Why the death penalty must be abolished

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posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


A causal relationship can be percieved in things that do not in reality have a causal relationship.




posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


A causal relationship can be percieved in things that do not in reality have a causal relationship.


Can we at least agree that they should at least be put to death without torture?

I want to agree on something.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


LoL! I am not disagreeing with you on this topic to be disagreeable.
But yes, I do agree with you there. I don't think they should suffer. Well, perhaps those that do some of the things that I have heard done to children. But that is just my ape side coming out.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


LoL! I am not disagreeing with you on this topic to be disagreeable.
But yes, I do agree with you there. I don't think they should suffer. Well, perhaps those that do some of the things that I have heard done to children. But that is just my ape side coming out.





posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by Donnie Darko

But why must we think in "eye for an eye" terms at all?

That's what's holding us back.


An eye for an eye simply means the punishment must fit the crime. It's a short hand idea that punishments must be equal to the crime...no more, no less.

An eye for an eye...a life for a life. Pretty simple prescription, yet people are offended by just retribution. Seems awful barbaric to rip out someone's eye, yeah? Yet, we need more of it.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by Praetorian Guard

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

But why must we think in "eye for an eye" terms at all?

That's what's holding us back.


An eye for an eye simply means the punishment must fit the crime. It's a short hand idea that punishments must be equal to the crime...no more, no less.

An eye for an eye...a life for a life. Pretty simple prescription, yet people are offended by just retribution. Seems awful barbaric to rip out someone's eye, yeah? Yet, we need more of it.


Arguing it is hopeless.

F people.




posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 01:15 AM
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I've given up arguing. People are too stubborn about this issue.

Like I said, humans can't save themselves ....



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 01:48 AM
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reply to post by Demandred
 
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: You state and I quote "murder is murder ... whether its state sanctioned or 2 people" and personally I agree with you.... But your carte blanch statement may make others reading it feel that it is ok to go call our returning diggers [Australian and NZ soldiers] murderers and this although the fact of the matter it is not the lynch underpinning the argument. Murder exists in many forms and under many circumstances and I would posit that as such it is impossible to pigeonhole every occurrence with a generalized response. For example..."Murder is bad and all murderers are criminals and should be locked up or worse etc"...Now go apply that generalized response to your warring forces when they return and see just how far you get!


Therefor I would posit that it is not an argument over "murder" per say... but over the "VALIDITY" of what ever action [in this case a punishment] is to be taken.


Personal Disclosure: I have no problem with the death penalty as long as we can be absolutely sure of its validity in being applied on a case by case basis.
At the moment though even with all our fangled forensics etc the error margin on this validity is way out of kilter with what would be considered a reasonable error margin and until this is rectified I would find a currently enforced death penalty for what ever crime to be highly objectionable and abhorrent in the extreme.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


Sorry but when you rape babies, when you walk up next to a guy parked at a red light and shoot him in the head, when you bludgeon a 90yr old defenceless woman, etc etc etc YOU ARE NOT HUMAN AND DESERVE !NO! HUMAN RIGHTS. PERIOD. And here we are spending 60k a year in tax revenue to keep each one of these animals locked up. Get rid of them, save billions of dollars, re-invest in education schools and medicine..



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 02:01 AM
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reply to post by Alesanjin
 



Plus, if there is a life after death, to be partly responsible for murder yourself, would not look good on your record.

Life after death account? Ok no problem.

My *after death account* reads:

Gracie votes to KILL a man who sodomized a 8 month old child, to death. Man’s killed, children sleep safe at night.

You: Votes to keep pedophile who sodomized an 8 month old to death in prison. He escapes/gets out on good behavior, rapes and kills another child.

I like my book better.

Take them OUT and let God deal with them from there.

It’s our responsibility to protect children and our society.
To do any less = FAIL.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 02:20 AM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


Ah but you are the one being stubborn in our book friend.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 09:43 AM
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I am sorry I sincerely appreciate your views on the continued abolition of the death sentence, miscarriages have and continue to occur and to the civilised mind it is simply barbaric. However it is usually not civilised people who commit these crimes, more the callous and vicious, the death penalty is necessary first as an instrument of ‘pause’ essentially society reminding us of the consequences of our actions. It is also necessary for revenge and punishment, regardless of the victims and families wishes as without its use it purpose as a deterrent becomes superfluous.

I personally think we need it back, and we should extend it to include corporate manslaughter. Additionally in extreme capital cases I could argue for the head on pike scenario, but I admit that would be going too far.

If someone murdered someone I loved I would want payback, wouldn’t you?



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 09:53 AM
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If you haven't seen this series, you really should;







If you haven't time for the whole lot, watch this;



This is the same Portillo, who appears at the start of the 7/7 Ripple Effect.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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The main idea I've got is "children need the death penalty to exist to be safe" and "wouldn't you want to avenge your loved one".

Why doesn't life in maximum security prison without parole suffice for the very worst criminals? I want an explanation WHY. The idea that they can kill guards doesn't work because if done right they would be no more dangerous than an angry ape in a zoo. Sure it costs a lot of money, but isn't it money well spent to set such a high standard for life?

I have yet to hear a reason why we MUST have the death penalty.

[edit on 13-6-2009 by Donnie Darko]



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


You've heard plenty of reasons why we must have the death penalty, or is cold blooded murder not a good enough reason?
Like I mentioned before let the victims family decide, if they wish to rip that person apart, then so be it.
I personally have absolutely no sympathy for Pedo's and killers, they had a choice whether or not to go ahead with the crime, if we locked every one of them up for the rest of their lives we would have to build more prisons, where's the sense in that unless it's on the moon!



