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2 Japanese Carrying $134 Bil Worth Of U.S. Bonds Detained in Italy

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posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 01:49 AM
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The Market Ticker has another article by Karl Denninger


Well, just when you thought that the Bearer Bond story was finished, it gets twisted yet again.

Remember, this was the claim:

“They’re clearly fakes,” said Stephen Meyerhardt, a spokesman for the U.S. Bureau of the Public Debt in Washington.

Uh, Bloomberg..... how about an accurate quote?

"Based on the photograph we've seen online, they are clearly fake. And not even good fakes," said Stephen Meyerhardt, a spokesman for the Treasury's Bureau of the Public Debt.

Online? You mean that the Treasury Department hasn't been sent a high-resolution digital photo of what was seized? A week after the fact?

I don't believe you Stephen.

In the last two years, Italian authorities have seized some $800 million of U.S. bonds in the Como area in northern Italy.

Those would be real bonds, I assume? But I thought Stephen said....

He added that there is only $105 million in Treasury bearer bond securities outstanding, so the $134 billion amount seized far exceeds the universe of outstanding securites.
market-ticker.denninger.net...


And he said his BS alarm is going on...yeah mine too!


It doesn't end there:

If what Meyerhardt says is true, some major financial institutions have been deceived by the securities carried by the two Asian men. This would be a bombshell and raise serious questions as to how many bank assets are actually made up of securities that for Meyerhardt are “clearly fakes.”

If counterfeit securities of such high quality are in circulation the world’s monetary system, let alone that of the United States, is in danger. International trade and exchanges could come to a halt.





[edit on 22-6-2009 by burntheships]




posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 02:12 AM
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For those who came in late. This scam has been going on for years as I mentioned earlier in this thread. Out of the Philippines where these alleged $500 Million Treasury certificates are as common and go for about the price of better quality toilet paper. But are less functional.

Picked up by the media and every conspiracist due the the current concern with confidence in the US dollar.

The most recent incarnation was last year in Texas. Note the $500 million face values, Switzerland connection, etc.

Mike



www.dallasnews.com...


The Dallas Morning News February 25, 2008

Federal authorities charged a Dallas woman in connection with a scam to sell billions of dollars in fraudulent Federal Reserve notes, including some with a face value of $500 million.

Maria Victoria Hoffman, 48, and two California men were part of a network that tried to market the fake notes to investors across the country, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials said Monday.

"You would think the half billion dollar denomination would be a dead giveaway that these notes are fake, but people are nevertheless taken in," Jennifer Silliman, special agent in charge for ICE's office of investigations in Los Angeles, said in a written statement. "For investors, the bottom line needs to be, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

Authorities say counterfeiting scam artists often sell fake securities to unsuspecting brokers for less than the purported value or in exchange for collateral on a loan.

The bogus $500 million bills, featuring a portrait of President William McKinley, were dated 1934 and doctored to appear old, officials said.

The largest denomination of currency ever printed is the $100,000 Series 1934 Gold Certificate. The bills bore a portrait of President Woodrow Wilson and were not circulated in the general public, officials said.

Ms. Hoffman was arrested at her Dallas home last week, customs officials said. She was released on $50,000 bond and was ordered to surrender her Philippine passport and to submit to electronic monitoring, officials said.

[...]

Agent Jones received a package from Ms. Hoffman that included documents and photographs that she offered as proof that she owned two boxes of notes totaling $275 billion, the affidavit said.

The two boxes were being held in Zurich, Switzerland, according to documents the agent received.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by burntheships

As you said..."simply in possession"

The men were transporting couterfeit bonds...attempting to cross a border. That is a Federal Crime, Illegal.

In any case...the impact on the credibility of American debt is unimaginable and the impact on global financial security is even more so!




Just repeating what I said. Counterfeit is not the same as fake. Repeat, counterfeit is not the same as fake.

If you print up your own $10 bills that look like the real ones, that's counterfeiting and a crime. If you print up $11 bills, it's not a crime, at least in most jurisdictions. Unless you're demonstrably trying to use them as lawful tender. There are no $11 bills. There are no $500 million undesignated US Treasury bearer bonds like these guys were carrying.

Carrying a suitcase full of Monopoly money is also not a crime.

I hope that's clear.

Mike

[edit on 18-6-2009 by mmiichael]


The problem is that it was over 200 of these bonds in the suitcase, the 1 billion was obviosuly fake or not real since such values do not exist, but there were also other bearer bonds in that case. Not holding these men accountable is fishy indeed.

