a taser was definately a smart option, intimidate with guns, but subdue with a taser.

Sure, they've gotten a bad name because of all the press to do with grannies etc being tasered... but for each bad story that gets reported, there are like 10 or so that aren't. Cops come under fire for the bad things they do, but the everyday, good, life saving things they do get passed over as "just what they do".



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 04:03 AM
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Originally posted by xxpigxx

Yes, a Taser is fired now instead of a bullet, and it obviously saves more lives..


...but neither you or mattifikation can substantiate this claim


You have yet to provide the statistical data which would corroborate the theory you ascribe to.

Matt has said already he will not provide it.


[edit on 13-6-2009 by Exuberant1]



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 04:18 AM
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I lied. I didn't go to bed because I saw this thread is getting activity. Soooo... Quick. Snap decision time.

You've gotten lost in a dangerous neighborhood. You see a group of dodgy looking people walking in your direction, so you duck into an alleyway. They pass by without noticing you, and you think you're safe.

Just as you're about to leave the alleyway, another man steps in your path. He clearly has his hand on a weapon in his pocket. You're cornered in the alley. "Give me your wallet," he tells you, "or else!"

He pulls the weapon out, and points it at you. Would you rather it be a gun, or a fricking taser? I probably shouldn't have to wait for an answer.


Estimated Lives Saved with TASER passes 9,000 mark

There's how many lives have been saved after the use of a taser. Now the burden is on you to come up with over 9,000 instances of tasers being used to kill people. Oh, and in order to prove that "tasers are bad," you really can only count cases where the people killed wouldn't have simply been shot with a regular gun if tasers hadn't been on the scene.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 04:30 AM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 


I did.

I provided you with the force continuum. Now you must go and find the department you are interested in knowing about, find out when they started using their Tasers, and find out how many people they were used on since then.

There is your statistic buddy boy.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 07:14 AM
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I disagree. They should have blown his head off ! Never mind ''continuum of force'', the baby's life was in immediate danger and they should have killed him instantly.

In fact because of the delay in using the taser the baby could be dead by now but luckily it did not happen that way. If I had anything to do with it, Mr Jeffrey Hernandez should be a dead man by now...



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by mumblyjoe
I disagree. They should have blown his head off ! Never mind ''continuum of force'', the baby's life was in immediate danger and they should have killed him instantly.

In fact because of the delay in using the taser the baby could be dead by now but luckily it did not happen that way. If I had anything to do with it, Mr Jeffrey Hernandez should be a dead man by now...


I agree with you, to a certain extent.

Taking a shot with a chance of hitting the baby, I'm pretty sure no cop in the world would want to take that chance. Personally, I would have shot the guy when he hit the ground.
Anyone who dares hold a knife to a child's throat, deserves to be shot in my opinion. Not only that, he actually used the knife and was most likely going to finish the job.

Kudos to the cop for taking the scumbag down.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by Obscure Perception

Originally posted by mumblyjoe
I disagree. They should have blown his head off ! Never mind ''continuum of force'', the baby's life was in immediate danger and they should have killed him instantly.

In fact because of the delay in using the taser the baby could be dead by now but luckily it did not happen that way. If I had anything to do with it, Mr Jeffrey Hernandez should be a dead man by now...


I agree with you, to a certain extent.

Taking a shot with a chance of hitting the baby, I'm pretty sure no cop in the world would want to take that chance. Personally, I would have shot the guy when he hit the ground.
Anyone who dares hold a knife to a child's throat, deserves to be shot in my opinion. Not only that, he actually used the knife and was most likely going to finish the job.

Kudos to the cop for taking the scumbag down.


Hell yes, and while I hate corrupt pigs as much as anybody I also really like having good cops around to save babies when assholes try to slit their throats.

To Imitator:

Every cop with a taser being bad is a joke, how could you ever say that?

Even this specific case shows a cop using a taser to save an infant from having her throat slit. How is that a bad cop? You're pretty ignorant.

