Why the death penalty must be abolished, page 2

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:33 AM by Demandred

an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, but we must protect those who are unwilling to kill to further their own agendas

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:35 AM by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by Demandred
crime and punishment can be tricky it all comes down to the circumstances, so its hard to apply a blanket punishment to a crime because every crim has special circumstances, but sickos, like Milat should be given life without release, unfortunatley the tax payer has to pay for their ... accommodation, but its gotta be better than having them prey on the rest of us.

Of course. The thing is, there are a lot worse things your tax money does than keep scum alive. Be angry about the wars it funds and the lining it puts in greedy people's pockets, not at what goes to not killing people.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:38 AM by Donnie Darko

I've heard of Ivan Milat the backpacker murderer though, and I've seen Wolf Creek ... and yes, he should never be let out, ever!

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:43 AM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

I say if a person shows him or herself to be a threat to others by crossing needlessly that line it is society's duty to put that person down. Why should a person be rewarded with assured room and board on someone else's dime when we do have people starving to death or dying from exposure who had wronged no one?

And I find it rather hypocritical those who do not bat an eye when an animal gets euthanized supposedly for our safety yet scream sanctity of life and how revenge is bad when that same concept is applied to humans.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:49 AM by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
I say if a person shows him or herself to be a threat to others by crossing needlessly that line it is society's duty to put that person down. Why should a person be rewarded with assured room and board on someone else's dime when we do have people starving to death or dying from exposure who had wronged no one?

And I find it rather hypocritical those who do not bat an eye when an animal gets euthanized supposedly for our safety yet scream sanctity of life and how revenge is bad when that same concept is applied to humans.

I hate how they put animals to sleep, I think they should save all of them.

As for "room and board", their life is still hell. And I do think we should help the homeless, but the death penalty is not the way to it.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:49 AM by KEMIK

I have struggled with the death penalty issue for many years. I am a law enforcement officer with almost 10 years under my belt. I have seen the recidivism. It is staggering. I have seen teens turn from petty criminals to murderers. I have seen murderers found "innocent" only to murder again (and again). I am not speculating, they actually were guilty. People talk, many people talk. I have seen individuals guilty of sex crimes serve 2 years (many have server much less), only to return with the same charge again, and again. I worked as Corrections Officer for 6 years. Some of these individuals have no respect for anyone. The exist for themselves, and only for themselves. You will never understand the level of ignorance they display unless you "walked a mile in my shoes". That said, it ruined me. I no longer see humanity as what it should be...people helping people. It see it as a vicious struggle between animals. It is sobering.

I do not believe that a human should take another humans life. It is not for us to decide. Yet at the same time I know of many that should not be alive due to the harm that they have caused to others, many, many times. I do not believe that these individuals should stand beside us on this earth, because they are pure evil.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:52 AM by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by KEMIK
I do not believe that these individuals should stand beside us on this earth, because they are pure evil.

But aren't we evil if we just massacre them all? I've heard sociopaths, which are the people you are describing, make up something like 2% of the population. This means we have to kill millions of people - that is our duty?!

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:53 AM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by Donnie Darko

Doesn't matter if their life is hell. I am not interested in revenge. I am interested in removing threats to the innocent and some lines once crossed there isn't any going back. They are taken care of better than those who have harmed no one, and why do they get this special treatment? Because they have proven themselves to be a danger to his fellows that needed to be segregated and that in and of itself is not right.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:54 AM by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Donnie Darko

Doesn't matter if their life is hell. I am not interested in revenge. I am interested in removing threats to the innocent and some lines once crossed there isn't any going back. They are taken care of better than those who have harmed no one, and why do they get this special treatment? Because they have proven themselves to be a danger to his fellows that needed to be segregated and that in and of itself is not right.

So you're saying killing them is the only way?

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:57 AM by KEMIK

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by KEMIK
I do not believe that these individuals should stand beside us on this earth, because they are pure evil.

But aren't we evil if we just massacre them all? I've heard sociopaths, which are the people you are describing, make up something like 2% of the population. This means we have to kill millions of people - that is our duty?!

