Googol-sized Particles Larger Than Thousands of Galaxies Fill the Universe -New Discovery

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An ancient subatomic signature extends across the universe. It seems that some subatomic particles, invisible and untouchable effects of the very creation of reality, might exist simultaneously across all of space. We're honestly surprised people who say science is boring don't spontaneously combust from the foolishness of their statements.

"Relic" neutrinos, like the relic photons that make up the cosmic microwave background, are leftovers from the hot, dense early universe that prevailed 13.7 billion years ago. But over the lifetime of the cosmos, these relic neutrinos have been stretched out by the expansion of the universe, enlarging the range in which each neutrino can exist.

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"We're talking maybe up to roughly ten billion light-years" for each neutrino, said study co-author George Fuller of the University of California, San Diego. "That's nearly on the order of the size of the observable universe." These oldest of the subatomic particles might each encompass a space larger than thousands of galaxies, new simulations suggest.

While trying to calculate masses for neutrinos, Fuller and his student Chad Kishimoto found that, as the universe has expanded, the fabric of space-time has been tugging at ancient neutrinos, stretching the particles' ranges over vast distances.

Such large ranges can remain intact, the scientists suggest in the May 22 issue of Physical Review Letters, since neutrinos pass right through most of the universe's matter. The big question is whether gravity—say, the pull from an entire galaxy—can force a meganeutrino to collapse down to a single location.

"Quantum mechanics was intended to describe the universe on the smallest of scales, and now here we're talking about how it works on the largest scales in the universe," Kishimoto said. "We're talking about physics that hasn't been explored before."

more...

www.newscientist.com...

scitation.aip.org...

physicalsciences.ucsd.edu...

It's astonishing stuff, not just for the cosmo-experts but the casual fan. Because even trying to wrap your mind around such concepts is like a gym for your brain, and a booster for your sense of awe.



[edit on 12-6-2009 by warrenb]

reply to post by warrenb


Nice find WB! The Universe is bloody amazing!

IRM

[edit on 12/6/09 by InfaRedMan]

Isn't science just wonderful. I love hearing things like this. It makes me wonder what we'll know in the next 50 years. I just hope I'm still around to find out.

...even trying to wrap your mind around such concepts is like a gym for your brain, and a booster for your sense of awe.

I've been trying to wrap my head around the universe for years. It's simply mind boggling. But I love it.

the first thing this made me think of is (i am way wrong here, just trying to explain what i am talking about since i cant think of its name) the effect of two plasma balls being made from one object, then one ball of plasma is spun. the neat part is the other ball of plasma regardless of how great the distance between the two, it will spin immediately, , even if say it were on the other side of the solar system, greatly surpassing the speed limit placed on light.


i cant help but think maybe these neutrinos are responsible.


if anyone knows the name of the experiment i am talking about, please let me know, its really buggin me

I love hearing this stuff, amazing.

The second part of this crash-course in cosmologically relevant physics is quantum theory. Particles can be "spread out" as a wavefunction - a representation of possible states - until they're observed and the wave collapses into a single fact. While that explanation is so horrifically simplified it would make a quantum scientists eyes bleed, it's good enough for now. The wavefunction of relic neutrinos from the big bang is on the length scale of the universe itself. They literally are sort of everywhere, because the only thing which can "observe" them is gigantic black holes or galaxies.

lol

Originally posted by shortest man walking
the first thing this made me think of is (i am way wrong here, just trying to explain what i am talking about since i cant think of its name) the effect of two plasma balls being made from one object, then one ball of plasma is spun. the neat part is the other ball of plasma regardless of how great the distance between the two, it will spin immediately, , even if say it were on the other side of the solar system, greatly surpassing the speed limit placed on light.


i cant help but think maybe these neutrinos are responsible.


if anyone knows the name of the experiment i am talking about, please let me know, its really buggin me

I thought about this too...

If these "stretched neutrinos" are single particles, could they provide an instantaneous information link across vasts distances?

Does one end of a stretched neutrino instantaneously know what happens at the other end -- even if both ends are millions or billions of light years apart?


[edit on 6/12/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

reply to post by warrenb


here come those crazy neutrinos again, you know, the ones we've never found. not a single solitary one.

all scientific discovries involving deep space should have a disclaimer:

"This information is purely for entertainment and should not be taken seriously. Everything you are reading is at best, pure speculation and was proven wrong 50+ years ago although it's a little too profitable to let go."

this is just another thing in an ever increasing line of BS passed off as science.

string theory, dark matter, dark energy, dark energy flows, black holes, big bangs, quasars etc etc etc

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
If these "stretched neutrinos" are single particles, could they provide an instantaneous information link across vasts distances?

We think alike, I was wondering the same thing when i read this. I suspect the "handwavium trick" would be to control the collapse of the wave function. In order to be useful for communication you have to control where the particle collapses to, and I think that quantum mechanics would tell us that you can't control the collapse any more than you can force schrodinger's cat to be dead or alive. The ability to do so would indicate one has a "star trek-like" grasp of quantum states, heisenberg compensators and all.

Originally posted by Moodle
reply to post by warrenb

 

here come those crazy neutrinos again, you know, the ones we've never found. not a single solitary one.

Antineutrinos were first detected in 1956 near a nuclear reactor. Reines and Cowan used two targets containing a solution of cadmium chloride in water. Two scintillation detectors were placed next to the cadmium targets. Antineutrino with an energy above the threshold of 1.8 MeV caused charged current interactions with the protons in the water, producing positrons and neutrons. The resulting positron annihilations with electrons created photons with an energy of about 0.5 MeV. Pairs of photons in coincidence could be detected by the two scintillation detectors above and below the target. The neutrons were captured by cadmium nuclei resulting in gamma rays of about 8 MeV that were detected a few microseconds after the photons from a positron annihilation event.