It IS a crime to print a 150 dollar bill with the exact looks like a genuine 100 dollar bill. You are not correct.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by reugen
It IS a crime to print a 150 dollar bill with the exact looks like a genuine 100 dollar bill. You are not correct.


I won't debate the point. You may be right, or that is the case in certain jurisdictions.

My understanding, at least of British Common Law, is that it illegal to try to pass off something like a $150 bill as lawful tender.

I've seen realistic looking million dollar bills sold as novelties and tourist items.

So why didn't the US Treasury, Interpol, or some authority arrest these guys?

Why were the items returned to them, if reports are correct?


Mike

[edit on 22-6-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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I suspect something even worse, that these bearer bonds are in fact genuine and the US Treasury is now fending them off as fake. Probably they are going to make some governments/people very upset but they dont give a flying # about it. The US is in a very deep financial hole at the moment.

the financial system is just an illusion, it is based on trust solely.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by reugen

the financial system is just an illusion, it is based on trust solely.



Well said, but it merits rewording.

The financial system is jut an illusion, it is based on confidence only.

Hence the CON game we have been suckered into for the last hundred years or so. They actually CONvinced the planet to replace currency that represents assets with "notes" that represent CREDIT.

And the entire "game" is played based on THAT premise.

BTW - star for you!



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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We are all still waiting...and this is picking up traction...finally!
This just up on The Motley Fool...
The Surreal Life of the U.S. Dollar: the $134.5 Billion Bond Scandal in Focus!


Here is my article on the series of compelling dollar-related mysteries of the past couple of weeks. Please read it first, rec it if you apreciate the coverage, and return here for discussion. I want to know your thoughts on this matter, which I think is potentially one of the most fascinating chain of events I've witnessed in world news in many years! I urge all Fools to take a personal interest in seeing that a comprehensive and satisfactory explanation of these events is offered to the citizens of the world.
.... This simply does not add up, and I urge all Fools to join me in demanding an honest explanation of these events from our very own favorite admitted tax-evader: Tim Geithner.




caps.fool.com...

www.fool.com...



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by burntheships
 


I just finished reading this very same article! I like his summary of all the inconsistencies and unanswered questions, particularly the one about how carefully the work was done, but then with the wrong dates. and the fact that these guys definitely wanted to get caught. I thought the information about italy counterfeiting their own bonds during the was was very interesting.

my biggest worry with this still: is the fed involved somehow? are they issuing off the books bonds? are they pulling some trick? the fact that it seems entirely within keeping with their recent behavior to do something this outrageous. it is terrifying that they have just been given even more power.

is there the slightest chance that we will ever find out who these two japanese men are? one report said they were employees of the japanese finance ministry. did this turn out to be true or not?



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by earlywatcher
I like his summary of all the inconsistencies and unanswered questions, particularly the one about how carefully the work was done, but then with the wrong dates. and the fact that these guys definitely wanted to get caught.



This story has so many speculative spins it's hard to separate what happened from what reporters are guessing.

I don't buy this claim of the so-called 'Japanese' businessmen wanting to be caught. There are infinitely better was to do that.

But assuming it is correct, who might be the Master Planner. George Soros comes to mind. He's got a track record of gutting currencies like the British pound, for fun and profit.

If it is the case, that an assault is being put on the dollar, this wonky story does create a new 'meme'

People will forget the non-event realities and just talk about how the Japanese are dropping their dollar investments like a hot potato.

Maybe this is the journalism of the future. A merge of newspaper stories being picked up on the Web and being spun out in discussion forums and blogs.

Enough ambiguity and conflicting data to allow for customizing your own version of events.


Mike



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


it's not the internet causing this problem. it's the lack of facts coming out about the event itself and from our own government about what actually happened.

I think we can assume that something did happen, that two people were for some reason stopped with T-bonds that we must assume to be counterfeit. with all the worry over the value of the dollar, it's a fascinating and compelling story. without facts, speculation fills in.

I've been expecting something from soros. this would be right up his alley. i wonder how much he has riding right now on the failure of the dollar.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by earlywatcher
reply to post by mmiichael
 


it's not the internet causing this problem. it's the lack of facts coming out about the event itself and from our own government about what actually happened.

I think we can assume that something did happen, that two people were for some reason stopped with T-bonds that we must assume to be counterfeit. with all the worry over the value of the dollar, it's a fascinating and compelling story. without facts, speculation fills in.