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 06:44 AM
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Our society has a foundation of rules to protect it’s people and it’s society as a whole.
When someone steps outside the rules of society, they forfeit the protection of the society they live in.
You try and kill society, society no longer protects you.
So play by the rules - or die.

As horrific as that is (just drips NWO if you apply it to other circumstances) I still believe, and strongly, this formula MUST apply to serial killers, murderers, rapists who kill, and fist and foremost pedophiles.

One thing people forget conveniently it seems, or are just ignorant of.

Pedophilia does not end when the criminal is caught.
The child's pain goes on, and the crime continues to harm throughout the child’s whole life.
No matter how much *help* the child receives, if any, the crime will never, ever *go away*.
It’s impossible to ever regain the innocence stolen.

Furthermore. A victim of pedophilia often, and more often than is reported, grows into an abuser/pedophile themselves.
When they perpetrate on a child the very same crimes perpetrated on them - their excuse is “It was done to me”.
So the initial pedophile - (arguably) - is the perpetrator of an infinity of crimes against generations of children.

Put an end to the outrage of pedophilia once and for all.

Make it a public killing, make it horrific and whatever you don’t make it *humane* - Burn them at the stake - IMO.

So possibly, just possibly if one person is crippled in fear before they harm a child - if a horrific execution acts as a deterrent, stops a child rapist in their tracks - it will save a whole generation of children suffering - and another generation and the next after that.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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Capitol punishment obviously breaks off any further gathering of information from a person who is already deceased. This could constitute 'destruction of evidence' and be a form of 'obstruction of justice.'

Karla Faye Tucker was put to death in Texas for a murder she committed when she was under the influence of many different drugs that had been supplied to her by 'friends.' How much insurance was on the persons who she was executed for killing? Who else was involved in setting her up? We will likely never know the truth because the state of Texas destroyed the evidence and prevented any further investigation by killing Karla Faye Tucker.

You may recall that George Bush did one of his clown comic routines about her when she asked him to "Please don't kill me."

Before John Wayne Gacy was executed he told his lawyer that "I hope the truth comes out someday." The local police department had received reports for over ten years of screams coming from his home at night? Curious that they never investigated and took no action. If Gacy were alive he may have been able to explain why he was mass murdering young men for so many years and the police failed act. The state of Illinois destroyed the evidence by executing him and now we may never know the truth.

Jeffrey Dahmer was slain while in prison to break off any further testimony that he could give. When he was finally arrested the Mayor told the police chief to clear off the computer files of any contact that the Milwaukee police had had with Dahmer. Jeffrey was an 'Intelligence agent' working undercover. The police had dropped many kids off at his apartment for him to eat. It was known in intelligence circles as "Operation meals on wheels." Of course it could be argued that if capitol punishment were allowed then the authorities wouldn't have had to contract murder him in the lock up. Even with that said, capitol punishment should be ended.

Law is not created to guarantee equal outcomes, rather it is designed to guarantee equal process. One concept of Justice is that no party may be denied to do what another party is allowed to do. An ordinary citizen is denied the right to kill after capture. So if you are attacked and you subdue your assailant, once the assailant is no longer able to continue the combat, your attack must cease. On the other hand, the state may kill a person who presents absolutely no threat and is under total control. The basis of allowing for 'unequal process,' between parties, the state versus the individual, is evidence that capitol punishment is 'intrinsically unjust.'

The state is a legal fabrication and a synthetic construction. If you consider your self a just person, would you ever allow the state to do an unjust act in your name? Capitol punishment is an unjust act Capitol punishment is murder, and if done to silence a witness, is at minimum, compounding of a felony. It is Treason against humanity.



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 09:04 AM
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When citizens commit crimes they are jailed for punishment and for the protection of society. Therefore, I do not see the point in societies executing those who no longer pose any danger. I think those who commit murder should be jailed indefinitely (separated from society), but I believe all criminals should be given the chance to become better people. Does that mean they should be given cable, or be allowed to pursue college degrees? No, but that's a separate issue. The bottom line is killing people for killing people is childish and it accomplishes nothing. Philosophically speaking, if you believe in God, then executing those who no longer pose any danger would serve no objective purpose other than mere revenge. After all, God – a perfect being with absolute authority – is going to judge them anyway, so for us to carry out our limited judgments is disrespectful, arrogant, and pointless to say the least. On the other hand, if you do not believe in God, then capital punishment is just the act of transforming criminal beings into a state of nothingness. How can that be considered a punishment when the only people who will realize and remember such events are the witnesses and the avengers? Indeed, the most logical solution is indefinite confinement. In that way, society would be safe from criminals, the criminals would be punished, and criminals would be given the chance to become better people.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by YSM85]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by Donnie Darko
I foresee the return of the death penalty to the UK, the EU, Australia, Canada and New Zealand in the early '10s as society breaks down and crime gets really bad.



Hi Donnie. Thanks for your worries for European Union.

Here in France, that abolished death penalty in 1981 even if a short majority of french population was still for at this periode, the number of people supporting death penalty has decreased over the last 20 years. From below 50% in the '80s, there is now around 61% people against death penalty in France.
Also, death penalty abolition has been written in the Constitution in 2002. It is now an anticonstitutional punishment here.



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by Donnie Darko
 


WHY DO PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE, THAT KILL PEOPLE, TO TEACH PEOPLE, THAT KILLING IS WRONG?
LIL BASS ACKWARDS IF YOU ASK ME!!!!





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