EU security proposals are 'dangerously authoritarian'

Originally posted by infinite
The European Union, a once proud organisation that I admired, is slowly becoming a benevolent dictatorship that does indeed emulate a Napoleonic imperial structure across Europe.

I would suggest that it is not particularly benevolent. The European Union has encouraged, by positive and negative action, the worst kind of social policies acting against natural cultural diversity and stability.

Human society cannot cope with the rate of change it is faced by. In the course of history, such change has normally been preceded by invasion but we have installed the puppet governance associated with collaboration with an entirely abstract enemy - an invisible enemy.

Whether this is an orchestrated policy or the collective works of ignorant minds is debatable - I believe in the latter but our fears are realised in the former.

Live the moment because this time may well be regarded as the peak of European society in centuries to come. Nobody will be able to pinpoint the start of the decline just as they cannot define the moment when the Roman Empire started it's collapse. Enjoy the moment for we are here at the end.

reply to post by Dermo



Who keep your panties on people!...
Where are they talking about RFID chips? i tell you, i discussed that with friends and also family and really no one i know would ever shoot something like that into his or her arm, never going to happen or the dutch admin are standing on people's scaffolds again..trust me..
And exit/entry border surveillance, i think most people here wants some sharper border control, specially along the EU's coast borders, they dont come all the way to Ireland maybe but they do come to Holland and Germany en mass..And about the biometric systems, we introduced that eyescan in Schiphol airport, people choose for them selves to use that, getting you faster through pasport control...but really people aint going to choose for RFID chips..unless they're mental..
I actually voted for the ALDE Liberal alliance, not only do they embrace a unified European study program so every citizen can study where he/she wants, but also for a knowledge economy, and yes for a unified army..I think that is one of the best things to unite the EU political, i mean why should Ireland have this all autonomous army?[which you can still have]..We should learn from the lessons in Bosnia and Kosovo, deal with those things in our own backyard, join forces so we stay stronger..
Dont be so paranoid, since 1945 this continent has experience the renaissance of wealth, prosperity and...peace[since when did we have for over 50 years of non-stop peace in Europe?] , we only have one institution to thank and that is the EU..[and NATO]



[edit on 12-6-2009 by Foppezao]

[edit on 12-6-2009 by Foppezao]

reply to post by RogerT

Never had to,as i am a citizen,wich stopped traveling years ago..Sorry to incoveinence tourists,but hey we dont live in the 50's anymore..

I geuss I should live in horrible fear of the police barracks less than an 1/8th mile from my house..They might just decide to taze me when i get my mail..

Stop watching movies will ya..

Originally posted by SugarCube

Originally posted by infinite
The European Union, a once proud organisation that I admired, is slowly becoming a benevolent dictatorship that does indeed emulate a Napoleonic imperial structure across Europe.

I would suggest that it is not particularly benevolent. The European Union has encouraged, by positive and negative action, the worst kind of social policies acting against natural cultural diversity and stability.

Human society cannot cope with the rate of change it is faced by. In the course of history, such change has normally been preceded by invasion but we have installed the puppet governance associated with collaboration with an entirely abstract enemy - an invisible enemy.

Whether this is an orchestrated policy or the collective works of ignorant minds is debatable - I believe in the latter but our fears are realised in the former.

Live the moment because this time may well be regarded as the peak of European society in centuries to come. Nobody will be able to pinpoint the start of the decline just as they cannot define the moment when the Roman Empire started it's collapse. Enjoy the moment for we are here at the end.

Whaha, sorry maybe I need to lay off this conspiracy site for a while but as fas as i know, police is getting harassed by school kids here in holland[not the opposite]. We go out drink heineken, smoke the best weed in the world, pop an xtc pill and we can ask the police to light up our joints..i am going out its a wonderfull day...

[edit on 12-6-2009 by Foppezao]

Originally posted by Foppezao
reply to post by Dermo
Dont be so paranoid, since 1945 this continent has experience the renaissance of wealth, prosperity and...peace[since when did we have for over 50 years of non-stop peace in Europe?] , we only have one institution to thank and that is the EU..[and NATO]

Well strictly speaking, the EU was established by the Treaty of Maastricht in 1993; it's predecessor, The European Economic Community, was established around 1957 making it the predominant politically cohesive factor since 1945. NATO was created sometime in 1949.

This isn't so much about paranoia though - If Germany had have won the war (e.g. Britain lost control of the skies in 1941, Russia invaded via a successful campaign) then there would have been "peace" for even larger parts of the world since the US would almost certainly have not intervened and Germany would have interceded in the Japanese Pacific claims. A negotiated peace would have followed with a consolidated Greater Reich of "Europe" living under the Swastika alongside the USA which at the time had its own race issues.

People are naturally fearful that in spite of the outcome of WWII, we now have a Europe that is allied at the level of nations but with the greatest level of despondency by its combined population. We have seemingly unaccountable corporations who are capable of ignoring human rights in the the amoral pursuit of wealth above social benefit. Corporations don't make money in order to help society, that affect is purely incidental.

We are not paranoid in the UK when we see rights that have been won over nearly a thousand years effectively dismissed in the course of a generation.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by SugarCube]

Nice thread and indeed worrying, for those that don't know about the E.U it might be a good idea to incorporate the way the E.U works either in this thread or start a new one.

For example how the elected mep's have to do what they are told by the unelected elite group also you may want to add the connection to the illuminati and indeed US government. I would do it myself but I wouldn't get the message across like you do.

Keep up the good work.

