Top 10 Reasons People Hate Americans, page 8

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reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 07:25 PM by stumason

Originally posted by Shadowflux
I didn't mean that you have to wait for political approval, I meant that I personally have the mental, spiritual and philosophical capacity to generate my own concept of a free and successful life and am able to implement and live by it regardless of societal or political opinion. More over, being an American I have the right and freedom to live my life accordingly without fear of government intervention as long as I'm not hurting anyone else. In addition, I have the judicial ability to argue and appeal my case if the government does decide to intervene.

What? And the rest of us don't?

Oh, by the way, you don't "have the right and freedom to live my life accordingly without fear of government intervention as long as I'm not hurting anyone else".

Try growing cannabis, or driving without a license (even if your driving is impeccable) or not paying your taxes, for example. I can think of many more things, but those three should suffice for now.

reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 07:35 PM by Shadowflux

reply to post by stumason

I smoke cannabis all the time, I never pay taxes and I have never needed to drive anywhere and therefore never needed a license.

You can try as hard as you like but you won't get me to turn my back on my country, there are a few Americans with some backbone left.

I don't expect you to understand, I guess your family never built a country before.

reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 07:57 PM by stumason

reply to post by Shadowflux

You totally miss the point I was making, probably delibrately in a vain attempt to justify your position.

Firstly, you might smoke it all the time, but your not actually allowed to, are you?

If the fuzz found out, you'd be in nick. So "your right to live your life as you see fit" is not actually that, you're just getting away with something you haven't been caught for yet. A totally different thing.

That's like saying "I have the right to molest kids", just because you do it all the time and haven't been caught and punished, not actually because you do have the right.

Secondly, I'd question why you don't pay taxes. Don't you work? Again, if you're actually avoiding tax, that is illegal and if they found out, you'd be in jail. Again, not really a right you enjoy, just a fact you haven't been caught yet.

And you might well not drive, but if you did, you would need a license. If you drove without one and got caught, you'd be arrested. Again, not really a right you enjoy.

I have no interest in making you turn your back on your country, I am just pointing out the rediculousness of your posts. You seem to be under the impression you have the freedom to do as you please, which you don't.

You also seem to be under the impression that the rest of the world is some dictatorship where we don't enjoy even the most basic of rights that you seem to think you have, which is wrong. Have you ever been outside the USA? Ever been to Europe?

EDIT: Oh the bit about the family was a pathetic swipe, what do you know? I have no need to justify my family history, even though I can trace it back at least 450 years to before your country was even created.

[edit on 19/6/09 by stumason]

reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 08:08 PM by Shadowflux

reply to post by stumason

I actually think you're missing the point. Let me explain it simply:

My position is that I love my country, I'm proud of it, and I'm sick of people telling me why I should hate it and feel bad about being an American. I'm tired of people thinking I'm stupid, arrogant, ignorant, poorly informed, illiterate, hate monger, war monger, imperialist etc etc etc just because I'm a patriot.

Your position seems to be that I should hate my country and be ashamed of it because we're not perfect and other people in other countries don't like it.

I see you are a "Proud Englishman", how would you like it if I made a list of the "Top Ten Reasons England Sucks", I could go on for pages and pages of reasons why you shouldn't like England but you will never stop loving your country or being proud of it.

I know you think it's stupid, that I'm being an arrogant redneck "typical yank" but I'm afraid you just don't know me well enough. You can say America is no freer than any other country but you obviously don't know America as well as you like to think you do.

Here is my position in the simplest terms possible:

I'm sick of hearing it!!!!

EDIT: This may be part of the reason my family left England in the first place, sheesh

[edit on 19-6-2009 by Shadowflux]

reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 08:18 PM by stumason

reply to post by Shadowflux

I understand you position quite clearly, the point I am addressing and the one you seem to unable to grasp is your claim that you have more freedoms than the rest of the world and you can do as you plase, which is simply false.

Care to address that point instead of drivelling on about something I have made no mention of. You claim:

Your position seems to be that I should hate my country and be ashamed of it because we're not perfect and other people in other countries don't like it.

Which is not based upon anything I have said in this thread at all. My posts in this thread have simply been confined to correcting false claims, such as inventing the TV and Radio, or your claims you are "more free". No where have I said you should hate your country or that I hate your country.

