Does man actually just enjoy killing?, page 6

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reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:56 AM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by dodadoom

Just hope we're not on the menu one day too!

Speaking as a unrepentent carnivore with a deep respect for animals who are carnivores I say, turn about is fair play.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:58 AM by dodadoom

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Oops I just agreed! Um I guess I need to clarify which part.
I dont agree it goes hand in hand but I agree
we enjoy eatin' at least as much as killin'.
I hope I dont need to go dig up statistics!
Thanks for helping me clarify my thoughts!

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 04:00 AM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by dodadoom

Eh, I don't like the generalization. *I happen to dislike all generalization on general principle.* I personally dislike killing, but necessity being what it is because nature is set up as it is.............

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 07:26 AM by kettlebellysmith

reply to post by dodadoom

My dad taught me to hunt when I was a kid, many years ago. I havn't hunted much in the last few years, but I'm going to start back. Understand though, I don't hunt for sport. One of the strongest lessons my father taught me about hunting is this: "Boy, if you ain't gonna eat it or wear it, don't kill it." I have followed that advice faithfully, with the exception of killing varments, such as heavy flocks of starlings and blackbirds when they start roosting in my trees. Large enough flocks leave huge amounts of unwanted deposits that carry nasty fungal diseases that rot your lungs.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 08:55 AM by Nammu

Hunting is different from killing. Eat what you hunt. That's what happens in nature. Killing for the sake of killing is wrong, regardless of the species. It's bloodlust, nothing more.

Watching these kids stomping pigeons makes me sick! No respect at all for life! Respect for life is taught in hunting. It is not taught in killing. How does a kid like that one in the video grow up knowing what respect is? Does it make you a man to stomp on a bird that can't even fly?

What happened to us? When did we decide that we were the lord and rulers of the universe? What caused us to be so full of ourselves that we lost our respect?

Man shoots and stomps on pigeons for fun. If a 6 foot pigeon came along he wouldn't stop on man for fun. I've got more respect for the pigeon. They're not so far up their own asses they can't see the ground any more.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 09:03 AM by Spiramirabilis

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Those "alternatives" are not for me. I am what I am. And I am unashamed of it. Carnivores are an intergal part of the food chain.

I understand this

you may be a carnivore - but that doesn't bring you very close to understanding the actual killing - you can distance yourself from that part because there's no reason you would ever have to kill to eat - I'm assuming

so - it's not about feeling shame - you (and all of us) are too far removed from the event to feel shame - there's no need

And what Billy Jo Bob Redneck and his little un's do, well, that does not reflect on me.

however, using the word redneck does reflect on you - and everyone

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 09:05 AM by downtown436

I used to get paid a nickel per pidgeon killed at my friends dairy. They would eat all the cattle feed if left alone. They would fly in a huge flock back and forth. One of us would be at one end of the dairy and one at the other. When the flock got to one end the shooter would kill as many as possible, and then the flock would get scared from the gunfire, turn around and go the other way, and the other guy would shoot.

I have to say I had a pretty good time doing it. Pidgeons are like rats in the sky. It wasn't a total waste though because the dairy workers would feed the dead pidgeons to their dogs.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 09:10 AM by Amagnon

Originally posted by dodadoom
reply to post by jd140

Hey JD.
At least your honest right?
Dont tell me you voted for bush and the war!
Thanks for the compassionate and most heartfelt reply.
Ever hear of walmart? they have meat you know...
Glad you are so proud of it.
Do you drink the blood of your victims with your son too?
Apparently the only difference in us and cavemen is the size of our sticks.

[edit on 11-6-2009 by dodadoom]

What kind of a panzy are you? We were hunters for millions of years - but now, "Oh no - that's so wrong and nasty .. oh boo hoo." So you say while your munching on your beef burger.

Go cry yourself a river. I hope you have killed at least a few of the animals whose meat you eat, though i doubt it - I wonder if you've even seen your own blood.

Your assertion that hunting and war are somehow related is a ludicrous generalization at best - we hunt and kill animals to sustain human life, not to destroy it.

