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You All Want Freedom Of Speech? Then Defend It!

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posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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I don't think I recall a similar thread about Don Imus or similar sentiments.

But I guess its differant when you are talking about black people, right?




posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by mahtoosacks
so you are condoning statutory rape cus it doesnt fit your definition of sadistic enough?

THATS sensationalism......


you still havent said whether or not you would be angry if someone called your daughter a ho on national tv or not yet..



Wow, you are good at this.


Go ahead and show me where I condoned statutory. Go on. I simply pointed out your sensationalism, yet it still continues.

Would I be mad if someone said that about my daughter? Sure. I would never watch that person again(which, again, is the power you have).

The big difference here(and it brings us back to the question that no one seems to want to answer) is, I would never use my child as a shill to gain popularity and votes by putting them in the spotlight in the first place, which is exactly what Palin did.

So, explain it to me. Why is it okay to use our child for political gain, but not okay for someone else to talk about that child?



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


People are just too thin skinned. Sure, people can say what they want, but I'm also free to say that they are idiots, and why. As are people free to say that I'm an idiot, and why.



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:00 PM
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all i ever said was this wasnt an infringement of rights.

you can keep trying if you like tho....


and since when havent politicians used their family to try and push their agenda. the closer the 1950s ideal the better for their image.

except this is 2009 and ideals are dead, and its the age of just spew out garbage and sell it. it back fired on him, cus people dont want to hear it.

i know you didnt say that people should have sex with minors, but you said that its not the same as rape cus you arent holding the girl down.

youll still be walking door to door getting kicked in the nuts



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


This country has become to concerned with political correctness. Remember what happened to Don Imus? "nappy headed ho's" got him censured. P.C. does influence free speech,if you let it! Just like it is here on ATS,there are rules of manners/decorum. That inhibits free speech,yet it allows for a more mannerly discourse. I will defend free speech till my death. However I will never defend ignorant behavior.



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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Actually, this is about freedom of speech. And it really isn't just this SINGLE incident.

A man was arrested for making a heated claim of an unconvicted officer's life, with no conviction to his words whatsoever. This was over a cop tazing, to death, a 17 year old.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If saying ima kill you is illegal, why are no hip-hip, rap artists, or emcees hauled off every time they spit a few syllables? Why does the "How to Catch a Predator" team have to wait inside intended 'victims' house for the predator to arrive? Why?

A subpeona can be, and has been, issued for Names, Bdays, PWs, etc. on web posters.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

What if the man in this case, was just pointing out a possible way to undermind the tax collection system? Invasion of privacy, with complete disregards to his first amendment granted rights?

Luckily nothing happened to Letterman, of course he's a big shot and nothing would, but that would be 3 strikes in the last what? Two weeks?

OH WAIT. Read up on FCC and Localization of radio/tv networks (coming soon to a theater near you... or not). Sucks when the hometeam loses, but hey we'll get em in their stadium next time, right?

Pretty soon those who can't handle walking away from a perceived idiot are going to be voting in legislation which will clearly shred up the first amendment. It happened on 9/11 with our 4th and 5th amendments, it can happen again. After all, the 9th amendment pretty much says no amendment is greater than any other. And it will be to "protect," in this case, "the majority."

We let some get skewed after 9/11, to protect ourselves. Should ask 'ol Ben Franklin what he thinks about that.

So is it impossible for it to happen again, under similar pretenses? I'm surprised school shootings and workplace shootings haven't been so over-exposed to show the need to legislate "teasing" people - psychologists would be rather short on work in this case. Ahh hell, there ain't that many of them anyway. Like it matters, ask GM's middle class.

This is a beautiful attempt at warning the people not to fail this time.

Because up next, it's straight to your thoughts. Maybe your property (Life and liberty : pollution/chems and well liberty, comparitively yes, absolutely, hell no. 85% of this nation suffers from some form of depression, there goes your pursuit of happiness).

They want more... and when you sit on the summit the only way to gain distance is to knock your adversaries into the ground. Bring a hard hat, cuz we can't own gats.

[edit on 11-6-2009 by shanerz]



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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"you gotta fight for your right to party" as the saying (and song) goes



as I've mentioned in similar topics/posts before...

People are too lazy and comfortable to do anything and others see it as an impossible task and give up but perhaps thinking "if someone else starts the domino effect, I will flow with it"



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by shanerz
 


looks like i was censored earlier... OMG MY RIGHTS!!!!

and thats just being kinda off topic....


i can see what your are saying tho. that the eventual censoring of people could result in laws.

i just dont think thats the case here. sorry. its my opinion, ignore it i guess since you guys are so good at it....

still think people need to use common sense when you are on the air in public. its called common courtesy.

besides what imus said was racist.



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by mahtoosacks
all i ever said was this wasnt an infringement of rights.

you can keep trying if you like tho....


and since when havent politicians used their family to try and push their agenda. the closer the 1950s ideal the better for their image.

except this is 2009 and ideals are dead, and its the age of just spew out garbage and sell it. it back fired on him, cus people dont want to hear it.

i know you didnt say that people should have sex with minors, but you said that its not the same as rape cus you arent holding the girl down.



