Reasonable penalties?

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Originally posted by Donnie Darko


Okay, I agree that it's worse to molest a child than to screw a person over financially.

But don't you think the crimes of Bernie Madoff and the others like him who weren't punished are of a grander scale than the losers they catch on Dateline with Chris Hansen?

I dont even know who that is-I'm assumiing it's one of those "To Catch a Predator" shows(I dont watch tv)?

Yes, Bernie Maddoff and people of that nature dese4rve to be jailed, but that isnt even the same sports as child molestation.

Do you think even Hitler is good compared to them? LOL

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

So what you are saying is that you would rather have me rape your kid than embezzle your money?

No! What I'm saying is corporate fraudsters destroy thousands of people's lives.

No, they destroy their financial life. Rapists and child molestors destroy REAL lives.

But sometimes they do destroy real lives. People kill themselves over it.

They can lose their homes, their spouses, their way of life ... it is very much a damage in a way similar (though different) to victims of sex crimes.

It is a choice to let finances destroy your life.

Sexual abuse doesnt give you that choice.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko


Do you think even Hitler is good compared to them? LOL

Hopefully that was a joke. This subject is not something I will laugh about.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


No, they just take your money. You can go make more money, but a child who has been molested or a woman who has been raped can never get their innocence or sense of security back. I agree with cautiouslypessimistic, you need to go do some volenteer work with victims of such crimes.

Trust me, if someone swindled you out of your money, you would want them locked up for a very long time, but if some sick b@$#% raped your kid, you would want his/her head on a pike!

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Originally posted by Donnie Darko


Do you think even Hitler is good compared to them? LOL

Hopefully that was a joke. This subject is not something I will laugh about.

No I'm just saying. People often don't give a crap if something happens to someone, unless they're a kid. It's so primitive.

I despise pedophiles too, but the hate sometimes seems never-ending. And why are sex crimes so much worse than violent crimes? Is it for the same reason it's okay to show someone's guts on TV but not their nipples?

I think all violence and all abuse sucks. No matter what.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

No, they just take your money. You can go make more money, but a child who has been molested or a woman who has been raped can never get their innocence or sense of security back. I agree with cautiouslypessimistic, you need to go do some volenteer work with victims of such crimes.

Trust me, if someone swindled you out of your money, you would want them locked up for a very long time, but if some sick b@$#% raped your kid, you would want his/her head on a pike!

There is hope for victims though. Maybe the reason they never recover is because people tell them they can never recover.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Originally posted by Donnie Darko


Do you think even Hitler is good compared to them? LOL

Hopefully that was a joke. This subject is not something I will laugh about.

No I'm just saying. People often don't give a crap if something happens to someone, unless they're a kid. It's so primitive.

I despise pedophiles too, but the hate sometimes seems never-ending. And why are sex crimes so much worse than violent crimes? Is it for the same reason it's okay to show someone's guts on TV but not their nipples?

I think all violence and all abuse sucks. No matter what.

Im not claiming that they are worse than truly violent crimes(hell, they ARE violent crimes).

What I'm saying is they are FAR more sever than monetary crime.

It is a choice to let finances destroy your life.

Sexual abuse doesnt give you that choice.

I think we should focus on empowering the victims, not getting back at the a-holes that did it.

20+ for rape regardless of age.

and lets take corporate fraud this way.

5-10 for each count. 1 count = 1 person defrauded. ie defrauding 100 people is a guaranteed life sentence.

Originally posted by eNumbra
20+ for rape regardless of age.

and lets take corporate fraud this way.

5-10 for each count. 1 count = 1 person defrauded. ie defrauding 100 people is a guaranteed life sentence.

Yes. I totally agree.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

No, they just take your money. You can go make more money, but a child who has been molested or a woman who has been raped can never get their innocence or sense of security back. I agree with cautiouslypessimistic, you need to go do some volenteer work with victims of such crimes.

Trust me, if someone swindled you out of your money, you would want them locked up for a very long time, but if some sick b@$#% raped your kid, you would want his/her head on a pike!

There is hope for victims though. Maybe the reason they never recover is because people tell them they can never recover.

Please, go do some volunteer work.