Hunting is a thrill - to chase, or stalk - enlivens our blood - as we remember and pay homage to the instincts that made us the most feared carnivore of this world.

Having said that - the guys in the photo's are not hunting - it's like they are masturbating instead of having sex. They would be better to shoot dots in a video game - the way they are treating the kills shows they are probably not even going to eat them - that is total disrespect. When you kill an animal - and you see it turn from a beautiful living thing, into something silent and still - then you have respect for the natural order, and respect for the animals whose lives we take to live.

So you say - "Oh we are civilized now, we don't need to be like that anymore." Speak for yourself, have we become so soft and weak?

Those who eat meat and talk about the evil of hunting are hypocrites. It is better to hunt, then raise an animal - treat it with kindness and feed it - then take it's life.

Your idea that we are somehow better than cavemen, or that we are NOT cavemen is insanity - if we forget what we are, then we deserve to perish.

We are pure instinct, augmented by imagination and tempered by reason. To live by instinct alone is to become a beast, but to live by reason alone is to become a robot. To live by imagination alone requires religion.

The instincts in us are what preserved our species and made them masters of the world - to deny them is to deny the power of life in our own veins. It is our instincts that tell us right from wrong, it is our instincts that drive us to defend ourselves and our own - it is that righteous indignation inside us that makes us noble in the face of adversity.

We are primal - we are fearsome - we are men .. if we are not, then we are nothing.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by Amagnon]

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 09:22 AM by MilitieTempliSalmo

I dont hunt or shoot at anything, if I ever hunt for sport will be with a bow and arrow cause I think a gun is way too "overpowered" against an animal, no matter the animal.. BUT I do understand the people who like to do it for sport. After all its not a concept unknown to us since we've been doing that for millennia now... this pigeon thing makes me sick. Whats the kick they get out of this... wheres the challenge? This is just disregard and complete disrespect for life no matter whats its form.

Now humans its a different thing. Seeing those idiots laugh and enjoy what they're doing to the poor pigeons actually makes me want to release them in a field, get a longbow, a few arrows and manhunt them... just for kicks or maybe get a group of friends and put up a bet with them listening to the "rules" and then release them knowing their inevitable fate.

These people have lost their right to live. Poor natural abortions, and pregnancy complications than lead to them... maybe life would be better given to those who never born because of natural complications, maybe they were better persons that these retards that nature allowed to live so they can spend their useless and worthless lives doing this kind of crap to innocent animals.

I say manhunt them. For fun or for a prize. Just kidnap them in jerksville and release them in some forest and let me have some fun with them.

EDIT:

Amagnon

Hes no pansy. If your a hunter so brave and crap, go hunt a wild hog with your bare hands. Just you and your human muscular power, no guns, nothing that puts you in advantage to the beast your hunting. You, your hands... against a wild hog. Then we'll see whos the pansy, you brave man. Its nice to be brave from the aim of a 338 round nose.

** WARNING ** Seriously dont do it. Unless you have a death wish.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by MilitieTempliSalmo]

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 09:38 AM by Nammu

Originally posted by downtown436
I used to get paid a nickel per pidgeon killed at my friends dairy. They would eat all the cattle feed if left alone. They would fly in a huge flock back and forth. One of us would be at one end of the dairy and one at the other. When the flock got to one end the shooter would kill as many as possible, and then the flock would get scared from the gunfire, turn around and go the other way, and the other guy would shoot.

I have to say I had a pretty good time doing it. Pidgeons are like rats in the sky. It wasn't a total waste though because the dairy workers would feed the dead pidgeons to their dogs.

So why not just fire off a shot and scare them? You shooting as many as you can each time they land didn't fix the problem. The population is controlled by the amount of food available. And that's food we either don't protect properly or throw away. Perhaps if we were cleaner ourselves they wouldn't be so much of a problem.

I hate that old 'pigeons are sky rats' excuse. By 'rats' i take it you mean they're unclean and diseased? But then you'll feed it to the family dog?

They carry the same diseases as cats, dogs and humans. How many people do you know ever caught a disease off a pigeon? Now liken that to how many people you know caught something off another person.

