US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive

reply to post by Walkswithfish

Maybe the government could start a new subsidized tent cities program for the unemployed and homeless, far from the valued urban property areas, maybe on government lands?

There you go, now your getting the idea. Then they could put fences up around the tent cities (for the citizens protection of course) lights, guard towers, gates, razor wire.

It's PERFECT!

America sure is learning the hard way the meaning of 'Redistribution of Wealth'!

Some of America's wealth is being 'Redistributed' overseas to workers in places like China and India who now have the same job, for an American company that American's once had for that same American company.

Some of the 'Redistribution' of wealth is going to be 'forced' migrations away from 'geographically undesirable' areas that had grown and boomed in centuries and decades past due to their close proximity to natural resources, shipping facilities, or manufacturing bases that are no longer vital or lucrative or desirable in the 21st century.

Isn't it funny how so many people thought 'redistribution of wealth' was going to mean lower taxes for some people and bigger welfare checks for others?

Wow! To think those people could have had a V-8! V-8 engine made in Detroit of American Steel made in Cleveland but hey you love your four cylander Toyota right?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f8ed87002276.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Wow! To think those people could have had a V-8! V-8 engine made in Detroit of American Steel made in Cleveland but hey you love your four cylander Toyota right?

Let's see, the V-8 chugs gas, breaks down almost constantly and needs repair, is loud, and again needs constant repair. Made by a lazy incompetent union employee that has been on the job longer than I have been alive and can't be fired.

Yea I would love a rice burning Toyota built by non union American employees that have to show work ethic to keep their jobs, over some piece of garbage. Thanks.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Wow! To think those people could have had a V-8! V-8 engine made in Detroit of American Steel made in Cleveland but hey you love your four cylander Toyota right?

Let's see, the V-8 chugs gas, breaks down almost constantly and needs repair, is loud, and again needs constant repair. Made by a lazy incompetent union employee that has been on the job longer than I have been alive and can't be fired.

Yea I would love a rice burning Toyota built by non union American employees that have to show work ethic to keep their jobs, over some piece of garbage. Thanks.

You remember that when you are standing in line in a FEMA Camp, waiting for the days meal!

Which V-8 is it that breaks down constantly? Can you tell me the manufacturer and engine code please?

Can you also provide EPA estimated Gasoline Consumption Guidelines for that Engine too?

Can you tell me what car company has designed and given away more safety patents than any other?

Can you tell me which company makes the emissions control module for your Toyota, and which company makes the High Out Put Airconditioning condensor for it?

Then lets flip a coin and see what's worse, a short sighted American who does no real market research and has no facts to backup what is essentially nothing more than a foreign companies marketing ploy who doesn't understand economics 101 and the far reaching effects some spending and purchasing decisions have or a corrupt union worker who at least has the good sense to ask for a real wage so he doesn't have to skimp on gas and horsepower and has the good sense to buy American because he knows keeping that money in America benefits other Americans than himself which ultimately comes back to him.

This way you will at least have a chance of winning one of your absurd contentions.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

You remember that when you are standing in line in a FEMA Camp, waiting for the days meal!

Been there done that, spent a year and a half at one in Arcadia FL.

Let me see, a car manufactured BY AMERICANS, in an AMERICAN plant with a foreign tag, or one built by the UAW union employees that don't give two rats asses about the quality of their product cause they are union and won't loose their job anyway.

Gee, wonder why people are so swift to buy foreign?

The big three can't compete with the foreign makers cause they are cowed by the union who demands too much for too little. Then if they somehow manage to fire a union employee he can still get his job back if he files a grievance with the company. Costing the company more money in the long run.

Ill admit, I can't argue specks with you. Never was a motor head. But I do know lazy union employees can't do what a non union employee that has to work for a living in the same country can do. They can turn out a better product, cause if they don't they loose their job.

All I know is all the American cars I have owned had to have much more service than the foreign cars I have owned.

You wonder why Detroit and Flint are in the shape they are in? It's the UAW that's the reason that Detroit and Flint are such cesspool hell holes that they are. If you don't work for one of the automakers you have to slum by in some mediocre job in areas that would be bad for slums in third world countries.

