Britain's Elites Converting to Islam

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posted on May, 2 2004 @ 03:15 PM
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According to a report by IslamOnLine, an Islamic website, 14,000 of England?s ?elite? have already converted to Islam, with more on the way.

Britain's Elites Converting to Islam


According to a report by IslamOnLine, an Islamic website, 14,000 of England?s ?elite? have already converted to Islam, with more on the way.

The report cites ?the first authoritative study of the phenomenon? carried out by the Sunday Times on February 22, reporting that ?some of Britain?s top landowners, celebrities and the offspring of senior establishment figures? have converted to Islam in recent years.

The Times study was carried out by Yahya (formerly Jonathan) Birt, himself a Muslim convert, who is the son of Lord Birt, the former director-general of the BBC. He used a breakdown of the latest census figures to conclude that there is a major migration from Christianity to Islam taking place in England, with 14,200 converts to date.

Birt is quoted as arguing that an inspirational figure similar to the American Muslim convert Malcolm X, would first have to emerge before the next stage ? a mass conversion among Britons ? were to happen. ?You need great transitional figures to translate something alien (like Islam) into the vernacular,? Birt was quoted by the Times as saying. Professor Birt received his doctorate at Oxford University on young British Muslims


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posted on May, 2 2004 @ 03:37 PM
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its just islamic propaganda to beef up the muslims and recruit a bunch of fresh camels for a terrorist group.
muslims do it all the time.....iran, iraq, former afghanistan, u name it.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by silQ
its just islamic propaganda to beef up the muslims and recruit a bunch of fresh camels for a terrorist group.


Not all Muslims join terrorist groups. Islam is the fastest growing religion, it will probably be the worlds number one in 20 years.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 03:46 PM
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I dunno about "elites". That figure is probably the total number of conversions of any UK citizen.

I believe that this is just Islamic extremist propaganda.

14,000 people from a population of over 60 million isn't really what I would call mass conversion.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 04:08 PM
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When there are mass conversions of Muslims to Christians, people are so quick to call it a Jesus Christ miracle/phenemenon.

But when there are mass conversions of Christians to Islam they are now called terrorists?

And that ladies and gentleman is PROPAGANDA.

This War on "Terror" has opened eyes finally after three years and people are starting to think for themselves instead of having the media do it for them.

When people actually pick up the Noble Qur'an and read it for themselves, read the bio of The Prophet Muhammad and his teachings, they will accept Islam for what it really is beyond what the media tells them what Islam is.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by Illmatic67
When people actually pick up the Noble Qur'an and read it for themselves, read the bio of The Prophet Muhammad and his teachings, they will accept Islam for what it really is beyond what the media tells them what Islam is.



What? A manmade religion in the name of a tribal god?
As for the bio of Muhammed? I've read serial killers who seem more appealing. They certainly never managed to claim as many lives as Mohammed did with his book.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller

What? A manmade religion in the name of a tribal god?
As for the bio of Muhammed? I've read serial killers who seem more appealing. They certainly never managed to claim as many lives as Mohammed did with his book.


Repeated 101 times.
Refuted 101 times.

Leveller, when are you going to something new other than the normal "I hate Islam" rant?



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 10:31 PM
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Error.

[Edited on 2-5-2004 by Agent47]



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 11:33 PM
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WTF! Why haven't anyone told me? I should have taught them!



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 11:36 PM
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And being a giraffe and all, I feel I have to stand up for my brothers the camels. Not all camels ride terrorists!



posted on May, 3 2004 @ 01:32 AM
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At least when people subscribe to there being a GOD they have more than ample reason to have morals--they are certainly not always right, mind you.

If ther is no God, then what is the point in not getting your way, in spite of everyone else. I would more often tolerate aan Islamic than an Atheistic person. Don't get me wrong, I have friends that are both, but when I HAVE to hear one rant, I'd perfer the one wiht at leas a belief in GOD--less headace.

Oh, and befoee I get irritated people, I said MORE REASON, not that it IS so because I SAID so...



posted on May, 3 2004 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by Illmatic67
When people actually pick up the Noble Qur'an and read it for themselves, read the bio of The Prophet Muhammad and his teachings, they will accept Islam for what it really is beyond what the media tells them what Islam is.



What? A manmade religion in the name of a tribal god?
As for the bio of Muhammed? I've read serial killers who seem more appealing. They certainly never managed to claim as many lives as Mohammed did with his book.