Most of these people HAVE to be surrounded by support, people telling them it's okay, reassuring them, helping rebuild their self confidence, or they dont make it.

The ones that get that support survive, but are scarred for life and never the same(most of the children end up with deep mental trauma that takes an entire life of therapy to even begin to get through).

The ones that dont get support dont last very long.

The ones that get that support survive, but are scarred for life and never the same(most of the children end up with deep mental trauma that takes an entire life of therapy to even begin to get through).

The ones that dont get support dont last very long.

What about people like Oprah Winfrey and Ellen DeGeneres, who were sexually abused?

They seem to be happy now.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

It is a choice to let finances destroy your life.

Sexual abuse doesnt give you that choice.

I think we should focus on empowering the victims, not getting back at the a-holes that did it.

Ill agree with you there, however, youa re wanting to go after the a-holes taht stole money(MONEY, a material thing) and not the victims. Why the disconnect?

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

The ones that get that support survive, but are scarred for life and never the same(most of the children end up with deep mental trauma that takes an entire life of therapy to even begin to get through).

The ones that dont get support dont last very long.

What about people like Oprah Winfrey and Ellen DeGeneres, who were sexually abused?

They seem to be happy now.

Yes, and both of them have stated MANY times that they had support. And you know what? I GUARANTEE you that both of them still deal with the demons from that abuse. GUARANTEE.

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

It is a choice to let finances destroy your life.

Sexual abuse doesnt give you that choice.

I think we should focus on empowering the victims, not getting back at the a-holes that did it.

Ill agree with you there, however, youa re wanting to go after the a-holes taht stole money(MONEY, a material thing) and not the victims. Why the disconnect?

Okay I change my mind. I think each person you defraud should be five years in jail.

But when it's on such a large SCALE, it is a crime against humanity. Child molestation is a crime against a person, unless it's a serial offender.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

It is a choice to let finances destroy your life.

Sexual abuse doesnt give you that choice.

I think we should focus on empowering the victims, not getting back at the a-holes that did it.

Ill agree with you there, however, youa re wanting to go after the a-holes taht stole money(MONEY, a material thing) and not the victims. Why the disconnect?

Okay I change my mind. I think each person you defraud should be five years in jail.

But when it's on such a large SCALE, it is a crime against humanity. Child molestation is a crime against a person, unless it's a serial offender.

I dont buy it. Unless you are talking about thrusting an entire nation into poverty, it is not a crime against humanity. It is a crime against individuals.

And some of the people who are defrauded can't recover.

Take identity theft. Having that happen to you causes a lot of the same traumas as rape. Your security is taken away, it is much harder to enjoy life, you have to go through all the legal trouble.

It is not just money, and it is not only rich people that are defrauded. It is an act of emotional violence.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


OK, then let's try this from a different angle. Someone who is guilty of corporate fraud will never be in the position to do it again. A child molester or rapist, however, WILL almost definitely offend again if given the chance! I would much rather have Bernie Madoff move next door to me than a sexual preditor!

[edit on 12-6-2009 by JaxonRoberts]

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
And some of the people who are defrauded can't recover.

Take identity theft. Having that happen to you causes a lot of the same traumas as rape. Your security is taken away, it is much harder to enjoy life, you have to go through all the legal trouble.

It is not just money, and it is not only rich people that are defrauded. It is an act of emotional violence.

Again, this is BS. I have been a victim of identity theft. Other than the hours and hours I spent on the phone working to correct it, it did not change anything about my life.

To compare that to rape and/or molestation of a child is disgusting and offensive.

You are still trying to compare a material crime to a physical/emotional one.

[edit on 6/12/2009 by cautiouslypessimistic]

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

OK, then let's try this from a different angle. Someone who is guilty of corporate fraud will never be in the position to do it again. A child molester of rapist, however, WILL almost definitely offend again if given the chance! I would much rather have Bernie Madoff move next door to me than a sexual preditor!

That is a good point. I agree with you. However, someone like Madoff is still a sociopath and could hurt people in other ways.

I think people have more sympathy for him because he's rich. That's why people aren't calling for R. Kelly to get the electric chair ...