Lets face it, people just hate and want to kill any other species that's successful. Because we think we're better than it.

Well some day maybe some being will come down that thinks it's higher than us. Then maybe they'll start people shooting for fun. We won't be able to complain cause that's how we treat everything else.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 10:33 AM by Spiramirabilis

reply to post by Nammu

nice :-)

I hate that old 'pigeons are sky rats' excuse. By 'rats' i take it you mean they're unclean and diseased?

I hate it too

they're doves - rock doves

if there weren't so many of them people might realize they're very beautiful

people come to loathe what ever is common - I think that's why many people hate people

I had to get rid of my bird feeder here - not because of the finches - but because the seed attracted pigeons

you know why they didn't want the pigeons around? Bird Flu

fear and ignorance cause a lot of unnecessary issues for people

meanwhile - I'm a vegetarian now - but not a preachy one - I have my reasons, and they are mine

but on the subject of killing...

it's not honorable to kill for no good reason - bottom line

killing things when they are a nuisance - but not an actual problem - is not a good reason

and finally - if it ever comes down to it - I'd eat the pigeons way before I'd eat the rats

edit to add: pigeons are vegetarian - grain and seed

that's why you don't see them hanging around dumpsters or sitting on dead squirrels - they're pretty clean

[edit on 6/12/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:15 PM by Gazrok

Does man actually just enjoy killing?

By nature's design, we're omnivores, which means the behavior of killing is encoded into our DNA.

Now, I'd like to think that our developed humanity and societal tendencies would override this compulsion when deemed prudent, but I also feel it's important to have a harmless outlet for this ingrained propensity for violence (for example sports, video games, etc.)

Paintball and video games are my outlets, when I have the time to do so....but I've also hunted as a child (in Alaska (was there as a child for a little bit), you simply hunted and/or fished, mostly because if you wanted meat, that's what you did, hehe..)

killing things when they are a nuisance - but not an actual problem - is not a good reason

I have no moral qualms about killing bugs, but then, they do have certain attached problems....

[edit on 12-6-2009 by Gazrok]

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 02:57 PM by purehughness

reply to post by Gazrok

Haha, I was just going to point that out -after reading through the thread- that we're actually omnivores.
Not Carnivores. Imagine if you tried to live only eating flesh, you'd get real sick, real quickly.

But as to whether people really enjoy killing, I think there may be some people out there who genuinely enjoy destroying a life without any feeling or respect or reason. And these people are very wrong in the head. If you derive any sort of enjoyment out of destroying something, there could be something wrong.

But I can understand a hunter though. A hunter would feel a sort of empathy with his quarry, the respect of a creature of the Earth, and the use he may put it to once the deed is done.

Personally, I've sworn off of ever taking a life intentionally. I don't think it's something I could or would want to do. Though if it were life or death necessary, then thing might be different. And yes, I am a vegetarian, I know that it is easily possible to live a healthy lifestyle without meat, but I won't force it on anyone.

Peace all.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:06 PM by xman_in_blackx

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

it's not honorable to kill for no good reason - bottom line

killing things when they are a nuisance - but not an actual problem - is not a good reason

That struck a chord with me. That is how I see it as well. It seems to me that the majority of the people I know who are good at killing only kill when they have to and have a deep respect for life.

I also know a lot of people who hunt and they eat what they kill and try their best to use as much of the carcass as they can. Some even go the native american route of preying to the animals soul afterward thanking him for his life so that the hunters life will continue.

I don't know of anyone who has killed who did it out of enjoyment. In fact, one of the most prolific killers I know ( a Marine sniper who worked Laos and Cambodia ) has a lot of sleepless nights and plenty of remorse over those he has killed. I don't buy that the human race in general enjoys killing. Humans kill out of serious necessity only.

I feel as though those who suggest humans kill out of joy, are furthering an agenda of depopulation. One can only allow depopulation if humans are a scourge or virus. One must demonize humans for that to happen. How does one do it? "Humans enjoy killing" in a broad statement.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:24 PM by SonyAD

I enjoy killing time. Does that count?
Oh, and killing pixels and bytes in computer games.

