What? Nazism is left-wing?

I'm sorely confused because, as I've always known it, and as it has always been explained, Nazism is supposed to be an extremism of the right-wing political spectrum.

Now, with the Von Brunn guy shooting the poor security guard and being a white supremacist, right-wingers have come out in full force shoving it in our faces that Nazism is a left-wing extremism.

Did I miss the memo as to when this came about? I always thought it was like this:

Fascism (Nazism) = Extreme Right
Communism = Extreme Left

Is this just a way for the right-wing to make it seem like all the political extremes belong to the left wing? That anything on the right end of the spectrum has nothing that can be correlated to it regarding history's atrocious regimes?

I even read one thread (when trying to see if anyone had posted this topic as of late) that suggested the Nazi's were COMMUNISTS!

I was driving home from work and listening to the AM and a caller reamed the radio host (can't remember who at the moment) for suggesting that Nazism was a right-wing idea.

Glenn Beck is now suggesting the same thing: Glenn Beck Spins the Holocaust Museum Shooting. His reasoning? Right wingers don't judge people by their race, only on individual merits and are devoid of racism. It's the left who are racist because they are for racial equality which therefore automatically makes someone a racist by even recognizing that there are different races (fighting for equality = your a racist). Therefore, Nazism/white supremacy (being as racist as it is) is a left wing agenda.

I lay out in this thread I stared the difference between Fascism and Socialism and how, while people are making the same mistake by calling Obama a Socialist, he's actually moving toward fascism.

Hitler denounced communism. Communism tries to spread the wealth and make all races, classes, and sexes equal. Fascism is of the notion that only the wealthy and powerful shall rule and that the weaklings need to be weeded out.

This is a great article that will explain further: Myth: Hitler was a lefist

Summary

Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic. Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist.

Hitler was a fascist. The left today is fascist. The left today are re creating 1933 all over again. The only thing is, is are we going to allow it this time, and if so, who will rescue us and the world. It will eventually be an Islamic fascism that takes hold of the world. We can see it rising today. America has it's first Islamic ruler and look at how fast he is destroying the nation from within.

The lefties are playing with fire because the Islamists do not like Homosexuals, freedom of thought, and any other religion but their own. There will be no laughter or dancing, nor alcohol. No cinama, parties, or anything free. Only prayer on Friday and desolate poverty. Welcome to Obama's world, and the world of the decieved left fascists who will have their dream stolen right out from under them.

Keep watching... you'll see..

its not exactly like that. on the political spectrum there are four extremes. usually placed on the Y-axis are anarchism at the bottom (representing libertarian ideologies) and fascism at the top (representing authoritarian ideologies). On the other axis lies the extremes of communism (as the right wing side of the spectrum) and neo-liberalism (you can guess this is left wing). fascism is always represented as the most extreme right wing authoritarian form of European government. so, its at the communist/authoritarian corner (-/+) of the spectrum. This is completely off base with the claims these people are making, and obviously they need a simple lesson in first year political studies. I suppose the gunman's actions may be attributable to anarchism, the most left/liberal extreme. but beyond that lies social democracy wherein there is absolutely no connection to this incident.

theres my 2 cents, sorry about the spelling

in response to the previouse post, the fact that the left are replecating the right of 1933 doesnt mean the left has become the right, it simply means the left is disguised as the right. GAD DARN CONSPIRATORS!

[edit on 11-6-2009 by Kevin_X1]

Well any totalitarian system of government is left wing, Fascism, Socialism, Communism, etc.

The way it really is - is to the right is freedom, anarchy so to speak, to the left is an oligarchy. There was a video posted on ATS a while ago that explained it all.

When you get down to it people on the left are against the Jews for the most part, not all of them, but it is usually an extreme left position. People want Israel to give up Jerusalem to the Arabs, and want the Palestinians to have their own state.

So it really isn't that far of a stretch to come to that conclusion. The real issue is that we have been lied too all of our lives, they teach us that there is always some form of totalitarian form of government at either end, so they make us believe that we always have to have a system of government.

The Truth is to the right is freedom and to the left is authoritarian.

Nazi-ism isnt really right or left. Communism is left. fascism is right. Nazi-ism is a mix of both, honestly, and cannot be grouped into one or the other.

Truthfully this whole right vs. left thing is a smoke screen. But we are obviously unable to get passed that.

Ok, time for the extremes of left/right wing politics: Nazis = Right wing. Stalinists = left wing.

Don't pay attention to the ATS troglodytes who scream "LIBRULZ R NAAZIIS!!!11!one" because they're simply projecting.

Kevin_X1's description of a political compass is pretty good, too.

reply to post by Fromabove


Wow, this is something new to me. Fascism = Left-wing.

So socialism, fascism, communism are all left wing? There no extremism on the right?

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Nazi-ism isnt really right or left. Communism is left. fascism is right. Nazi-ism is a mix of both, honestly, and cannot be grouped into one or the other.

Truthfully this whole right vs. left thing is a smoke screen. But we are obviously unable to get passed that.

Please understand that I'm not turning this into a right vs. left thing. I am simply pointing out the strangeness of this idea that Nazism is left. I would do the same if lefties suggested that communism is on the right.

I do think you made a good point about Nazism being a mix of both. Some people do say that Nazism was an extreme variation on fascism. I would assume it would be because it was a mix of both.