This is why they need to take down these abandoned buildings, these wretched cesspool slums that people hovel in. They have to cut the cancer from the patient in order for the patient to survive.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

You remember that when you are standing in line in a FEMA Camp, waiting for the days meal!

Been there done that, spent a year and a half at one in Arcadia FL.

Let me see, a car manufactured BY AMERICANS, in an AMERICAN plant with a foreign tag, or one built by the UAW union employees that don't give two rats asses about the quality of their product cause they are union and won't loose their job anyway.

Gee, wonder why people are so swift to buy foreign?

The big three can't compete with the foreign makers cause they are cowed by the union who demands too much for too little. Then if they somehow manage to fire a union employee he can still get his job back if he files a grievance with the company. Costing the company more money in the long run.

Ill admit, I can't argue specks with you. Never was a motor head. But I do know lazy union employees can't do what a non union employee that has to work for a living in the same country can do. They can turn out a better product, cause if they don't they loose their job.

All I know is all the American cars I have owned had to have much more service than the foreign cars I have owned.

You wonder why Detroit and Flint are in the shape they are in? It's the UAW that's the reason that Detroit and Flint are such cesspool hell holes that they are. If you don't work for one of the automakers you have to slum by in some mediocre job in areas that would be bad for slums in third world countries.

This is why they need to take down these abandoned buildings, these wretched cesspool slums that people hovel in. They have to cut the cancer from the patient in order for the patient to survive.

So in other words you simply are talking to talk?

Have you ever stopped to ponder since you are going with your very own limited experience and your own highly biased oppinions and assumptions without one shred of scientific concrete data other than your presonal oppinion that you not only are being totally unfair to the people and products that you are defaming but that putting those oppinions out there as facts in fact is in large part what has so damaged these cities and made it so easy for American business to export jobs and lower wages?

Do you just want to talk about problems, or do you want to be a part of the problem...

Personally I see nothing delightful or noble or even honest or accurate in what you are doing.

Why don't you consider that you made a strong statement and that you should do some strong research to back it up, because heaven forbid you just might find out you are wrong in the process?

Meanwhile you keep worrying about the selfishness of the union worker.

Keep pretending that there aren't more American cars on the road than foreign made ones, and keep pretending that they don't have millions upoin millions of happy owners and repeat buyers.

Cause after all why think about doing anything to help your nation when it's down when you can kick it instead?

I guess you really liked the FEMA Camp huh?



[edit on 12/6/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Ok, ill give, whatever, let's get back on topic shall we?

Have you looked around at Flint and Detroit lately? These cities do need to be condensed. Between the burnt out buildings, the abandoned buildings and the scum slithering around the streets. It's no wonder that they want to take out those houses.

Take a trip around Detroit for a while, see why the police are stretched so thin they can't do their jobs properly. Tell me that we shouldn't take out these horrid wretched slums around America and shrink the cities.

When you do, you will reduce crime, you will reduce squalor, you will make these cities better places to live and work.

That will bring more jobs to these cities. Jobs that people in these places desperately need. That way they can stop getting handouts from the government, stop using drugs to escape from how horrid their life and surroundings are, stop killing each other. Because if they had decent jobs, they would have more self respect, that self respect would translate into civic pride. Something that Detroit and Flint have in short supply.

I as a independent conservative and not a fan of the Obama administration must give credit where due....

At face value I support this policy.
Returning derelict tracts of urban blight to its former natural condition is the type of eco-friendly green initiative I can get behind.


However, if this turns out to be a land grab by big government whereby the STATE/FEDS become owners of and control these large swaths of once privately owned real estate...

Well then I will consider the policy another attack on the private sector by those who seek to strip its citizens of their liberty.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by whatukno
Some parts of Flint and Detroit are almost ghost towns. They only really harbor criminals and drugs.

I don't see the problem with this.

Obviously, I take it, you have not witnessed this up close.

My old neighborhood in Detroit, where I grew up for 24 years is quite literally, a ghost town. On my block, where 34 houses use to be, there are currently 10 standing, with probably 4 of those abandoned. That is not an exaggeration. There are not business hardly around either, where there used to be 5 fast food places, there is now one. The same goes for most other businesses. It's to the point where there is nothing really to save or build off of.