This statement just once again proves the ignorance people have of the islamic religion... The Islamic god 'Allah' is (shock horror) the exact same god as the christian god and the Jewish god. Islam is just a different interpretation of the same teachings. And as for the teachings of islam killing more people than some serial killers you obviously dont know much about history...

The Crusades, where christians ramapged in the holy lands killing thousands of innocent civilians (muslim and greek orthodox)...

The inquisition, where, in the name of catholicism, thousands upon thousands were killed, tortured or both for the slightest breaches in religion or even for simply being a non-catholic...

As well as the many many witches burnt to the stake over the years for practising the teaxhings of the devil (many of whom werent even 'true witches, and if you knew anything about true witches, you'd know wicca is a peaceful religion)...

Its ignorant comments like this that really undermine this 'war on terror' and gives everyone the impression it is really a war on islam. Its also comments like this that make muslims angry at westerners for their stereotypical attitudes and arrogance...

Even though i dont practise and have renonced my faith, i was brought up islamic and it hurts me to see people so angry at a religion for reasons that are false...



posted on May, 3 2004 @ 04:36 AM
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Originally posted by silQ
its just islamic propaganda to beef up the muslims and recruit a bunch of fresh camels for a terrorist group.
muslims do it all the time.....iran, iraq, former afghanistan, u name it.



This is so good, i nearly feel from my chair, such ignorence!
Its great, my eyes are filled with tears from laughing so hard!!!
Thanks man, you are very funny indeed!
Please Borther, stop spreading lies, have abit more brains, thento just fart out your answer from your mouth!

PEACE!!

Guerilla



posted on May, 3 2004 @ 04:52 AM
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Originally posted by Illmatic67
Leveller, when are you going to something new other than the normal "I hate Islam" rant?



Probably when you stop spouting your brainwashed "Islam is perfect" crap.

Special AsianX. I hold all religions with the same high level of disregard. I don't single out Islam, although that does seem to have it's fair share of dangerous fanatics at the moment.
You accuse me of knowing nothing about Islam and then go onto the typical apologists excuse of the Crusades. It's a boring argument - "My religion might be crap, but this other one is crappier". To those of us who don't follow your tribal gods, they're all crap. Learn about the Crusades first as well. The people who use it as an argument are normally squawking parrot fashion what they have been told. They don't actually know a thing about it's history or that it was sparked by Islamic expansionism into Christian lands or attrocities like cartloads of thousands Christian POW heads being transported like a circus show around Southern Europe and North Africa. Each religion has it's fair share of guilt for the Crusades. Islam is as culpable as Christianity - the fact that it got it's ass kicked doesn't make it innocent. It just makes it a whining bully.

So your god is the same as the Jewish and Christian god is he? That's why all 3 faiths look down upon each other then isn't it? That's why there has been centuries of warfare then isn't it? Yup. When people have the same god they kill each other do they? You're talking crap.

The Holy Books of the 3 main religions were written for specific people. The Islamic and Jewish faiths are totally polarised with their stupid laws of grovelling and fawning before a god. Like he really gives a # if you wash a thousand timers or prostrate yourself towards the East. Do you really think a god would demand such trivialities from worshippers.

Still, I guess you have to go along with the flow if you want salvation don't you? The only reason you guys follow Allah is so you get better cookies in the afterlife. Hang on - isn't that service to self? Devil worship?
Hmmmm. Think about that one.



posted on May, 3 2004 @ 06:17 AM
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As for the same GOD and not fighting, between the Byzantine Empire(modern Eastern Orthodox) and the western Orthodox church (The Catholic church, as it is today), there was a war (over what I can't remember, but the outcome was that the winner's side of the issue became common sense to modern Christians, and I don't think that that much of anyone belives different). This particular war was between factions of the original Christian Empire, where there never was a doubt that they worshiped the SAME GOD, but more that the other group worshiped WRONG.

You need to take your own derogatory insuts through a history trip. To say that two Christian sects that FIGHT have not the same GOD is rediculous, no? Then why is it so hard to believe that JEWS AND CHRISTIANS WORSHIP THE SAME GOD? READ THE HISTORY: Christianity came into being as a declared fulfilment of JEWISH PROPHECY, and for the most part holds to VERY SIMILAR beliefs. Early Christianity was considered a SECT of the Jewish faith, run by JEWS, for God's sake, CHRIST WAS A JEW! The biggest difference between Jewish faith and Christianity is that the Jews are still waiting on their messiah while Christianity said He came 2000 years ago. Neither group clims to worship a different God.