Originally posted by Romantic Rights...because they're simply projecting.

I think someone may have hit the nail on the head here. (And the 300,000 employed Psychologists in the United States would probably concur!)

And how does that old saying go? "He who smelt it, dealt it!" I'm beginning to think the ones so quick to point fingers and call out extremes are the extremists themselves.

(But thankfully, that's what Filters and Ignore Lists are for!)

You can't put these people on a single dimension. It has to at least be a two-dimensional graph like the one Kevin_X1 described.

What you could put on a single dimension graph would be More government vs. less government. Just about everyone of these asshats from Republicans to Democrat to Nazis to Communists is weighted heavily on the side of more government while anarchists and libertarians are on the other. This is what people are referring to when they say it's not about (D) vs. (R) it's about liberty vs. tyranny.

The left/right crap.....well....what can I say but simple lines for simple minds.

reply to post by nunya13


There is this site where you answer some questions and it tells you where you stand on political issues and it also shows you where other leaders were at.

It went a little more in depth about how its economic philosophy and political philosophy goes into all and it's actually a grid.

I'll try to find the site and edit my post. Because that site put Hitler aka Nazi's just right of center but way up at the top. You have to see it to understand it.

I'll try to find it.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


www.politicalcompass.org...

Its called projection. The hard right will do everything it can to distance itself from the reprocusions of their hate rhetoric so they twist the truth to turn it around and blame it on the left.

Nazism/Fascism were to the extreme capitalist right

The Leninist/Stalinist state was to the extreme right of communism... indeed it could be called its antithesis.

True socialism is an entirely different beast.

Indeed whatever they call themselves totalarianism is always to the right.

[edit on 11-6-2009 by grover]

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


I think the problem with your assertion lies in the mistake in thinking that spectrum only goes from left to right. It doesn't.

It doesn't it also goes up and down. You can have authoritarian right and left. Just as you can have libertarian right and libertarian left

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d728e907f97b.png[/atsimg]

When you take this into consideration, you can see how it all begins to make sense:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/989429274217.gif[/atsimg]

edit to add: I did this while others were posting.




[edit on 11-6-2009 by nunya13]

Originally posted by nunya13

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Nazi-ism isnt really right or left. Communism is left. fascism is right. Nazi-ism is a mix of both, honestly, and cannot be grouped into one or the other.

Truthfully this whole right vs. left thing is a smoke screen. But we are obviously unable to get passed that.

Please understand that I'm not turning this into a right vs. left thing. I am simply pointing out the strangeness of this idea that Nazism is left. I would do the same if lefties suggested that communism is on the right.

I do think you made a good point about Nazism being a mix of both. Some people do say that Nazism was an extreme variation on fascism. I would assume it would be because it was a mix of both.

I absolutely get what you are saying, and on that note, please understand that my previous post was about people in general, not you.

Again, the only thing out of this that can be said as true: Communism is left-wing. Fascism is right wing.

Same beast, different ends of the spectrum.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Thanks, I just found it too.

I feel that is the most accurate explanation of the political spectrum and puts things into perspective.

I don't know if you feel the same, but it is more than left or right. That site opened my mind up and things are not just "Right or Left".

reply to post by nunya13


Nope, you found it.

That is what I was trying to get at. It is a lot more complex than left or right it is up or down also as your graph has posted.

Now if you just take the up and down of that and turn it 90 degrees to the right, then you can see where I was going in my first post.

For simplicity sake, complete freedom is on the right and authoritarianism is on the left.

As you can see Hitler wasn't hard right he was hard left as was Stalin, Bush, etc.

But the truth of the matter is that its also up and down, once again as the chart shows.

What does Fascism,Nazism and Communism all have in commom?socialism.So yes it is all left leaning,Dems want big goverment.

reply to post by debz325


Wow.

You're not paying attention.

The FEDS have expanded under EVERY administration.

Stop playing the left right politics and realize we are all being PUNK'ed!!!!

Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Nazi-ism isnt really right or left. Communism is left. fascism is right. Nazi-ism is a mix of both, honestly, and cannot be grouped into one or the other.

Not really true, Nazism was modeled after the fascism of Mussolini. The only real difference was Hitlers issue with Jews, which Mussolini adopted, to a point, in Italy due to pressure from Hitler.

There are a lot of people who misinterpret the term 'National Socialism' (Nazism) as being Socialist/left wing because of the use of the term 'Socialism' in it's title. This is misleading and governments are not always what they claim to be, Russia, nor China are communist for example. Hitler wasn't stupid, he needed the support of the population, who at the time were mostly socialist, so the term 'National Socialist' was created to appease the population and fool them into believing the party was pro 'working class'. 'National Fascist Party' probably wouldn't have worked for them.

You also have to understand the history of Europe in the 1930's, which was clambering for political identity and control. Look at the Spanish Revolution, it's where the war between left and right really peaked, unfortunately the right with it's power and financial influence won, and the right has pretty much been in control since.

Fascism and nationalism go hand in hand, the control of all production, even if it's privately owned, by government is fascism. The corporations use the government to help them maintain monopolies, and the government use the corporations (and military) to control the population and create wealth for the elite. Capitalism in the extreme. The state (the means that allows one group to control another) becomes more important than the people.

[edit on 11-6-2009 by Wally Hope]