I did a radical thing...

Originally posted by AccessDenied


THIS is how you debate a topic? When you have reduced yourself to name calling- argument lost.
I do not see how watching TV can improve the lives of my children...at all.
If you can show me proof of otherwise..then do so.

Sigh. Are you purposely refusing to understand what I'm saying, or is my point really flying that far over your head?

I'll try once more...

OK. I was saying that I hope the reason you have done this is not to appear like some kind of super-parent.

Now, that doesn't mean I have decided you are, it only means I don't know, I can only hope.

I threw in the idea of fattening your kids up to cook (story of Hansel and Gretal) because it is ridiculous, and I was hoping it would show you that when I say I hope something, it doesn't mean I have presumed it to be true!

Another example...
I also hope you have not taken the TV off your kids so you can sell it, to make money to put towards your 1980's spandex lycra addiction.

or...

I hope you haven't done this so when the kids forget what a TV is, you can cut a pretend one out of cardboard, tell your kids you have bought a TV and then hold the carboard TV in front of your face and re-inact scenes of famous American sit-coms, because your dream of being a famous TV star is becoming less and less likely but you crave it so much, you want to make your kids think they are watching a real program and you want to hear them laugh and clap at all the characters (all played by you) on the screen (an empty hole in a carboard square)


SEE!! Ridiculous but I still HOPE that isn't why you have done this!!

I even added a smily face to that post, so you knew I was being lighthearted and friendly with you but you still got into a strop and started accusing me of calling you names (yeah, I really believed you were trying to fatten your kids up to cook them:@@


And as I said in that last post of mine, the one you got so outraged about, seeing as you have told me that you didn't do it to impress others, that I completely believe you!!

Don't take yourself so seriously!

reply to post by AccessDenied


Even tough it might look like a great thing at first look, I have to say that creating disconnected children's isn't the way to go. What you've did it's a extreme that you shouldn't have the need to do in the first place.

Extremes always fail, and should always be avoided. Raising kids in a bubble that will eventually burst will never work. The current reality is that, and it's the reality of the majority of kids that will shape the society that they will live in, if they can't fit on that they will suffer constantly in their future.

They need to have access to everything and learn that there is more to life than silly tv shows, video games and movies. Once they realize that, they will fit perfectly on the society surrounding them (if they want to) but will be clever than anyone else. So they will be literally on top of the hill. Otherwise they will become those overly intelligent kids that can never apply what they know simply because they don't understand or fit on the real world environment.

And it's up to you to provide them that, allow them to have access to things, how the real world works, societies function, etc. Show them the whole picture and not just the side that looks brighter to you.

In the end it's all about awareness, having basic principles and being clever.

Originally posted by AccessDenied
reply to post by triplesod

 

I see no point in debating parenting skills, with a 17 year old.
Plain and simple.
And the cop out is from the one who keeps pushing the posts of others, and not creating his own.
Now- if you wish to debate TV versus no TV..then do so.

You're just lying now AD. Why would you do that when every single person who reads this can see very plainly that you are lying?

I have written several posts, explaining in detail my philosophy about child rearing and modern technology. Every post has been very long and explaining precisely what I believe about what you have done and also more generally on the matter.

You have replied to at least 5 of them. So I know that you have definitely seen them!

In only one of my posts have I quoted someone and that was because Steven had written a fantastic post which proves your thoughts completely wrong.
Even in this post where I quoted S, I still wrote a long post clarifying why I agreed with him.

So, please tell me why you would try and say that I am only pushing the posts of others without quoting my own, when the whole forum can see that is a complete and utter lie?

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by TurkeyBurgers

 

I wholeheartedly disagree with everything you just said, if AD wants to do that as her means of change, and the impact was an immediately beneficial venue of her children learning from it, reading because of it, and getting them away from the electronic indoctrination and babysitting device, then who the Hell are you to claim that she was practicing bad parenting skills? As a child, I was constantly seeking out the bosom of the electronic visage like the Cable Guy in wanting to do anything other than read, but constantly, I always self-directed back to books, learning, and self-betterment.