As for Muslims, they are no more further removed in historical connection than the High Preist Melkezedeck--Old Testament. He was high priest to God back before the Jews had a Priest caste, and so was not ultimately of the same faith.

My God, it's like arguing that you don't both have toast when you're fighting a war over whether or not to eat your toast buttered side up or buttered side down. Do you expect that someone would enter these wars with buttered oatmeal? (Maybe I should quit reading Dr. Suess...)



posted on May, 3 2004 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by Leveller
So your god is the same as the Jewish and Christian god is he? That's why all 3 faiths look down upon each other then isn't it? That's why there has been centuries of warfare then isn't it? Yup. When people have the same god they kill each other do they? You're talking crap.

The Holy Books of the 3 main religions were written for specific people.

Oh, I think they are all the same Creator. Different religions seem to have been created for different peoples in different times.
This doesn't mean we who believe in a Higher Power, a Creator, don't believe in the same Entity. Look into antiquity, and see the silimarities among religions, ie how many believe in a trinity.



posted on May, 3 2004 @ 11:14 AM
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Study history as somebody has suggested that I should do (something I might add that I have done in abundance).

The Jewish god was created for the Tribes of Israel.
The Islamic god was created for the Tribes of Arabia.
The Christian god was created for those who belonged to neither tribe.

Worship of these gods is set in a specific way for their followers. If you don't follow the proscribed way of worshipping you aren't worshipping their god.

Ask any Imam, Rabbi or Pope if the opposing sects worship the one true God. They'll all sneer down at their noses and say no. Pah. To those of you who follow a religion you will state that your opposition might be created by one god but you'll always state that they aren't worshipping him properly. God has become a concept of man. An image of man. You put words in His mouth and attribute false emotions of jealousy and anger to him.

As for two Christian sects fighting? Why not admit that all Christian sects fight. You claim that this doesn't mean that they have different gods yet you refuse to acknowledge that what they are fighting over is the interpretation of God. Religious interpretation is everything in this world. It is your god.

Historical connections mean nothing. I'm well aware of the pagan elements, the history, the politics, the abuse of power and the control that religion has forced upon people. It doesn't mean that the gods are the same. Religion is all interpretation. God is all interpretation through those religions. When the interpretation differs so drastically as it does with the major religions it is plain to see that the gods of Islam, Judaism and Christianity are not the one God to anyone other than their own followers.

By the way. Islam rejects the Trinity as blasphemous. Is this really the same god then?


AF1

posted on May, 3 2004 @ 11:22 AM
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Unfortunately more and more people are turning to some form of god nowadays. Instead of using logic and reason to come to conclusions for themselves they just believe what other people tell them. All religion is bull# and the only good it is for is more death and destruction.



posted on May, 3 2004 @ 11:51 AM
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I think its all about fear and selfishness. Why else would someone turn to religion? Because there are so many others doing it so it must be right?

But if that's what people chose then so be it.
But why would someone turn to Islam?

Is it because of the harder praying schemes and seemingly stricter rules and all that that makes it look more "true" than other religions? I think that could be one reason.



posted on May, 3 2004 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by Leveller
Study history as somebody has suggested that I should do (something I might add that I have done in abundance).

Just because something is done often DOESN’T mean it’s accurate—I just told anyone out there to go study—not just you. THAT INCLUDES ME, because there are some things I will not understand. Self-study leads to isolated linear thinking. As Iron sharpens Iron buddy…


The Jewish god was created for the Tribes of Israel.
The Islamic god was created for the Tribes of Arabia.
The Christian god was created for those who belonged to neither tribe.

Worship of these gods is set in a specific way for their followers. If you don't follow the proscribed way of worshipping you aren't worshipping their god.