EDIT: Your family probably left England because they were religous extremists or deported. I doubt there was much "choice" in the matter.

You can say America is no freer than any other country but you obviously don't know America as well as you like to think you do.

And you obviously have no clue what the rest of the world is like outside the USA.

[edit on 19/6/09 by stumason]

reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 08:30 PM by Shadowflux

reply to post by stumason

Actually, my family probably left England because coming from Ireland and Scotland it was your family and country oppressing and starving them to death, but now we're REALLY going back so theres no point.

We're freer than other countries because freedom is the heart and soul of America. Freedom from oppression brought us here and the desire for freedom caused us to break off from England. Freedom is what drove us farther west, it's what built the railways and factories and what seeded the farms.

Freedom is what we hold most dear (discounting the sheep of course). All of our laws and procedures are designed with the private citizen in mind. America was founded for the people, by the people as a nation where the government was meant to be subservient to the population.

The American people were also vested with the powers to properly secure and protect those freedoms even from our own government hence why we have the right to keep and bare arms, the freedom of press, assembly and (not everyone knows this) the right to reserve specific rights not expressly mentioned by other laws!

No where in history will you find a nation like America.

EDIT: Stop editing your posts while I'm writing a reply, thats cheating you know

[edit on 19-6-2009 by Shadowflux]

reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 08:38 PM by stumason

Originally posted by Shadowflux
Actually, my family probably left England because coming from Ireland and Scotland it was your family and country oppressing and starving them to death, but now we're REALLY going back so theres no point.

Ah, another one so completely suckered in by Hollywood revisionist history...

Originally posted by Shadowflux
We're freer than other countries because freedom is the heart and soul of America. Freedom from oppression brought us here and the desire for freedom caused us to break off from England. Freedom is what drove us farther west, it's what built the railways and factories and what seeded the farms.

Actually, it was a desire by the rich landowners to not pay taxes to the King that caused the breakaway. The common people were told it was for "your freedoms" and you still are, but that wasn't the cause. And many people in the fledgling USA actually supported the King and fought for Britain, so there obviosuly wasn't the widespread public revolt you are taught in your history classes. It was Rich people out to make themselves richer and they duped the common man into backing the idea.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
Freedom is what we hold most dear (discounting the sheep of course). All of our laws and procedures are designed with the private citizen in mind. America was founded for the people, by the people as a nation where the government was meant to be subservient to the population.

And how did that work out for you? Seems to me that the Government is now subservient to Corporations and the "private citizen" gets shafted.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
The American people were also vested with the powers to properly secure and protect those freedoms even from our own government hence why we have the right to keep and bare arms, the freedom of press, assembly and (not everyone knows this) the right to reserve specific rights not expressly mentioned by other laws!

All ideas directly lifted from the Bill of Rights 1689 in England and the French revolution. Nothing new there, you just copied it. Your just displaying your ignorance of history and other countries there chap. Ever heard of English Common Law? I'm sure you have...

Originally posted by Shadowflux
No where in history will you find a nation like America.

Indeed....

Such arrogance.

[edit on 19/6/09 by stumason]

reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 08:53 PM by Shadowflux

reply to post by stumason

Actually, the French Revolution was after the American Revolution and borrowed heavily from us, since Benjamin Franklin was a close friend with France and all. In fact, France was one of our biggest allies during the Revolution.

And there is nothing fantasy about what the English did to the Irish, it was just that the Scotts beat you guys.

I know you think you know so much about American history but you obviously have never stopped to think that your knowledge is completely biased and factually incorrect.

I love the fact that my patriotism is driving you totally bonkers.

Still a little ticked about losing the Revolution to a bunch of "upstart rebels" maybe?

reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 09:07 PM by stumason

Originally posted by Shadowflux
Actually, the French Revolution was after the American Revolution and borrowed heavily from us, since Benjamin Franklin was a close friend with France and all. In fact, France was one of our biggest allies during the Revolution.

Perhaps I should have said borrowed from French philosphical ideas that led to their Revolution, yet I see you have no retort for the English Common law or Bill of Rights you lifted from us?