I will be thiry-six in five days from this post, I've got more experience in my life than most Government's have had in their first 10 years of existence, just launched my first international non-profit based on civil rights, terror laws, and stalker laws, and all of that, is thanks to reading books, learning from life, and getting away from those types of idiots you described in your rather lowbrow Neaderthal description of "society".

I am literally learning how to change the world through positive influences, instead of just whining, complaining, and being a negative entity on this message board, and what exactly are you doing to change the world, and take it away from the stalkers, pedophiles, and rapists, and financial predators in Washington DC?

Where can I gain this same sort of knowledge, anyway? Because I want to make real change in the world.

I don't watch 9hrs of tvs every day btw.

Without video games my child hood when have been horrible

Let your kids have some fun............
Watching a movie or reading a book is the same thing.

reply to post by maus80


What Utopian Dimension do you hail from kind friend? What you are describing is exactly that, Utopia. I have never witnessed such a thing among human beings in the areas I have traveled. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give the name of you school you attended. If would hail as a hallmark for every school in the world to follow suit on.

In another words you should be a provider who also gives constant guidance and set limits when required.

But limiting everything just because it would be a whole lot less of extra work for you to deal with, I have to say that you're basically choosing the easier path and you're not necessarily doing them a favor on the long run.

Originally posted by mnmcandiez
Without video games my child hood when have been horrible

Let your kids have some fun............
Watching a movie or reading a book is the same thing.

Yeah and no.

They need to have some fun... yes!

They need to understand that not everything is fun... yes!

Content my friend, 24x7 of video games and shallow conversations about stupid shows only lead to one thing, crappy human beings. Or should I say stupid zombies that have nothing to add to this world?

I really doubt we need more of those, we have enough!

Watching a movie and reading a book are hardly the same thing, especially when your talking about blockbusters and films that have absolutely no content what so ever.

They are different medias and trigger different reactions. Films (and other visual mediums) tend to serve you everything on a silver plater without much room for imagination, while books do the exact opposite.

But of course there are good books and crappy books, in the same way that there are crappy films and good films, and good games and crappy games.

So one doesn't replace the other, and yes... they need to have contact with all three and learn to appreciate and understand all three (video games, films and books).

reply to post by maus80


That's the most out-of-touch description of modern school life that I've ever read. It ranks right up there with the cheesy kids' movies where the bully just turns out to be in need of a good friend. Once the bizarre circumstances unite the bully with the hero to save the day, why, everything's just a-okay, honkey-doory, golly-gee-willikers, and okie-dokie!

I think chances are pretty good that if you honestly don't think there was any teasing, judging, or social laddering going on at your school, you were simply oblivious to the suffering of others. Since I don't know you, I'll let you be the judge of whether or not that means you were one of the ones causing it.

And if you're actually right, then I suppose in your schools, *everyone* was voted prom queen?

Okay, I know the point was made a long time ago...but I have been absent from the computer and unable to respond.


No, I know that you have not restricted their use to the computer anymore than you had before. (And at 12 it is perfectly normal to restrict internet access for safety, or provide constant supervision, that I understand.) The point I was trying to make is that you kept the computer because it is what YOU wanted to keep.

Maybe if you had asked your daughter she would have rather kept the television, you got to keep the form of entertainment that you wanted. Even though it is arguably no better than television, and in alot of ways worse. (Admitedly in alot of ways better too.)



You can choose not to take the debate up with a 17 year old if you so wish, though I do not see why my age plays any factor, if I can provide one side of a debate, why can't you counter it with your side? No I may not be a parent, but I am growing up in this modern world, I have first hand experience of it. In a few years, I may well be clueless to how children live, because I will no longer be growing up in their world, but at the moment I am.

We are the two extreemes, you are the adult, and I am (relatively speaking) the child. However I am old enough to have gone through this stage and explain its benefits, and of course downsides too.... I hide nothing about how it has led me slightly into depression at times...but I counter that with the fact that, the things that have actually made me consider suicide, were real life social factors. Once again, life is not all black and white.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the path that A.D. has chosen to raise her children. So she has decided to take the less popular route of 'killing the tv' and is being persecuted for it?

LoL - No more television filth and propaganda or having to listen to the whining of an adolescent wanting the latest $70 video game or $80 pair of jeans they saw advertised.

