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US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive

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posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 02:09 AM

Originally posted by wiredamerican
I am in favor of bulldozing entire neighborhoods in order for a community/city/town, to survive.

Too many communities and people take drastic government and associations and police to control.

Think of it as pruning an apple tree. You must prune the unwanted growth in order to make a larger more pleasurable fruit. !

This is about raising property values to get tax revenues back up.

This is about laying off large numbers of city workers.

There are millions of ppl being kicked out of their homes, some legit,
some not so legit.

Ppl were tricked by predatory lenders with small print and lies.

The whole story is quite amazing and evil.

The sheer size of the bailout+stimulus+12 trillion fed money
handout they refuse to explain would pay every mortgage
that has been foreclosed in recent years.

If every house cost 3/4 million dollars, they could totally buy
18 million homes free and clear which happens to be roughly the
number that are standing empty right now.

19 million homes stand vacant in 2008

Instead of working some kind of HUD loan system to keep the ppl
in their homes, and helping the ppl this is all just about a giant
ponzi scheme like madoff ran.

Madoff and Stafford were just offered up as a sacrifice to show they
were 'getting" the bad guys, which is a total lie.

The depth and breadth of this far exceeds most ppls imaginations.

This is a 4 fold screw over as I mention in my prior post.

Putting millions of struggling families into shelters, tent cities,
garages, and basements is not the answer.

We had ppl living in subway tunnels to avoid the inhumane
treatment at the shelters because no one cares if the homeless
get mugged. There is no money in the cops guarding bums.

Watch "dark days", it shows our path into dehumanization.

Handing trillions to wall street fat cats and million dollar bonuses
to fraudsters is not the answer either, and if you think it is its
obvious where your loyalties lie.

Good Luck to you all !

[edit on 13-6-2009 by Ex_MislTech]

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 02:57 AM

Originally posted by whatukno
Actually it is a plan that some local politicians have thought about.

Flint, Michigan: Government Considering Abandoning Parts of City, Cutting Off Police & Fire Service

Some parts of Flint and Detroit are almost ghost towns. They only really harbor criminals and drugs.

The only real way to curb escalating violence when Obama's economic plan fails is to cut down on the size of the city in order to have city services condensed into a more manageable and effective area.

With all the layoffs and unemployment the city coffers are drying up. The city can't pay for huge police forces. So a smaller coverage area has to be maintained in order to serve the people better.

The only way that can happen is to abandon outlying areas of the city, places were crime is at its worst. Cut the cancer out and let the patient live. These places should be bulldozed. [snip] Napalm them for all I care, the people that live there should have the option to move inward into the areas of the city that are going to be serviced and other than that they are on their own.

I agree, its a good plan, Sustainable Development is key, by reducing infrastructure overhead the government can save a lot of money and its good for the environment too.

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 03:17 AM
reply to post by Ex_MislTech

A house for 3/4 million dollars, you know that is high above the average european standard, the culprit is Greenspan and his goldilocks economy, everyone should afford their own house, the american dream.

Wakey wakey, smell the coffee.

Edit: Alan Greenspan is now a consultant at Deutsche Bank, goodbye irrational exuberance was probably his last words. He ruined the US economy during the years 2003 up to Bernanke, inflating exactly what is now the main problem, house prices.

[edit on 2009/6/13 by reugen]

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 03:43 AM

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You remember that when you are standing in line in a FEMA Camp, waiting for the days meal!

Been there done that, spent a year and a half at one in Arcadia FL.

Let me see, a car manufactured BY AMERICANS, in an AMERICAN plant with a foreign tag, or one built by the UAW union employees that don't give two rats asses about the quality of their product cause they are union and won't loose their job anyway.

Gee, wonder why people are so swift to buy foreign?

The big three can't compete with the foreign makers cause they are cowed by the union who demands too much for too little. Then if they somehow manage to fire a union employee he can still get his job back if he files a grievance with the company. Costing the company more money in the long run.