Politicians have used their families for a long time, you are right. I'm not questioning that. What I am questioning is why someone who is brought into the political spotlight is off limits. Its a very hypocritical point of view.

I pointed out the difference between statutory, and rape, because it is the perfect example of how affected by propaganda people are.

Generally speaking, when a politician gets caught in a scandal involving a minor, it is "sex with a minor" when it is reported, not rape, because they are downplaying it.

In this case, nothing of the sort was said, yet it is called "encouraing rape". It is sensationalistic propaganda, it is everywhere, and you are a victim of it, my friend.



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
I am on board with what you are saying, but I have to follow up with a question:

Why is it okay for a lady to bring her daughter into the political limelight as a way to make herself look more family oriented and caring, thus trying to buy more votes, but it is not okay to say ANYTHING negative about that person that is being used?

I'm no fan of Sarah Palin and felt she pushed her kids into the spotlight way too much. But that's no reason for such an attack on a kid who has no way of defending herself.

Character is important, and anyone attacking a girl's character with sexual innuendo is no better than someone who mugs her on the street.



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by mahtoosacks
since when has david letterman ever been funny.

gotta admit... joking about a 14 year old being raped isnt funny (unless its a dead baby joke) and you know damned well how mad you would be if someone said that about your daughter.... no matter how much a ho she is


He made a mistake, humans make mistakes. He said he was sorry, yet the whole thing is blown outta proportion. He MEANT to dis the now adult daughter. Do I have to be held accountable for everything wrong I've done in my life? How many of us would be locked up if this were true?

How about those living in conditions in which they are forced to do so:
NAMELY BLACKS AND HISPANICS AND in America... I'm white - don't pull out the race card here (wasn't to you, was to jdm). (I would have included Natives as well, but since they are mostly their own nations... and I have relatives which are natives). I feel for all of them. But are we going to hold them accountable for living the way they are basically forced to?

If someone called my daughter a ho, I'd laugh and ask, "Based on experience?" They are a joke, so I make a joke. Then you can have nice civil (or not) debates over who's a ho and who's who. And laugh about it, instead of crying. Babies cry, babies get things handed to them on silver platters. Adults, hell most teens, can handle a joke. If you can't: get someone to help you cope with an oh-so-pampered life.



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


eh, im not really victim of anything other than just tired of people spouting off crap for ratings.

if you are in the public, you should act like it, and use a little decency is all. who knows... you could be someones role model... heaven forbid.

same goes all the way around here.

he shouldnt have said anything about the girl, but she shouldnt act like a ho, and her mom should watch her better to make sure she is behaving and set an example.

but this isnt an infringment of rights. its just a big charade to cover up the fact that WHO is trying to push level 6 on us with possible mandatory vaccines.

good other thread tho. i S&F'd it.



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by jd140
I don't think I recall a similar thread about Don Imus or similar sentiments.

But I guess its differant when you are talking about black people, right?


Really? Because I do. I was one of them sticking up for it. I can't stand Imus, think he is nothing more than a mouthpiece, but he still has the right to say what he wants.



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by mahtoosacks
reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


eh, im not really victim of anything other than just tired of people spouting off crap for ratings.

if you are in the public, you should act like it, and use a little decency is all. who knows... you could be someones role model... heaven forbid.



good other thread tho. i S&F'd it.



First, thanks for the S&F


And I am right there with you. I can't stand the "shock jock" culture. But it is still their right.

Again, the power lies in the public to watch or not watch these people. When it becomes headline story, it shows that someone is trying to shift how you feel about it.

You are right though, this is nothing more than another distraction from what is REALLY going on.



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by mahtoosacks
reply to post by shanerz
 


looks like i was censored earlier... OMG MY RIGHTS!!!!

and thats just being kinda off topic....


i can see what your are saying tho. that the eventual censoring of people could result in laws.

i just dont think thats the case here. sorry. its my opinion, ignore it i guess since you guys are so good at it....

still think people need to use common sense when you are on the air in public. its called common courtesy.

besides what imus said was racist.


I wasn't ignoring, I was typing.

But what I said is the case at hand. What happened to no innocent until proven guilty? Speaking freely ain't a right. It's an ability.

Using common sense is no excuse for someone to not say what they believe in. Like has been said, if you can't handle listening to an 'idiot' Walk away.



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by mahtoosacks
reply to post by cautiouslypessimistic
 


if you are in the public, you should act like it, and use a little decency is all. who knows... you could be someones role model... heaven forbid.

same goes all the way around here.


It does go all around, negative or positive has no credence in the fact that I can say what I want. Yes, I understand you think along the lines of someone should say what they want, but is Letterman trying to be a role model to kids? That's still one side of the point: Be a role model based on your beliefs, not what someone else wants your audience to be.



he shouldnt have said anything about the girl, but she shouldnt act like a ho, and her mom should watch her better to make sure she is behaving and set an example.


Mistake of identity. Truth will suck at times, I know. His intent was to be on an adult... valid and humorous.



but this isnt an infringment of rights. its just a big charade to cover up the fact that WHO is trying to push level 6 on us with possible mandatory vaccines.