We should all just get along, buy playstations, 50inch widescreen LCD HDTV's, the premium cable package, handheld games so that our children can play video games in the car, in bed, at school during lunch and recess, then we can all have TV's mounted to the ceiling of our cars/trucks/vans so that we may constantly keep them entertained because they are completely incapable of doing so themselves.

That's just terrible to replace their DVD and game library with BOOKS! Books filled with wonderful stories, biographies, fantasy, suspense, and useful knowledge. We really shouldn't take away their Guitar Hero and replace it with a real instrument either, it's not like anyone ever really enjoyed being able to play actual music, right?

Gawd, I've been in the dark for so long, conservatives just have the wrong idea. We should just conform for the GREATER GOOD!

You people make me sick. You're actually telling A.D. that she's a bad mom for raising her children in a completely acceptable manner that children for THOUSANDS of years were raised? I don't EVEN want to hear about how much we have progressed in the last hundred years, because that's the next thing everyone wants to start bs'ing about. She's putting a book in front of her kid instead of a remote control, obviously her kids are still being taught to be computer savvy. I don't see tv or video games to be a source of entertainment when this entire country is obsessed with it all.

I wish more people would start thinking and ACTING like A.D., maybe then America wouldn't be filled with a bunch of pushovers who are raising future puffballs to run a bankrupt nation.

Originally posted by AccessDenied
I do not see how watching TV can improve the lives of my children...at all.

"Do not" or "Refuse to"?
A few have pointed out that it's much easier for a kid to learn something from a documentary with interesting videos than from a book with static pictures.

I hate how people born in the 70's or 80's, or earlier, say that technology is bad because they grew up without it. They fail to see the possibilities of technology. They only see the negative sides and none of the positive.
Video games are not bad. I even learned some math while playing Gran Turismo. Playing a video game with a good storyline is much more interesting than reading a book. Best memories were from Final Fantasy series. You can't say that learning playing strategic games is bad. You kid HAS TO THINK while playing one. The same goes for First Person Shooters, teamwork is the key to victory. Call of Duty 4 and 5 are good examples. There are many games that involve puzzles/tactics/story. And video games are NOT anti-social. Books are.. You can't talk to a person reading a book.. But you can talk to a person playing video games. You can even discuss physics/biology/any other science while kicking the ass of Tekken 5's last boss.
Parenting IS difficult. But you can't just take away TV and video games from them to ease your burden. The key is balance. Don't let them get addicted. Teach them that other activities are fun too. Take them to a park. Play with the frisbee. Walk your pets. Anything to show them your affection. Don't be their "parent", be their friend.

[edit on 13/6/2009 by DGFenrir]

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


No, that isn't a utopia, it's a community, the foundation of culture. Cultural norms and practices vary as much as people, but I'm saying that the common theme of all the schools I attended was the golden rule. Improve the quality of your experience by improving the quality of others when possible/practical. Yes, surprise, this is what a lot of middle class Americans try to instill in their kids!

This relates to the OP in that I was saying from my experiences, that kids would generally have more of an analytical, introspective reaction to encountering diversity in other children, not necessarily a "you are different and therefor bad/inferior" one.

[edit on 13-6-2009 by maus80]

This might be a bit too radical in my humble opinion.

I suggest only to do the nr1 brainwashing institute away.

CABLE TV

the truth is not out there.

I stopped with cable about 2 years ago and picked up some new hobbies, one of them recently is electric guitar.

Originally posted by Grey Magic


I stopped with cable about 2 years ago and picked up some new hobbies, one of them recently is electric guitar.

Cancelling the cable opened up a little spare time to learn how to play the guitar huh? That's GREAT! Musical talent is always appreciated.....Good for you!

[edit on 13-6-2009 by bronwyn82]

Originally posted by AccessDenied

Originally posted by Alxandro


I just hope some really radical liberal person out there doesn't call Child Protective Services on you.

Oh so now, child protective services should be involved huh? Because I chose to take away an electronic babysitter and encourage my kids to use their brains?
Wow- the insults never end.

For the record, that was my bad attempt at sarcasm.
I was merely pointing out that there are some people out there that will think what you did for your children is cruel.