Ill admit, I can't argue specks with you. Never was a motor head. But I do know lazy union employees can't do what a non union employee that has to work for a living in the same country can do. They can turn out a better product, cause if they don't they loose their job.

All I know is all the American cars I have owned had to have much more service than the foreign cars I have owned.

You wonder why Detroit and Flint are in the shape they are in? It's the UAW that's the reason that Detroit and Flint are such cesspool hell holes that they are. If you don't work for one of the automakers you have to slum by in some mediocre job in areas that would be bad for slums in third world countries.

This is why they need to take down these abandoned buildings, these wretched cesspool slums that people hovel in. They have to cut the cancer from the patient in order for the patient to survive.

So in other words you simply are talking to talk?

Have you ever stopped to ponder since you are going with your very own limited experience and your own highly biased oppinions and assumptions without one shred of scientific concrete data other than your presonal oppinion that you not only are being totally unfair to the people and products that you are defaming but that putting those oppinions out there as facts in fact is in large part what has so damaged these cities and made it so easy for American business to export jobs and lower wages?

Do you just want to talk about problems, or do you want to be a part of the problem...

Personally I see nothing delightful or noble or even honest or accurate in what you are doing.

Why don't you consider that you made a strong statement and that you should do some strong research to back it up, because heaven forbid you just might find out you are wrong in the process?

Meanwhile you keep worrying about the selfishness of the union worker.

Keep pretending that there aren't more American cars on the road than foreign made ones, and keep pretending that they don't have millions upoin millions of happy owners and repeat buyers.

Cause after all why think about doing anything to help your nation when it's down when you can kick it instead?

I guess you really liked the FEMA Camp huh?

[edit on 12/6/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

hell, the problem is with american sedan V-8 engines , not the SUV . the american SUv's like Cadillac,Lincoln,infiniti have quality of parts .

the problems of quality with sedans, extremely low and japanese quality standards has led to 'american products are crap' reputation . american automotive quality has fallen steeply particularly in Sedans and heavy duty off road truck/semi trailer(not on-road trucks) . the only thing which has quality is american SUV's because they had large demand in american market

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 05:14 AM
As soon as I saw this article, I remembered some threads here on ATS from a while back..

Took me a while to find them too, and I'm still not too sure if I've found the one I actually wanted, but what I have dug up is along the lines of this thread.
You'll be able to find a lot about this topic here anyway..

So, what's first?
Turning the land back to nature to protect biodiversity.. just an excuse to create 'Mega Cities' IMO.

There is even a very well known sci-fi story in relation to this, but the land is drenched in heavy radiation rather than being a sanctuary for nature.
Mega-City One is a massive city under the control of a police state (police are actually judges by rights.. police, judge, jury, executioner all-in-one). The city is the brain child of this comic 2000AD which began back in the mid '70's and is a look at a futuristic Earth. Many of the story lines within the Judge Dredd series have seen reality. These items include, 'spy in the sky' cameras;
Police spy in the sky fuels 'Big Brother' fears, 'Riot Foam',
Sticky foam weapons are being tested, which cover and immobilize rioters with a gooey foam. otherwise known as sticky foam

The whole idea of keeping everyone in one place is just mass control. One huge camp.

The New World Order could possibly be planning (Along with Radical Environmentalist Leaders-which we all know the NWO has people everywhere, to please everyone and gain power and insight) to take out Private Property by using the Simulated Reserve and Corridor System to Protect Biodiversity.

The 21st century heralds perhaps the largest land grab our country will ever see whereby personal ownership of land is consolidated from the average citizen. The are many factors contributing to this. Among them are some found in the Communist Manifesto. Let me state some of these factors in list form and then expound on them.

1) Federal Environmental policies detrimental to private home ownership
2) Public oposition to development
3) Sales of development rights
4) Ever increasing stringent capital requirements for home ownership or land purchase
5) State and local ordinances which slow the development process to a snails pace and place rediculously high requirements on the development of land
6) Increasing investment by "big money" in real estate
7) Increased speculation in real estate
8) The 1997 stock market correction resulting in #7
9) Large amounts of capital invested in real estate which is actually owned by the bank

This can only show that Obama is, yet again, another puppet for those who really are in control and that many agendas proposed before are still in hand and are still being implemented.