I DID NOT say that we should kill them all. Read my entire post.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:57 AM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by Donnie Darko

In a imperfect world, yes. We do after all live in a imperfect world. It sucks of course I will agree with you on that one. But allowing one person that has shown the ability to cross that line a chance to irrevicably harm another innocent life or living on societies dime while others starve who have harmed no one is reconcilably wrong.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:59 AM by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by KEMIK

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by KEMIK
I do not believe that these individuals should stand beside us on this earth, because they are pure evil.

But aren't we evil if we just massacre them all? I've heard sociopaths, which are the people you are describing, make up something like 2% of the population. This means we have to kill millions of people - that is our duty?!

I DID NOT say that we should kill them all. Read my entire post.

You said, "I do not believe that these individuals should stand beside us on this earth, because they are pure evil."

Were you suggesting killing all them, or putting them away from society?

The point of this thread though, is that by having the death penalty, we reinforce the belief that violence is the answer.

As long as people believe this, there will not be peace.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:59 AM by kaleshwar

I really wouldn't want the death penalty to be brought back.

For one thing most people can be rehabilitated.

and for those that can't.... there are things worse than death.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:00 AM by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Donnie Darko

In a imperfect world, yes. We do after all live in a imperfect world. It sucks of course I will agree with you on that one. But allowing one person that has shown the ability to cross that line a chance to irrevicably harm another innocent life or living on societies dime while others starve who have harmed no one is reconcilably wrong.

Wouldn't it be better to equalize it by feeding the homeless than killing the murderers though?

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:03 AM by KEMIK

reply to post by Donnie Darko

Again, I do not believe that it is for us to decide who lives or who dies. All I mentioned (basically) is that these people have no place in society. They would kill you for your sneakers. I DID NOT suggest that they should be eradicated. I just believe that they should not be a part of a society that is trying to better themselves.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:05 AM by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by KEMIK
reply to post by Donnie Darko

Again, I do not believe that it is for us to decide who lives or who dies. All I mentioned (basically) is that these people have no place in society. They would kill you for your sneakers. I DID NOT suggest that they should be eradicated. I just believe that they should not be a part of a society that is trying to better themselves.

Ah okay. I misread you, I'm sorry. And I agree, some people should not walk among us.

But what I'm saying is most people make a point to hate them and make them suffer. But to me that's kinda like beating a vicious pitbull AFTER it's been put in quarantine. It's just pointless and mean, it's not honoring their victims.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by Donnie Darko]

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:08 AM by spellbound

reply to post by KEMIK

Star to you, Kemik, especially as a law enforcement officer and especially because of what you have seen and do see - and yet you say it is not up to us to take another life.

I really salute you.

I was always a believer in 'an eye for an eye' but as I grow older and (probably not) wiser, I believe that it is not up to us.

I believe that people who do hideous crimes are mentally ill, and should be kept away from others, in a humane environment. The trouble is that it all comes down to money, as does everything in this world.

The problem, as you say, is that young people sent to jail learn more evil and emerge to do worse acts.

I really don't know what should happen, only that the innocent should be protected.

But one thing I do know is that if anyone did anything harmful to those I love, I would be screaming out for the death penalty.

This is a very difficult issue.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:09 AM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by Donnie Darko

Um, that is not the whole of my argument and not the only reason I believe that those that show themselves to be a danger must be removed completely.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:13 AM by spellbound

reply to post by Donnie Darko

Flagged and starred.

Thank you for starting this thread. There are so many gray areas that it is overwhelming.

You have made me question my own principles.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:15 AM by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by Donnie Darko

Flagged and starred.

Thank you for starting this thread. There are so many gray areas that it is overwhelming.

You have made me question my own principles.

Thank you.

Another thing I have wondered is if I would support the DP if someone did something to a loved one of mine. I may or may not, but if I did, it would just be an emotional response, I would still deep down believe it was wrong for me to want revenge.

I do know some people have forgiven such things, and I think that's awesome, but I'd imagine it's the minority - most people would want the perp to pay probably.

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