Originally posted by Foppezao
Whaha, sorry maybe I need to lay off this conspiracy site for a while but as fas as i know, police is getting harassed by school kids here in holland[not the opposite]. We go out drink heineken, smoke the best weed in the world, pop an xtc pill and we can ask the police to light up our joints..i am going out its a wonderfull day...

Enjoy it while you can Foppezao. The NWO will be one of containment rather than confrontation. There are clear political benefits in converting the large majority of the population into an underclass that is allowed its beer and weed in abundance. It is useful to allow the population to think it is free to do what it wants - as long as it is contained and does not effect the status quo of the ruling class.

In myth, the story regaled by Marco Polo of the "Old Man of The Mountain" shows how this process worked on a small scale but the methodology works for any population.

Society is slowly being converted to a "pig-pellet" population where we metaphorically get fed by the nudge of our noses and can sh*t and p*ss all over our sty to our hearts content. However, the farmer sits warm and cosey on the outside and dreams of the day he sends his pigs to market for slaughter. We are consumers... consumers being fattened up and dumbed down.

reply to post by SugarCube


It actually began in '51 with the European Coal and Steel Community, Maastricht mostly united the three pillars..just like Lisbon is going to unite the previous treaties...


But i really don't see yet how our classical rights, rights to protect us from government such as freedom of speech, freedom to meet etc. will cease to exist in the upcoming years or decades in the union? Most European countries such a France, Belgium and also holland have the mentality to protest and hit the streets, dont forget what happened in 1968 Paris with the student protests, it also happened in Amsterdam..And i really dont think police will shoot on sight if people are going to protes..
I think the commission keeps big corporations well contained, not in the least party by my own commissioner Kroes..The Parliament is gaining more power since Maastricht, and i dont believe these technology developments will grow opposite of democratic movements in Europe, that is why the press can still write about these things...

reply to post by Rob37n


Your best bet for the children would be to get to the children before they do. These elites are not stupid as even Jesus confirms this - He says to be as wise as them, but here is the Difference, and that is to be as gentle as doves....

reply to post by Foppezao


TBH, many other posters took this a lot further than I would have comprehended or viewed it..

I have said before that I am pro EU as long as it drops the totalitarian attitude that is emanating from the top politicians. I believe that the EU is the way forward for the European region BUT I still don't like the idea of tracking citizens as we move about.. Once that appears.. where does it end?

Thats where my problem with it lies.

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by Redpillblues

Originally posted by Dermo

Why is it that Americans constantly refer to the Constitution of the US as something special when most western countries have pretty similar constitutions that grant pretty much the same rights to their citizens?
My own country has a similar constitution except with cultural differences but we never refer to or think about ours.. its just a given that people in the free world have these rights... and this kind of constitution was around before the creation of the US.

You obviously went through a bit of effort to find that quote lol but I dont know what exactly you are getting at..?

It looks like we are going to be all in the same boat pretty soon for surveillance and loss of privacy... whether or not we always talk about our 'freedoms'.


[edit on 11/6/09 by Dermo]

The quote says you never even 'think' about your constitution, and only 'talk' about your freedoms. That's how you, and we, got to where we are today.

You see, the maintenance of freedom requires more than discussion sometimes. It gets to points where it requires ACTION. Massive ACTION. It sounds like the EU, as well as the US, and most likely several other areas, are nearly to that point.

The future of the world, as applied to our own individual spheres of influence, is in our hands at this juncture. To deny that simple fact, is to lose all. We will beat ourselves with that sort of thinking, no effort required by TPTB.

So what shall we do now? Continue to bicker over the false left/right paradigm that's been handed to us to haggle over, or come together as one, and make our will known?

The 'future of the world' includes our children, our grandchildren, ad infinitum. Generations uncounted, and as yet even unthought of. OUR future is also THEIR future. A hundred years from now, will this generation be praised for it's action in wresting back control of our own destinies? Or will we be cursed for fools and cowards, who never got beyond the petty bickering to reach the common good?

Freedom is never free. There is ALWAYS a price required, either vigilance, action, blood or money. Sometimes it's all of the above.

nenothtu out

Originally posted by zorkthegreat
You already have your ID, it is called your passport, your drivers license, your medical card blah blah.

Well Zork, here in the US, I have none of the above any longer, and still manage to get along fairly well.

reply to post by Foppezao


In between the pedantry for treaty dates I have posted, I agree with the implicit premise of your argument Foppezao. The key factor in the stability of Europe has been commerce and finance - not political per se. For a long time the EEC jogged along nicely, not necessarily efficiently managed or fair to all parties but with a wide range of political agendas represented, from Italy to the UK, Germany to France (notwithstanding the differing accession dates).

In spite of the predominantly economic background of the EEC (and other treaties), albeit with attendant peripheral politics, the EU has become a notably political arena which is detrimental to the identity and stability of all member states.

EU membership that results in widescale economic migration is clearly not in the interests of the community as a whole and perhaps indicates that membership should not have been granted in the first place. The "everybody welcome" attitude is a complete nonsense. The European Council and the European Commission are ridiculous notions as they have not introduced normalisation in even the most important area of free trade, there being procedural anomalies that undermine the notion of a free workforce (The Netherlands being a notable sticking point in this area) - a fundamental driving force for the EEC.

Economic reform is still required in Europe and yet we are concentrating on a political agenda which in many cases is caused by US foreign policy - a divisive agenda since the capture of Berlin during WWII. Politically, militarily and economically it made no sense to allow the Russians to take "East" Berlin - look how that turned out and it could have been avoided!

Europe is at its strongest when we have member nations with a clear cultural identity but with strong economic ties to our neighbours - not the wet blanket of diluted borders that we have now. Does this sound elitist? Yes - because it is - and we in Europe have a right to feel elitist!