[edit on 13-6-2009 by BaronVonGodzilla]



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by mattifikation
 


Well perhaps you quieted that "Exuberant1". They haven't posted since the last post by you. Pretty funny huh?!. You're definately on the right track with you posts. I think the problem here is that when the media reports that a person died by use of the Taser, the death usually involves something more that just the effect of the Taser. Many, many times the death results from the persons body being overdosed with drugs (coc aine, meth, etc), heart can't withstand the drug overdose and then they get into a physical altercation with law enforcement and you get some type of heart failure or total system shutdown, and they die. Then the problem comes with the "Media" who will only state that the victim died as a result of being Tasered. They won't follow up with a story after the medical examiner's done his job and list his findings. It's just simply "Taser killed victim." Now you got to use some common sense when applying a Taser. I wouldn't Taser an adolesent, although in my line of work I've seen some pretty big 11 and 12 y.o.'s. I wouldn't Taser someone who had a pacemaker, knowing that they had a pacemaker. Nor would I Taser someone who has drenched themsevles in some type of flammable substance. Heck, a 72 y.o. was just tasered and she didn't die. Now I don't think that the Taser should have been used in that situation but, no death. The Taser is an excellent tool when usesd appropriately.



posted on Jun, 14 2009 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by imitator
 


Really? I don't use a Taser product, but I do have an extremely powerful stun gun.


taser and stun guns are two different entities.... you should read up on the subject...


Originally posted by skyeyes
reply to post by imitator
 


Same to you also imitator, go the the Taser site at the top of the page, if you care to educate yourself on the real data.


Are you kidding me
you got to be joking, TASER International is well known to fudge the facts... get real. You should go to a real source, like doctors who deal with Taser deaths, and those who fear being sued by TASER International etc.... Then you have PD's fudging Taser incidents as well for the MSM.....

TASER International has their people out there to manipulate public opinion.


Originally posted by mattifikation
If you know the first thing about them, you'll understand that being shot is significantly more dangerous than being tasered.


obvisouly you know nothing about taser.....they are not ment to replace the gun....


Originally posted by mattifikation
I have a stun gun that's TWICE as powerful as a taser. And I've used it on myself. For fun. And here I am, perfectly healthy and alive.


Really! probably in voltage... as most stun guns are high in voltages
GO take an electronic course. Plus your body can build up a tolerance.


Originally posted by mattifikation
All cops that carry tasers are bad... what a silly statement. Why don't you provide proof of that?



Originally posted by BaronVonGodzilla
To Imitator:

Every cop with a taser being bad is a joke, how could you ever say that?

Even this specific case shows a cop using a taser to save an infant from having her throat slit. How is that a bad cop? You're pretty ignorant.


mattifikation.... Proof Yes cops are not aware that Taser violates UN's Convention against Torture.... A good cop would know what torture is and not carry one..

BaronVonGodzilla... nope your pretty ignorant, as I said this is the only case I've heard where taser was useful. That is if the story is true....



posted on Jun, 14 2009 @ 02:51 AM
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So the cop in this thread that just saved a baby's life is a bad cop... because he saved the baby's life with a taser? Wow. Sounds to me like somebody probably just has a personal beef with authority figures, and will use any excuse they can to bash the police. It's the cool thing to do, man!



posted on Jun, 14 2009 @ 03:22 AM
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Know what the jacked up thing about this story is ????

The cops were actually aiming for the baby.



posted on Jun, 14 2009 @ 03:23 AM
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reply to post by imitator
 


Are you kidding me
you got to be joking, TASER International is well known to fudge the facts... get real. You should go to a real source, like doctors who deal with Taser deaths, and those who fear being sued by TASER International etc.... Then you have PD's fudging Taser incidents as well for the MSM.....

TASER International has their people out there to manipulate public opinion.

I would like to know of the FACTS that YOU have that support these statments!



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