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Divided We Stand: Imagine Breaking Up The United States -WSJ.com

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posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Agreed entirely. But when enough evidence can be produced it becomes a mechanism of nature or human design. A discernible phenomenon. I believe the ground work for what may be the future of this nation is being set today and with intent.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by projectvxn]




posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by WTFover



I believe this is due to the, fairly recent, tendency of immigrants coming to make America their 'home sweet home' and then trying to change it to seem more like the country they left. Makes no sense to me.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by WTFover]

very well said and is quite the truth..I feel as though it really started going down hill when they started harping on the pledge of allegence in schools..



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


Evidence has really yet to be convincingly produced though. Well evidence that cannot be held suspect. Like I said, you could be right, but I am not seeing it. I see the problems with the world today being largely the fault of all the inhabitants of the world *albeit not universally intentionally, heck pretty much not intentionally*, not just a council of shadowy evil men.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 



I never said anything about a council of shadowy evil men. The agendas of the people who run the show are readily available. I believe what people call the NWO are like crime families. All of them are serving their own interests, but they have to talk every now and then, hence global institutions. It's not about us, it's about them, and at those levels, every individual involved is in it for themselves as well. It's the overall power of selfishness at work. There certainly is intent. But this chaotic order has been around since man first appeared on the Earth, it just get more complicated with more and more interests taking their "Rightful" places over time.


[edit on 12-6-2009 by projectvxn]



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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Hmmmm ... would you want America to divide or stay together?



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


I'm not sure honestly. At those levels of crises I think we're all out of answers. None of it looks good to me anyhow. I like being comfortable, but I also know this won't be possible for some time to come, if ever again.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by projectvxn]



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


but they have to talk every now and then, hence global institutions. It's not about us, it's about them, and at those levels, every individual involved is in it for themselves as well.


Hence a council of evil men. We are getting into semantics here. Do you realise how often rivalries crop up between people and how people often go about said rivalries? And would it not occur to the members of these groups that their purpose would better be served to expose those they are supposedly in collusion with? Catipulting themselves into a undeserved hero status and thusly garnering much.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Perhaps, but most people see this NWO stuff as one cohesive organization with one goal. I'm not sure it's that simple, or even cohesive at all. The study of how power moves around the world revolves primarily on self-interests and what the individuals motivations are in relation to how they think. No body is perfect. And because of that you'll occassionally see these "Elites" fall from the very towers they've built.

They suffer from the Human Condition as much as anyone else. And occasionally suicide is part of it. So is betrayal. Sometimes it's just incompetence. I'm also not sure Good and Evil are as solid as one would make it out to be. So it isn't even about that, self-interested people may be naive to the world around them, they may be in tune with it, it may even lead them to be selfish and power hungry, but none of this makes them evil, especially not to those who follow them, or in their own eyes.


[edit on 12-6-2009 by projectvxn]



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Perhaps, but most people see this NWO stuff as one cohesive organization with one goal. I'm not sure it's that simple, or even cohesive at all. The study of how power moves around the world revolves primarily on self-interests and what the individuals motivations are in relation to how they think. No body is perfect. And because of that you'll occassionally see these "Elites" fall from the very towers they've built.

They suffer from the Human Condition as much as anyone else. And occasionally suicide is part of it. So is betrayal. Sometimes it's just incompetence.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by projectvxn]


I think the NWO is more a bunch of people on the same wavelength than a bunch of people who are actually in some huge club. I'm sure there are some huge clubs, but I think the NWO is made up of more than just one of them.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


I just don't see it that way. Pretty much what I see is what could be best called Chaos Theory in motion, with those "elites" you mention in no more power really than you or I *or perhaps a little bit more but not much*. Ah, well. I can agree to disagree though and in no way discount your point of view, even I don't share it.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Actually we're kinda saying the same thing. It's an order out of chaos. A pattern temporarily etched into the fuzz of time. Indeed, this is but temporary, yet has its root in history. History can and does serve as a guide. And it is my firm belief that a person who studies history will have the needed knowledge to survive and thrive in the future.