Trans-Texas Corridor Born Again - IT'S NOT DEAD PEOPLE

I was doing some research when I came upon this I thought everyone should be aware of. It seems like they are trying to by-pass the people of Texas.

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 06:37 AM
Id say the ideology behind what they are saying is correct. Just like pruning a over grown tree so that it may bear fruit. Fair play. However, the needs for housing is down, AT THE MOMENT. Instead of bulldozing, why not just reallocate those people and leave that area of the city empty. Then if the time comes that they need more housing, hey presto, you have houses already.

INSTEAD of, paying people to bulldoze, then paying more people to build houses later on this decade. Whats the point?

I think they are doing it this way just to keep some people employed.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 06:45 AM
reply to post by Toughiv

This has happened here in Detroit, there are neighborhoods that are virtually empty. What happens is the houses are gutted for the copper wire, fires are set, drug dealers and users squat in the abandoned buildings, and in general crime rises in these areas.

I can understand people's worry that the government will attempt a land grab on these vacant lots (they pretty much have already with the bailouts) How do you think that these insolvent banks are going to pay back the government all the money that you and I have given them?

But keeping empty buildings up just invites crime. The police force in Detroit can't handle it. They need to take down these areas that just harbor criminals. They have to take down these havens for thugs and murderers. The police force, that already is overstretched to the point that Detroit is practically lawless has to be concentrated into an area where they can actually have a chance to do their jobs. Otherwise crime will rise exponentially.

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 06:45 AM
After reading about this I keep telling myself: keep breathing, keep breathing

Why does the Administration think they should be involved in this Flint situation, or any other such situation. If the property is unoccupied then let it sit, leave it alone, don't bulldoze it! Don't reduce its value from next-to-nothing to nothing. Cut off public services to abandoned neighborhoods. Eventually (assuming a robust economy in the future) these areas and their structures could be re-utilized... unless they get bulldozed first.

And what do the property owners think of this?

Crime or not, doing this is beyond the scope of the legitimate powers of the federal government. They need to GTFO.

[edit on 13-6-2009 by spaznational]

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 06:58 AM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 07:14 AM
reply to post by spacedoubt

One city is already there- Hendersonville, NC. They have been ahead on this one for at least several years. They don't like you, they will bend over double backwards to get you thrown off your own land, so they can grab it. You're in the way of a developer wanting to put a condo on your land? You'll go, buddy- or else.

BTW- anyone here play Sim City? I swear on my mother's eyes.... this is where this Kildee or whoever guy has gotten his ideas.

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 09:38 AM

Originally posted by WhatTheory

US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive


Dozens of US cities may have entire neighbourhoods bulldozed as part of drastic "shrink to survive" proposals being considered by the Obama administration to tackle economic decline.
(visit the link for the full news article)

In places like Flint Michigan, the "Experiment" would be appropriate place to try it and see if it works. However, other cities should not even be considered until such a time as the Flint test is complete and results shared openly. Only then can other cities decide if this is a legitimate way to go in downsizing their cities.

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 09:48 AM
wasn't the dems plsans to have everyone own a home ,,, even if you couldn't pay for it

and now 1000's and 1000's are homeless and we're gonna bulldoze entire cities????

go figure,,,

seems kind of backwards to me

sell lottery tickets to win homes for crying out loud, something

[edit on 13-6-2009 by shortywarn]

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:02 AM
I read the article, what I fail to see is how shrinking the city to fit the population will increase its commerce.

will create a small boom in some trades, if they make parks out of entire neighborhoods, no doubt the local nurserys and such will benefit, and of course someone has to pick up the rubble in the first place...but when its all said and done..

well, I guess the city will look better than having just a ton of abandoned buildings around, increasing its value overall...perhaps its the whole hope effect...make a pretty garden and people will come there...