I've been expecting something from soros. this would be right up his alley. i wonder how much he has riding right now on the failure of the dollar.



My sense is that a blackout was put on this story for a few days because with the remote possibility real bonds in an astronomical amount were being carried, there was a bombshell about to explode. The US is not doing a press release knowing whatever they say, it just brings unwanted attention to the dollar concern, and half the readers will think they're lying, anyway.

The whole thing is an embarrassment for the parties involved. Italy looks dumb, Switzerland like a haven for under the counter deals, Japan like they're desperate, etc.

The amount of money is what's drawing the attention. But if you've ever followed small stories, you'll know this bad reporting, inconsistencies, speculations and misinformation creeping in, is not unusual.

Mike



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by earlywatcher
 


I am sure they are still "investigating" Haha.

I think if enough pressure is put on the Fed through reporting and in the forums, they will eventually be forced to make some sort of a "story to present"



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by earlywatcher
 


I am sure the Fed would love to see this story dry up and blow away...
And yeah, the internet is not "the problem" for sure! The problem is the lack of truthful reporting, and the disinformation that is being spread, along with those who are trying to snuff the story!

Rest assured, all write ups will continue to place heat on the Fed!



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by Divinorumus
reply to post by mmiichael
 


If it has a government seal on it and all the legal babble printed upon it that attempts to convey that it is REAL, it is ILLEGAL. Do you think you could get away with creating a $200 bill that looks EXACTLY like a $100 bill with the exception of the denomination upon it, even if you never attempted to use it to commit fraud? I don't think so. If you print words such as LEGAL TENDER and put a nations name and seal upon it, you are attempting to create a fake forged instrument, even if it's not the real thing.

Any lawyers here that can clarify this?


They busted some guys back in the early 90's for forging US dollars in a denomination that wasn't real (I think $2 or something). They still got arrested and tried.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by exile1981

They busted some guys back in the early 90's for forging US dollars in a denomination that wasn't real (I think $2 or something). They still got arrested and tried.


I'll take your word on it. Thanks.

Believe it or not, where I live, Canada, there were $2 bills.

Semantic note, they were fakes not forgeries.

Any idea how they planned to spend them?


Mike



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


I seem to recall $2 bills in the US too though I haven't seen one for awhile. They were always rare but perfectly legal as far as i can remember.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by earlywatcher

I seem to recall $2 bills in the US too though I haven't seen one for awhile. They were always rare but perfectly legal as far as i can remember.


you may be right. I didn't think there were $2 US bills.

Maybe you saw what those guys were printing up.

And sorry to belabour the point. It is illegal to print up $1 bills, but I still thought printing $3 bills was not a crime. At least it isn't forgery.

Mike



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 


just looked it up on wikipedia and the $2 has an interesting history but it seems to still exist as legal tender.
en.wikipedia.org...

sorry that's not a hyperlink but the form isn't working right.

i understand that you were just talking about the difference between fake and counterfeit, and not about the $2 bill specifically.

according to an article i read this morning, the seized treasury bonds are being sent to the US right now for inspection. I wonder if they are on board a ship traveling 'round the horn since it sure seems to be taking a long time, the incident having happened on June 1.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by earlywatcher
the seized treasury bonds are being sent to the US right now for inspection. I wonder if they are on board a ship traveling 'round the horn since it sure seems to be taking a long time, the incident having happened on June 1.


They can put it on a diplomatic plane with an agent handcuffed to a briefcase. There is no requirement for them to act with any haste or inform the media of their findings.

Alternately a couple guys could carry the goods through customs in a concealed compartment of a suitcase.

At this point, with so many conflicting reports and unwarranted speculations grafted on, I don't think an accurate story can be put together yet.

I notice everyone on this forum and the press chooses to ignore the story I've posted twice, of a similar case in 2008, in Texas, where a woman ad confederates were charged with trying to sell $500 Million bonds and had photos of a stash in Switzerland with face value $275 Billion.

Vast conspiracy stories are always more appealing than shoddy fraud ones.


Mike







[edit on 23-6-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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A new article in the BBC...

Mafia scam

So if these were clearly fakes of no value, why would anybody be trying to smuggle them into Switzerland?

Banking analysts, say the answer is that the bonds have been used in the past as collateral to open credit lines with banks and other lenders. The borrower takes the money, and then disappears.

news.bbc.co.uk...



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