[edit on 12-6-2009 by projectvxn]



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


I am not so sure we are, but that could just be me being unwillfully contrary
. I think human nature argues against such things as you assert exists. I think the problems with this world is as I said, caused by all of us. And yes there are those with power and wealth that manipulate and feed off what is going on in the world but I do not think they have anymore power over it then we do, humans after all can be highly unpredictable creatures and it gets worse as you increase the number of people you are talking about.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Of course not, hence why I listed incompentence behind why i don't think serious organizations like the NWO are real. There is too much of our own nature to deal with. But it is still a pattern that can be discerned by studying history. Cause and Effect can be measured.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


Problem is with sociology *as is also true of psychology*, the cause cannot always be exactly determined as things can be done for unspoken reasons or the reasons could be lied about....
I find I am enjoying our conversation do you mind if I friend you?



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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addition to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


And I think I have been misunderstanding you. I will go back and reread your posts soon.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
 


Not at all, friend away. And this is true, the idea behind recognizing the pattern would be to personally empathize with those involved. Try to see it their way to at least simulate the motivation behind the wider consequences of their individually motivated actions. Sociology and psychology are correct, but they assume as principle that human experience is largely external in terms of stimulus, and life is about reacting to that stimulus, when life is also largely internal and our thoughts and motivations make the whole of our reality. Our intent gives the design of our minds away.

They miss the point by not realizing that some actions are predictable consequences of the actions of others. In other words, in order to know your fellow man you must know yourself and all the motivations for the actions you take, and study the motivations of others. I don't believe that the top tier of society has any more control over the world than anyone else, history has proven that those people can be made to go away, what I am saying is that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

They recycle ideas using different names rather than pioneering something for the greater good because those in power are as afraid of losing what they have as any one of us. We're locked in a needless struggle by our own collective design, at any moment, our motivations can lead us to prosperity or ruin, depending on our mechanisms. And I believe these technical issues have predictable consequences that can be substantially measured by scientific means.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 12-6-2009 by projectvxn]



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 11:04 PM
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Couple things for me:

1. I thought I heard somewhere that TX can detach itself from the US. Am I correct on that? If so I think they would be the first to walk away and form their own republic.

2. Wasn't this talked about in the John Titor story? Something like we go through civil war because of the president and then have nuke war, etc. Granted the whole other timeline theory is taken into account because of dates already passed, but that doesn't mean it couldn't eventually happen in ours.

Question Everything



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 11:04 PM
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From a different perspective:

I would welcome a breakup for two distinctly seperate reasons. As a Californian, I think pretty much everything east of the Mississippi is crude, backwards, generally ignorant, and is parasitic on the West Coast in general and California in particular. Breaking up would be absolutely great for our economy...without the drag of the Midwest and East Coast, we'd flower into the world's strongest economy.

As a Native American, I would welcome a breakup so that we could regain our independence and take our rightful place among the other nations of the world. The United States will never give us our freedom back, despite the promises they made and the treaties they signed. Bet you don't know that reservations were supposed to be temporary: according to the treaties, as soon as the tribes were able to run their own affairs competently, they were supposed to return to free and independent states. But that was just a scam to quiet us, the true intent and expectation was that we would die off and the lands acquired through "inheritance" by the Anglos when the last of the original owners died off.

So it wouldn't break my heart if the "Land of the Free" fell apart, so that we would have a chance to regain our freedom.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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Breaking up the United States of America would at least be interesting. It would also give MSM something to get a lot of ratings over, and I would most likely actually watch the coverage.

Humans strive when being dealt a curve ball. Humans unite and get back to the basics.

I say all power to the opinions of people who make the most effort with their ideas. And lets keep life interesting, and lower the bore factor drastically. !



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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I personally don't think the US will be divided up simply because the Federal Government won't allow it to be.

Now, if you're talking about separate republics, still united by one over-seeing gov't and still paying taxes to the US, that may be possible.

But for the overall landscape of the US to change, both geographically and politically, I don't think that's possible. I do believe that there will be a great number of people fighting to try to make this possible, but IMO it will be fruitless.

There is no way that the Federal Government with allow their current pool of money, that they receive from the collective efforts of the states, to vanish and/or be divided.

Further, there are huge areas of this country that produce nothing, and therefore will have no means of participating in any kind of import/export agreements. Without a sound revenue stream, these areas won't survive a year.



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