In other words, they'll say: "how dare you are a Mom to your kids and not a best friend"

Heck, just look at the grief some people are giving Palin for dare protecting her daughter from Letterman's cruel joke.

Your intent was right but I think the move was a bit draconian. When I was a kid I played video games and watched TV, but I also read books and played outside in nature, and got mostly A's in school. My parents set limits... No TV before ___P.M. or no more than 2 hours of video games/computer. This way I wasn't socially isolated--like your kids are about to be--or socially illiterate, and to this day I am familiar with technology which helps me immensely in life.

reply to post by mattifikation


Kids growing up in the information age are overexposed and desensitized to diversity in ways unimagined by previous generations. You are describing something that makes you sound outdated and out of touch.
These kids and young adults represent a culmination of all previous American generation gaps. They have developed in an environment where it would be offensive and absurd to think about trying to legally force their peers to dress a certain way, and yet things like baggy pants are a real, serious issue to those who grew up in different times. The tone of their response to displeasure is contempt, whereas their elders for time on end have favored indignation almost exclusively. In other words, our culture is transitioning from a bunch of haters to a bunch of players.

Yes there were bullies in schools I went to, but nothing like I've seen in movies and on tv, that kind of thing seems like it comes from old people who had a really crap experience and can't accept that things change. The jerks were the jerks, but they weren't allowed to just terrorize anyone, just too many good kids and people around to allow it. The majority of students in all of those schools got along or didn't based on compatibility, not tolerance. It's 100x more that way now than when I was experiencing it, kids have seen it all already (on tv) and look a little deeper.

I haven't had any stations on my tv in almost four years. As a matter of fact, I cut it off the day I took custody of my 5 year old daughter. I do still have a computer(obviously) and I do still have an game system that she can use. We also have some movies, like Finding Nemo, Aristocats, Shrek etc... that she watches from time to time. Her computer usage is limited and monitored. Her use of the gaming system is limited and monitored. Her reading capabilities are way beyond a 9 yo. Her vocabulary is way beyond a 9 yo. Her comprehension of complex problems is way beyond a 9 yo. Most of this I attribute to the fact that she hasn't been raised by the idiot box.

She does get to watch tv occasionally when she goes to friends house or to her Grandma's and I see the affect it has. I can speak to her and she doesn't hear a word because she is so zombified. I generally just walk over to the tv, turn it off and say, "That is why we don't have tv in our house.."

She likes to read. A lot. I get comments from her teachers about it and how well she can summarize a story for them. She enjoys reading my books. Like Nortons Anthology of English Literature or Shakespeares complete works. She likes to discuss the stuff she reads in them with me. She enjoys reading a lot of my Fantasy novels by Salvatore, Eddings or Tolkien. She was disappointed by the LOTR trilogy on film because she though the books where better. She also has three book shelves full of her own books and every year at Xmas time, asks for gift cards for Chapters from family so she can get more. Bringing her to a Library or Bookstore is like bringing most kids to a toy store(although she really enjoys them too. )She doesn't want to sit in front of the tv during meals, she wants to talk about our days and how they were.

Not having access to tv hasn't hurt her in anyway, intellectually or socially. She isn't ridiculed or shunned because she doesn't know what happened on the latest episode of Hannah Montana or The Jonas Brothers. She has many friends and is involved in many things. She just got an award from her Boys and Girls Club for starting an afterschool radio show at the Club.

As for the one's judging AD on her choice; who the hell are you too tell her how to raise her kids and what is good for them and what isn't? They are her kids and she has the right to do what she deems right in their upbringing. Although I don't agree with the extant she went to, I applaud her for having the courage to take that step. Children now days could do with a lot less TV and other mind numbing stimilus and whole lot more of stimulus that makes them exercise their brains.

Here is a great video on the subject.



Oh and a timeless classic tirade.



Even if you skip my post, watch the videos.

I took my sons computer away when I saw how he was abusing spellcheck for his papers.
I bought him a typewriter and a dictionary.

I was voted worst father of the year from all the kids on our block.

But now, MY kid can fill out an application for a job, and be the only one that spells correctly.

Kudos to you for doing something similar with your kids.