I also enjoy a lot driving. But that's hardly what the OP, meant. Unless (s)he's a diehard treehugger.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:24 PM by Viral

I find it interesting that you can take your stance now, but I wonder if you would adhere to it if you were living in a time before supermarkets? Everyone is so used to having everything handed to them since they no longer have to produce anything themselves in the way of shelter or food. Back in the day, your survival depended on how well you could hunt and how much work you put into your farm. Man is the steward of the earth, for better or worse, and so he has the right to raise animals and eat them. Of course, that does not mean he should ruin the environment or torture animals, but he does have a say in what happens to this planet.

In a way, I think it is a humbling experience to hunt your own food, rather than to walk through a brightly-lit, freezing aisle full of prepackaged food that was most likely procured in an inhumane fashion.

And to answer your title, which is slightly misleading, I would say: sometimes, but not often. I hold that most of the human population is more good than bad, and usually does evil out of ignorance. There are only a handful of psychopaths that actually enjoy or are not affected by killing another person. Unfortunately, most of those people are at the top of the totem pole, dragging us into their megalomaniacal wars.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 03:46 PM by grapesofraft

reply to post by jd140

Personally I do not understand it. I do not understand a politician sending people to war but then tying their hands behind their backs with a bunch of limitations.

I do not disagree with the war in Iraq, but I do fault Bush for trying to make the Iraqi's a group of people we were meant to free. That is the same kind of stupid politics they did in Vietnam.

A politicians job is to define the enemy and to define victory in a way that leads to victory. George Bush senior and the military leaders did a decent job of this in the first Gulf War.

I just think we get our own men and women killed needlessly by getting caught up in this game of trying to make war nice and family friendly.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 04:14 PM by purehughness

reply to post by Viral

Agreed on the pre-supermarkets point there!

That's why, whenever we can, we grow what we need, or trade produce with other local producers. It just feels more right and everyone wins really!
It's really quite strange that so many people don't know where food comes from, but then I and others have had a fairly unorthadox upbringing...

But I'm not entirely sure about humans being the stewards of the Earth though. I mean, look at all the damage that has been done by man, mostly in the last 200 years. I do't know if you're referring to Genesis where man has dominion over all of the creatues, but I just can't bring myself to agree there, Sorry...

Maybe when there were a lot less of us than now, say going back to prehistory, when it really was a fair balance, and man was just as likely to be killed as food by an animal than the other way round, but these days it's completely lost, and it looks like ultimately we're paying the price.

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 04:27 PM by jd140

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by jd140

Personally I do not understand it. I do not understand a politician sending people to war but then tying their hands behind their backs with a bunch of limitations.

I do not disagree with the war in Iraq, but I do fault Bush for trying to make the Iraqi's a group of people we were meant to free. That is the same kind of stupid politics they did in Vietnam.

A politicians job is to define the enemy and to define victory in a way that leads to victory. George Bush senior and the military leaders did a decent job of this in the first Gulf War.

I just think we get our own men and women killed needlessly by getting caught up in this game of trying to make war nice and family friendly.

We weren't sent there to free the Iraqis initially. That part came after the fact that we found out Saddam had let us believe he had them and it turned out he was bluffing. I remember being at JRTC when the news came that Saddam had pretty much kicked the inspectors out of Iraq. We all knew at that time that we would be going to war.

Having been over there a couple of times it is in mine and alot of others opinions (including the Iraqis that I have met) that they needed Saddam taken out.

It may not be the why we were told we were going to war, but by it happening they are in a better place. You may not see it from what is shown on the news, but when does peace sell?

"Peace sells, but whos buying?"- Megadeth

reply posted on 12-6-2009 @ 04:32 PM by andy1033

Of course people enjoy killing, and if you do not want to kill someone do not join the police as they are just a bunch of serial killers, just eager everyday to go on the prowl looking for anyone especially innocent to destroy and kill if they can.

Just go to any school and see how the weak are treated and you will see what this world is teaching for tomorrow, destroy anyone you can and the police will be there after yu leave school to kill anyone your heart desires.

So killing is a past time of so many fruitcakes in society as they get teh jobs usually in high places.