Originally posted by Shadowflux
And there is nothing fantasy about what the English did to the Irish, it was just that the Scotts beat you guys.

Pray tell, what did we do? It seems to me that it was largely Scots settlers moving into Ireland and benefiting from the Plantation of Ulster. The common English man had no say or desire to be in Ireland. Ireland was originally conquered by the Normans right after they took control over England. It was then taken again by the Tudor Kings of England, with the Scots being planted as settlers.

And how did the Scots beat us? Been watching Braveheart, have we?

Originally posted by Shadowflux
I know you think you know so much about American history but you obviously have never stopped to think that your knowledge is completely biased and factually incorrect.

I could say the same about you. You're still under the misapprehension that you are "more free" than anywhere in the world, yet don't really cite any evidence of this. Aside from being able to own a big "manly" gun, which I do not care for anwyay, what can you do I cannot?

Originally posted by Shadowflux
I love the fact that my patriotism is driving you totally bonkers.

Not really, don't let it go to your head. It's 3 am and I'm bored at work, so I amuse myself debating with you.

Originally posted by Shadowflux
Still a little ticked about losing the Revolution to a bunch of "upstart rebels" maybe?

Not really. After the revolution we went on to have the worlds largest ever Empire, can't say it affected us much.

reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 10:14 PM by Shadowflux

reply to post by stumason

Well, I'm glad I could keep you entertained while you slack off from work.

I never denied that our Bill of Rights borrowed from yours (that's well known) but we certainly did improve upon it. In addition, which I suppose you didn't know (maybe you never read it?) our Constitution is actually much larger than the "Bill of Rights" which is simply the first ten amendments.

In addition to owning guns, we also have the ability to have a television without a license because our government doesn't drive around our neighborhoods with RF detectors arresting people illegally watching tv.

Also, I don't think your Bill of Rights includes the ability for individual citizens to reserve rights and have them argued for in court in the case of an arrest that goes against said reserved right.

In addition, your police force is allowed much broader freedom over the populace and are allowed to commit "Warantless Arrests" based on "reasonable grounds to suspect" where as our police must have "probable cause" that can be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt". We have so many freedoms as individual citizens here that the police are often serious encumbered in an investigation.

The "Glorious Empire" you are so fond of was responsible for countless numbers of atrocities and horrible deeds, the subjugation of India and the little issue of turning China into a country of Opium addicts come quickly to mind.

Nothing I say will ever convince you that any country could possibly be better than your "Glorious England", hell, look at your avatar. We're really supposed to think you're impartial?

Honestly, it doesn't matter what you think of me, my ideas or my country, I'm going to keep enjoying my freedom and you can keep enjoying your funny take on history.

You know, from a conspiracy standpoint, all that stuff about corporations and banks owning the government is England's fault. The Bank of England charters the Federal Reserve, who has been mostly responsible for our economic troubles.

reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 11:00 PM by dooper

Speaking strictly as an American, I really don't give a damn why people may hate us.

Why should I care what some damned foreigner thinks about me or my country?

I do know that the next time, me and my boys will sit it out, and let others figure out their own problems.

No use creating more American cemeteries in any more foreign lands.

We have plenty enough already.

reply posted on 19-6-2009 @ 11:05 PM by Shadowflux

reply to post by dooper

This is really my point as well, I don't care what other people think of America.

More over, I'm really sick of hearing about it. That's why I broke my rule about pointless cyclical arguments with people. I'm so sick of hearing about it I'm not going to sit by and take it anymore.

There is at least one person still proud of America!!

reply posted on 20-6-2009 @ 03:42 PM by Majestic23

Originally posted by Shadowflux
There is at least one person still proud of America!!

Ive been trying hard to explain why I think Americans have the impression the world "hates" them. Why did I bother?

Your attitude is the reason why! You are the perfect example!

reply posted on 21-6-2009 @ 11:50 AM by Shadowflux

reply to post by Majestic23

If the world hates America simply because I love America than you've proven my previous point (where I said people hate America because we love it).

Also, people will just have to keep hating me and my country because I won't stop loving it.

reply posted on 21-6-2009 @ 01:06 PM by Majestic23

See what I mean?

Bonkers.