Then please TELL ME WHY BAPTISTS AND CATHOLICS DON’T WOSHIP THE SAME? They don’t; I’ve been to both…and how FAR is that arbitrary point of change supposed to occur. Let’s break it down into one sect of christianity: church of Christ. If you ever go to a church of Christ (not latter day saints—the ones that believe in A Capella singing), you see that there are two different views in the faith—that everything is an act of worship, and that there are only 5 acts of worship. ALSO, one side believes that the “gospel” is the good news from the battlefield, ie. Christ was born, died, and was resurrected for our sins (the battle’s already won), while the other believe that it is the entirety of the scriptures (this is a problem when you cannot add or subtract words from the Gospel). There are so many problems betwixt the two that they will say that everyone else is in error and they need to get back to the tenants of the BIBLE, but NEITHER WILL OFTEN (without damned good reason) SAY THE OTHER IS NOT HIS BROTHER and that they worship a different God! I’ve been called sister by those who believe that baptism means nothing, and have often had reason to call them my brothers and sisters, though I do believe that it is essential. By your argument NO ONE HAS THE SAME GOD!

How many times does it have to be stated in the BIBLE, TO THE JEWS FIRST, AND ALSO TO THE GREEK? Messianic Jews believe that Jesus was the Messiah and that they missed the boat. And from this following web page, the Muslims certainly as hell started off believing that we worshiped the same GOD.

www.philosophy-religion.org... by something with a PhD.


Ask any Imam, Rabbi or Pope if the opposing sects worship the one true God. They'll all sneer down at their noses and say no. Pah. To those of you who follow a religion you will state that your opposition might be created by one god but you'll always state that they aren't worshipping him properly. God has become a concept of man. An image of man. You put words in His mouth and attribute false emotions of jealousy and anger to him.


I don’t need to put ANGER into God’s mouth; the scriptures do it enough on their own. Which is worse, to war over semantics or to war over a god? I honestly don’t know the answers to that one, but what I do know, is that if there is logical reasoning going on, it is easier to start with the precept of a same God and to say any less would weaken many of the conversions back and for the betwixt the two.

From this site:
religion-cults.com...

The same God who made the hands of a Jew, made the feet of a Christian, and the eyes of a Muslim... we are all "brothers", made by the same Father, children of the same God... and it should be a good reason to love each other, instead of fighting against each other, as shamefully has often happened in history.

back to you

As for two Christian sects fighting? Why not admit that all Christian sects fight. You claim that this doesn't mean that they have different gods yet you refuse to acknowledge that what they are fighting over is the interpretation of God. Religious interpretation is everything in this world. It is your god.


Historical connections mean nothing.

If this is true, what the HELL is it you’re basing ANYHTING YOU SAID HERE ON? JUST OPINION? If so, you have no right to tell me whom I believe in. I believe in the God of Abraham and Isaac.


Ga 3:8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."


All three trace their religion back to Abraham, who was NONE OF THEM—he was the father of nations, a patriarch. They weren’t called Israel until JACOB, his grandson through only one child.

BTW, Abraham existed; his name is found on walls and tablets throughout the earlier Babylonian/ Sumerian (can’t remember which) empire.

1 Corinthians 10:26-33 FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS.
If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience' sake. But if anyone says to you, "This is meat sacrificed to idols," do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake; I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks? Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit but the profit of the many, so that they may be saved.


Why the HELL does it matter if I play to my brother’s conscious when it is in conflict with his? If I’m not of the same belief/practice as him –therefore-we-don’t-believe-in-the-same-god, then why do I have to worry about this scripture? When it comes to my faith, I try not to let it matter when we have differences in belief—though I have to live by what I believe. Paul and Barnabas couldn’t work together-they argued too much, so they split, and still called each other brother.

I'm well aware of the pagan elements, the history, the politics, the abuse of power and the control that religion has forced upon people. It doesn't mean that the gods are the same. Religion is all interpretation. God is all interpretation through those religions. When the interpretation differs so drastically as it does with the major religions it is plain to see that the gods of Islam, Judaism and Christianity are not the one God to anyone other than their own followers.

And just because you believe that they are not the same gods doesn’t mean that you are right—you haven’t given me any proof. Many of any of those faiths believe that they worship the same God—many of them having studied their scriptures for their faith.


By the way. Islam rejects the Trinity as blasphemous. Is this really the same god then?

Oh, that’s what the war between the Byzantium (Eastern Orthodox) and Western Orthodox (Catholic church) was fighting that war I mentioned earlier. They were fighting over whether or not the Trinity is three separate Gods, or if it was one. Both sides saw the other as blasphemous, and went to war. Now, they are both still considered Christian sects, and some other sects accept both.

I worte it and it gives me a headache!





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