This experiment was designed by Cowan and Reines to give a unique signature for antineutrinos, to prove the existence of these particles. It was not the experimental goal to measure the total antineutrino flux. The detected antineutrinos thus all carried an energy greater 1.8 MeV, which is the threshold for the reaction channel used (1.8 MeV is the energy needed to create a positron and a neutron from a proton). Only about 3% of the antineutrinos from a nuclear reactor carry enough energy for the reaction to occur.

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 12-6-2009 by ngchunter]

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
If these "stretched neutrinos" are single particles, could they provide an instantaneous information link across vasts distances?

...In order to be useful for communication you have to control where the particle collapses to, and I think that quantum mechanics would tell us that you can't control the collapse any more than you can force schrodinger's cat to be dead or alive...

When I say "information link" I'm not talking only about a means of human communication. I'm talking about those experiments (as mentioned by ATS member "shortest man walking") that seem to show two particles literally instantaneously reacting to one another even though they are separated by a distance.

[edit on 6/12/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by System
Isn't science just wonderful. I love hearing things like this. It makes me wonder what we'll know in the next 50 years. I just hope I'm still around to find out.

...even trying to wrap your mind around such concepts is like a gym for your brain, and a booster for your sense of awe.

I've been trying to wrap my head around the universe for years. It's simply mind boggling. But I love it.

Imagine once we realize we need to mix science and spirituality together , how far we will advance in such a short period of time.......We'd get 500 years in 50 years compared to just using science...


They key is for both sides to drop egos and work together.

Great find! What a fascinating proposal. I'm very interested in where this research will lead. I'll try to pull up the paper in PRL.


Neutrino detectors--cool pics from Superkamiokande:

underground.cityofember.com...

Originally posted by shortest man walking
the first thing this made me think of is (i am way wrong here, just trying to explain what i am talking about since i cant think of its name) the effect of two plasma balls being made from one object, then one ball of plasma is spun. the neat part is the other ball of plasma regardless of how great the distance between the two, it will spin immediately, , even if say it were on the other side of the solar system, greatly surpassing the speed limit placed on light.


i cant help but think maybe these neutrinos are responsible.


if anyone knows the name of the experiment i am talking about, please let me know, its really buggin me

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, you probably mean experiments in quantum entanglement.

For a breakdown you can check out the Wiki article at or for more in-depth info: plato.stanford.edu...

Originally posted by ngchunter
I think that quantum mechanics would tell us that you can't control the collapse any more than you can force schrodinger's cat to be dead or alive.

Until you open the box.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
If these "stretched neutrinos" are single particles, could they provide an instantaneous information link across vast distances? Does one end of a stretched neutrino instantaneously know what happens at the other end -- even if both ends are millions or billions of light years apart?

You'd need to modulate it to carry information. Here's some food for thought:

The existence of a neutrino mass strongly suggests the existence of a tiny neutrino magnetic moment of the order of 10 − 19 Bohr magneton allowing the possibility that neutrinos may interact electromagnetically as well. Neutrino Properties

I can think of all kinds of objections to this line of inquiry, but it could make a great science-fiction communication device at least - somebody tell Ursula LeGuin the principle of the ansible has finally been discovered!

reply to post by Moodle


As has been already stated, Neutrinos have been detected for quite some time, it's just extremely difficult due to their inclination to pass straight through most matter. Only on the very rare occasion that a neutrino actually hits an atom dead on is it detected.

You might like to pass off recent scientific discoveries as "BS" just because you don't understand the science, but there have been great leaps for humanity on the back of this "BS".

reply to post by warrenb


Wow awesome stuff.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the dark energy theory.
Dark energy

I think it's mindblowing that the universe is expanding at an exponential rate.
Man....so much we don't know yet......

Neutrino Beam Communication

Started digging for information and came across this.

reply to post by warrenb


Im missing something somewhere, but what a googol sized anything?

if it's explained somehow but I missed it ( VERY LIKELY!!) I appy polly gise..

oO


[edit on 12/6/2009 by badw0lf]

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by Moodle
reply to post by warrenb

 

here come those crazy neutrinos again, you know, the ones we've never found. not a single solitary one.

Antineutrinos were first detected in 1956 near a nuclear reactor. Reines and Cowan used two targets containing a solution of cadmium chloride in water. Two scintillation detectors were placed next to the cadmium targets. Antineutrino with an energy above the threshold of 1.8 MeV caused charged current interactions with the protons in the water, producing positrons and neutrons. The resulting positron annihilations with electrons created photons with an energy of about 0.5 MeV. Pairs of photons in coincidence could be detected by the two scintillation detectors above and below the target. The neutrons were captured by cadmium nuclei resulting in gamma rays of about 8 MeV that were detected a few microseconds after the photons from a positron annihilation event.

This experiment was designed by Cowan and Reines to give a unique signature for antineutrinos, to prove the existence of these particles. It was not the experimental goal to measure the total antineutrino flux. The detected antineutrinos thus all carried an energy greater 1.8 MeV, which is the threshold for the reaction channel used (1.8 MeV is the energy needed to create a positron and a neutron from a proton). Only about 3% of the antineutrinos from a nuclear reactor carry enough energy for the reaction to occur.

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 12-6-2009 by ngchunter]

Just wanted to chirp in to give props to you for that post. I get a joy out of watching a close minded debunker immediately get slapped properly with those pesky fact things.