I can't see trying to resurrect my old neighborhood, it would be better for it to just go back to being wilderness or farms.

Ha ha ha, let me rain on the parade. The big 3 have been in the portfolio of World Order Power Broker's for ever, and a day. Most all industries above mid management are controlled by one "organization" or another.

We live in a world of pyramid schemes. Different schemes overlap, and others seem completely detached. It just depends on what the particular interests are, and the 20 year outlook into where they want to move an agenda.

With that said, Dan Kildee is no original. He might be what the NWO want you to focus on, but by no means is the idea his own. The enemy to the NWO is We The People....PERIOD. They usually work by soft subversion. They get us used to an idea, and it begins to get easier to swallow....frog in boiling water, type of thing.

The overall goal of the bulldozing of neighborhoods is to crowd us into their smart growth utopia of slaves. Just wait until this next fall, and winter, or the next. Wait until they've recombined their multi virus flu with something unexpected.

Uh, oh, what if they combine it with something that is more of a 'permanent' virus, then the death tolls from it, and the vaccines will leave many more house vacant. We'll be bulldozing a lot more homes in the near NWO future.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by sanchoearlyjones]

Originally posted by WhatTheory

What?

So now the Obama administration can abuse it's powers even more by bulldozing a town or city that it deems unfit. If a town or city is not going along with Obama's plans then lets just bulldoze it over. I see lots of opportunity for abuse here.

We all know how eminent domain has been abused so why would this particular policy be any different?

This is NOT up to the federal government to decide. If anytjhing, the local towns or state should decide such things and NOT the federal government.

www.telegrap h.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 6/12/2009 by WhatTheory]

The telegraph is not a trustworthy source, they are known for "creating news".


OP, I do not know what made you jump the gun on this. We are talking about a movement that say the day back in 2004 and who has done case studies on this.

It is not like it is going to happen tomorrow, it was just an idea brought forth and a damned good one on paper In my honest opinion. Bulldoze down abandoned crack houses, plant trees, heck yeah!

In all seriousness tho, I wouldn't get my panties bunched up in a wad over this article nor would I put blame on the current president acting upon that suggestion for this movement is worldwide and just not confined to the United States.

Taken from their web page

Today SCiRN™ comprises 30 members from 14 countries (Australia, Brazil, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, Korea, Mexico, Poland, Russia, Spain, Taiwan, UK, and the USA) and a PhD Academy constituted of 14 young researchers (from Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Poland, Spain, UK and Taiwan).

The Shrinking Cities International Research Network™

Here is an interesting audio from a talk show recorded earlier today about Dan Kildee's pet project.

www.kcrw.com...


It is not like Obama's dream team is gonna go up in arms and start bulldozing cities over a suggestion for they do not have the time, the energy nor the a$$ets for that type of project and as for Obama, I frankly believe that he does not give a flying fudge unless it concerns him flying his wife for another night in Paris.

Originally posted by GuyverUnit I
However, if this turns out to be a land grab by big government whereby the STATE/FEDS become owners of and control these large swaths of once privately owned real estate...

Of course this is what will happen. When has the government NOT abused their power. Just look at all the abuse of power regarding eminent domain.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by GuyverUnit I
However, if this turns out to be a land grab by big government whereby the STATE/FEDS become owners of and control these large swaths of once privately owned real estate...

Of course this is what will happen. When has the government NOT abused their power. Just look at all the abuse of power regarding eminent domain.

I don't live in the states and I am curious what you are referring to with eminent domain.

reply to post by Tamale_214


Yes, that is where in the "Land of the Free", and the "Home of the Brave" the US Govt. can come in and take your property for the good of the "people".

Originally posted by Tamale_214
I don't live in the states and I am curious what you are referring to with eminent domain.

Eminent domain is basically a supposed "lawful" way to seize control of private property.

Eminent Domain: Being Abused?

This is just one story of many in which the government is abusing their power.

[edit on 6/12/2009 by WhatTheory]

I'm perplexed with this idea, which incidentally isn't Obama's — it's the brainchild of a county official in Michigan, a guy who wants to knock down about 40% of Flint, Michigan, because they can no longer afford the upkeep on this ghost town. Yeah, it's whole abandoned neighborhoods and former commercial districts...just a lot of empty buildings. That much of the plan I can understand, and I even agree with it.