That it a good point, and by no means do I mean to perpetuate the sidetracking. I'm just a believer that free speech has been, and will continue to be attacked/devalued. I ain't much for a lotta rap (where the hardcore stuff is), but there is a lot of real info you can garner from people who live 'somewhere else'. A lot of truth to the kinda junk tptp toy with, I'd hate to lose that for future generations.

and wow, i have to clear something up lol:



If someone called my daughter a ho, I'd laugh and ask, "Based on experience?"


Obviosuly, I meant "Based on experience of your daughter?"

Good thing mines too young for any real internet navigation or, based on her tendencies, I'd be
lol

[edit on 11-6-2009 by shanerz]



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by shanerz
 


i know what everyone is saying about free speech. trust me i do. i love it just as much as you. im exercising my right just being here right now. if someone were to tell me no i cant (and it doesnt go against t&c i guess) then i would be mad!

but still. the guy is in his 60s picking on a little girl, and putting her down about as bad as you can put down a girl.

if it was my daughter, id knock his *** out. his freedom of speech would meet my fist of justice. even if it was just a cheap shot cus his ratings suck, and he needs it.

and i think that sarah palin has a right to be mad. her daughter is now open for public ridicule and everything else that goes on in the shadows of crappy tv/internet, because she was trying to further her career.

just cus you have freedom of speech doesnt mean you dont have to apologize to people (which he did i believe), but still .....

the people who are mad are exercising their freedom of speech too ya know..



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by mahtoosacks
reply to post by shanerz
 


but still. the guy is in his 60s picking on a little girl, and putting her down about as bad as you can put down a girl.


So what about his age. He makes a living off of slamming people, and people include 18 year olds, who admittedly make a mistake, which can face a little ridicule, and should grow stronger from it. Take it as a lesson in life, after all the truth is she did do it.

Is it really so bad she has such a beautiful thing in her life?



if it was my daughter, id knock his *** out. his freedom of speech would meet my fist of justice. even if it was just a cheap shot cus his ratings suck, and he needs it.


And yes, this form of anarchy seems to be the only way we can get justice oft times, lately. And it definitely sends a clear, painful reminder of checking yourself in presence of certain people. Then again, he is protected from this by law, just as he is protected to speak his mind by the constitution.

I belive I shouldn't spit hate and violence. That's a long, long way from saying someone else should act like me.



and i think that sarah palin has a right to be mad. her daughter is now open for public ridicule and everything else that goes on in the shadows of crappy tv/internet, because she was trying to further her career.


She willingly stepped up on the campaign trail with her mother not so long ago, preaching functional, happy family. She messed up, she takes some heat, she gets better, and shes stronger. I know many more people who have gone through worse - with no one, at all, to stick up for them.

If you hurt someone, and have a sense of morals that says you should apologize, then by all means. Free speech, though, iis devoid of morals.



the people who are mad are exercising their freedom of speech too ya know..


I understand that, but to say, as has been said (not by offended party) that he should be fired or retire for doing his job, which he's done for how many years? Give me a break. People on comedy central make way bigger 'mistakes' and go about their life unwaivered.

But still, this isn't the only case. There are, as I have posted above, more blatent attacks on the constitution. A man being arrested for exhadurating that he would kill the cop who tazed a kid (17 yo) to death. He told the truth about posting, that he was angry, and he wasn't going to act on it. Just pissed and expressing it, never went near the man, just ousted from his couch. They don't do it to celebrities, they don't do it to sexual predators (much worse case, imho), so they can't do it to him. No unusual or unjust punishment.

This thread was about realizing what has been at hand lately - the endless assault on the constitution. I do think the Letterman case is a big sidetracker now, but that doesn't detract from the fact that others have been oppressed, unconstitutionally.



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by shanerz
 


i wouldnt say he has to be fired over saying that. i would say that he needs a little more class.

some people need to know the difference. it would be better if people would just think before they speak rather than just spout of crap cus you can.

and thats been my argument the whole time. i know my rights, and im not trying to push anyone out of theirs, but common sense is awesome.

although, my dad did always say that if youre going to be stupid, gotta be tough. which probably means get ready for your whoopin ya big dummy (not directed at anyone, just pointing out)

also know where to use certain jokes. i cant say anything i want to (even tho really i can) unless im prepared to pay for it.

[edit on 6/11/2009 by mahtoosacks]



posted on Jun, 11 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by mahtoosacks
 


I do believe in basically your same system. But I don't think there was anything wrong with what Letterman said. Exhadurated, agenda, so what (in this case). If people can't look past that, to realize everyone gets into bed, then it is not the speakers fault.

On a side note, I had my TV on and a commerical caught my attention. I heard some girls talking, then one said "That's so gay." blah blah... another lady says something Ahmonjulia or some crap to replace the word gay.

Then the message comes on in black back and white lettering, with a rather hateful tone of voice saying:
What's the deal with saying gay?
Do you even know what you're saying?
Knock it off.

LOL.

Another case of think before you talk, blatently followed by don't speak.

In this case I must ask. If you are a homosexual or bisexual, why so offended when someone speaks of what you are - different (true story, no hate)?



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