Anyhow, this is not Obama's call...its a pretty good idea, but this is the domain of the mayors of those citys...maybe the governor of the states in question. should it be done? perhaps.

If you dont like it, you can of course goto Flint and buy one of the hundreds of thousands of abandoned homes :-)

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:18 AM

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Couldn't we just carpet bomb them?

It worked well with Dresden and Berlin.

Good idea, you have a future in the USAF, cause that version of this plan worked in Iraq.. now all you have to do is start rumors that the "drug lords" in the "to be razed" parts of town are building WMD's..

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:20 AM
Heh, heh, heh... I agree, I believe that Congress's interference in the housing market and so many other markets over the last few years is exactly what precipitated the Bad Loan Debacle that crippled our banking system. Jeezus H. Christ, anytime our socialist central government attempts to intervene and "fix" the Capitalist system, they are going to break it and make it worse.

As far as the Libs are concerned, since Barack Hussein took office, every day is Christmas and they're going to get every trifling, useless, pusillanimous piece of crap socialist bailout government-funded program they ever imagined, and a whole lot more, even if they have to pay for it in Chinese yuan.

___ Bless America!

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 6/13/2009 by Doc Velocity]

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:28 AM
I grew up in Detroit.. actually in Detroit not a suburb. And to be honest I've always thought since I lived there that bulldozing a lot of the sections of town would be a benefit to society. The decay and destruction of inner cities just keeps spreading out! Like the Borg it just assimilates what were previously decent enough neighborhoods and keeps on moving. The "ghetto" or whatever you want to call it eventually spreads out so far that people attempt to make the core of the cities livable again. This is a reoccurring pattern in many large cities.

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:34 AM
all i have to say is ABOUT TIME! yes, it may seem cruel and heartless to send people out of depreciated ghettos and slums, but like many have said before this, it will cut down on cost and crime, and over time, i believe that it will raise our economy even more.. and i say, why just stop in detroit.. i can think of alot more places where this needs done. especially in the midwest.. do u know how many small towns they have out here that just are rotting away and the old buildings are falling apart? its sad to see, and quite frankly annoying, because even though hardly anyone lives there, they post up speed limits that are outrageously slow, and their all on highways. so, yeah, i say its about time that america has had a "face lift" even though it may cost a couple of people their homes, but maybe this could work if the government gave them money for homes, or relocated them to better homes. like i always say, look towards the solution to the problem, instead of just dwelling on the problem itself.

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:39 AM
There's a good reason for "bulldozing" or rebuilding a part of a city. Many small to medium sized cities have extremely bad infrastructure that hinders public transportation and other conveniences. In my town, the infrastructure is so bad that it takes 2 hrs to go from home to work on a city bus while only 15 minutes by car.

I never thought that anyone would take on such an endeavor, but I stand corrected. This is basically defragmenting work, commerce, public (education, utilities, work), and housing sectors of a town.

So think before condemning something just because it's Obama's idea.

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:44 AM
And if they are bulldozing the recent new construction... understand that these houses only look like real houses... they are built to absolute minimum structural standards.. cheapest way...

There was a one of these 'new construction" houses that I was visiting, and I locked myself out,,, I looked at the door, and the way the wall was constructed of just 2 x 4's...with sheathing.. and I wedged a shovel in the crack of the door and was able to move THE WALL 1/2" away from the door, allowing the door to open...

You cannot do such silly tricks in old construction... So these houses that will be bulldozed are not "real" houses in the sense of the word that older folks consider 'homes', they are more like 'stage sets'.. flimsy affairs.... mere theatricals...

Much like the apparency of civilization is an "apparency" of little internal substance, it is all like a old time western main street stage set with high false fronts, like ENRON... there is very little or nothing actually there.

posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 10:46 AM

This has been going on in Detroit for years now, some by design and some by arson.

Parts of Detroit are completely abandoned or now even claim natural habitat for endangered species because they have been left for so long.

Go ahead bulldoze, many inner city area's need it.

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