What perplexes me, however, is that the Obama administration wants to study the Flint plan and see how it can be applied across America, in hellholes such as Detroit.

I don't know how many of you have visited Detroit — particularly the East Side of Detroit — but "hellhole" is too kind a word to describe it. It's a nasty, depressing, crime-ridden jungle to which I wouldn't exile my worst enemy. Last time I had to drive through that pit of horrors, I ran about half the stoplights, just so I didn't slow down below 50 mph.

Detroit's problem is that it's not a ghost town; if it was simply an uninhabited expanse of abandoned buildings, I'd say screw the bulldozers, drop The Bomb on it.

But it is inhabited. Detroit is the 11th largest city in the U.S., with a population of about a million. The population is more than 80% black. There are about 7000 people per square mile. The per capita income in the city is about $15K. About 26% of the population and 22% of families live below the poverty line. 35% of those under the age of 18 and 19% of those 65 and older live below the poverty line. (All data from the U.S. Census)

In other words, if Detroit isn't a ghetto by definition, it'll do until a ghetto comes along.

Now, how do you apply this "bulldozer" plan to a heavily populated ghetto? Who gets displaced? Where do they go? Do we flatten Detroit's East Side, turn it into a giant municipal park full of impatiens and hummingbirds, and build a whole new range of urban housing projects that will be utterly destroyed in ten years' time?

Hey, pardon me if this sounds pessimistic or — God help me — racist, but I'm not going to play word games with you and pretend that urban housing projects have not been a blight on the American landscape. Tell you what, if you can show me a "successful" project, one with clean landscaping and uplifting architecture and functional plumbing and air conditioning and happy families and low crime rate, I will kiss your ass... Then I'll invite you down to the projects in Charlotte, NC, or Atlanta, GA, or Houston, TX, and show you the truth of the matter.

I mean, if this bulldozer plan involves relocating the poverty-stricken to urban housing projects — and you know that's what will happen — then we're just stalling the decline of the cities, not fixing it. In a decade's time, we'll have dilapidated "projects" and urban ghettos and crime in the streets as usual.

As far as I can tell, bulldozing a few buildings and shuffling the ghettos around is not a lasting solution, but merely a means of postponing urban decline for another more competent administration to tackle.

— Doc Velocity





[edit on 6/12/2009 by Doc Velocity]

reply to post by WhatTheory


Thanks for the link. I have indeed read about this and it is completely shameful. I wonder though, if eminent domain were not a part of city reclamation as discussed in this thread and it was not a threat to be concerned with. What would you propose as a solution rather than reclaiming the 'dead' parts of the city as is being proposed?




[edit on 12-6-2009 by Tamale_214]

I am in favor of bulldozing entire neighborhoods in order for a community/city/town, to survive.

Too many communities and people take drastic government and associations and police to control.

Think of it as pruning an apple tree. You must prune the unwanted growth in order to make a larger more pleasurable fruit. !

reply to post by WhatTheory

You know what the VERY best part of this is ?

It is this.

1)When they foreclose on a house that has PMI the insurance pays off.

2)They get the property and can sell it.

3)They take the bad loan from the house, roll it into a credit default
swap principal, plus interest, plus fees and sell it as a derivative to
a fund and hide the fact it is a bad debt on the penny stock market
that is not regulated by the SEC.

Derivatives nightmare used to loot 401k's, pensions, and banks

4) Then the crowning achievement they get a bailout for over
700 billion dollars that keeps growing, and a stimulus that didn't
go to the ppl that lose their homes. THEN the fed prints 12 trillion
that they refuse to explain and hands it over to them.

5) They pay the AIG critters bonuses to buy their silence, then
decide to QUADRUPLE the bonuses even after huge public outcry.

AIG bonus anger is answered with 400% increase

We are witnessing the greatest theft in modern history and some
ppl knew it was coming as far back as 2002.

Warren Buffet's warning

So for those who can comprehend a weapon of financial destruction
looming that dwarfs all the disasters thus far, prepare accordingly.

Precious metals will not matter as much as Food, Water, Shelter,
and self defense when this fully unspools.

Good Luck to you all !