Convince me, Please., page 7

reply to post by gilgamesh12

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Curious, How can you know the "real" answer to a thing that you have no "real" proof it exist?

Ah glad to see you are searching. I got good news for you there is a “reasonable” answer. You see all world beliefs are incompatible with each other meaning they are all WRONG or one of them is right. Jesus is the centre of the controversy. Muslims and many Pantheists say he was a great teacher, Jews say he was a lire. Atheists say he was a lunatic. Christians say we should fall on our knees and worship him. Jesus said himself the only way to get to heaven is through him!! So if he is wrong he is a lire or lunatic. However, I say it takes MORE faith to be an Atheist than it does a Christian. Here are some arguments to look into.

The Bible is the only book that has the audacity to base itself on prophecy.

www.100prophecies.org...

Here is one that is real easy to defend, meaning you have to believe in the Bible to believe in a lot of the prophecies. This one is matter of history. I am hoping it wets your appetite for more indepth study

www.apologeticspress.org...

Also, there are many good reasons to believe that Jesus rose from the dead (if he didn’t than I am wasting my time) For, example, 11 out of the 12 apostles died for their beliefs. These men hid from the Romans and Jews after Christ’s death. Three days later they saw Jesus and where willing to BOLDLY die for him. What changed their mind? Where they eye witnesses to the biggest miracle ever?? Eye witnesses!! These are not people who have been taught something and would die for it, they saw it and died for it. Don’t you think if they were making it up they would have not died for him? Oh yeah and why didn’t Jesus enemies parade the body around. He said himself he was going to rise from the dead? There are many other strong arguments for the resurrection!! I would read this first before anything.

www.garyhabermas.com...

Heck, listen to some debates from Atheist, Christian and Muslim scholars, and make up your own mind. In my experience the truth has always glorified God

www.reasonablefaith.org...

There is a lot more I want to say but this is enough for now. The problem with your question though is that NO one can be argued into faith. I can simply say that Christianity is the most reasonable choice. It took a tragedy and then a miracle in my life to remove the pride that had been my barrier to needing god, before I mocked him now I can't live without him. It takes FAITH for all world beliefs, including atheism. God gives us free will to choose him. We either read his book or we can ignore it, its not like he is going to kill his son twice. He can’t come down and eat breakfast with each of us either. It would take away our ability to freely choose him, love by definition cannot t be coerced. You need to be open. If you are open and search the Holy Spirit will find you!!

Oh yeah and if you think Christianity was made up from other religions, it is a bogus claim

Zeigeist Refuted



[edit on 19-6-2009 by stuff1]

reply to post by MrGummyPants

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You are correct in that so many believers (Billions, actually) can't be wrong. There is a God and the evidence for His existence is overwhelming when compared to all other thoughts.

In reality, there are only two options of how humans got here. we either evolved or we were created. All other options, including alien seeding is in one of those two groups.

Since evolution and the sciences connected to it have been shown to be false or non-existent, creation becomes the top dog of choices. There is evidence for creation as well.

The woodpecker is one.

The African bombardier Beetle is another -

www.discovercreation.org...

www.google.com...

Dinosaurs-

news.nationalgeographic.com...

www.google.com...


And the Coelacanth-

dinofish.com...

There are also many other proofs (evidences) that clearly point to a Creator. have you ever seen a design that didn't have a designer? As awesome, wondrous and complex as just our one planet is clearly speaks of a very intelligent God.

And there are more...if you'd like to hear about them.

reply to post by rocmonkey

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Um, it is conviable for something to be created then to evolve.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by rocmonkey

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Um, it is conviable for something to be created then to evolve.

Yes, in fact I believe that is part of the design that God intergrated into creation. Macro Evolution.

reply to post by MrGummyPants

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I have a degree in physics, yet I still believe in God. It makes it that much stronger.

You dont need to prove god.
Can you prove that you love some person?
Can you prove that there is nothing smaller than a quark?

Can you prove that 65 million years ago (WITHOUT A DOUBT) that an asteroid killed the dinosaurs? (its a good theory for now...but is it proof?) You must show me a video of an asteroid hitting the ground and destroying the dinosaurs otherwise I will say that it was placed by aliens (which I dont believ in) or placed by god to mislead us. Or there could have been a large iridium deposit underground and a gigantic volcano erupted and spewed iridium all over the crust of the earth. See, I can in 30 seconds shred to death the "proof" scientists accept of the asteroids killing the dinosaur.

The people who dont believe in God yet believe in aliens (even without proof) seems hypocritical to me. I dont require proof to know that God is here, and I also without proof know that aliens are not real. I dont need proof. It just is.

Can you prove to me that in 50 or a hundred years from now physics will still be the same. A hundred years ago, it was thought that time was a universal constant, a cherished belief. It would be ridiculous to think that time could be anything other than universal. Yet Einstein proved in special relativity that time depends on your velocity that you are traveling.

God is so above us that we simply cannot understand the proof required. The proof is around you, you are not on Gods level to understand his proof. You must accept it.

Who knows in a hundred what will turn up.
What about a thousand years?
What about a hundred thousand years?

reply to post by MrGummyPants

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It is simple really. God created science, he is the ultimate scientist. The make up of everything, it was him that made everything. Why is it so hard for people to understand that God and science are one not opposing entities? Just because we do not understand it all yet does not mean that here isn't a scientific explanation to how God created the heavens and earth ECT... We have just touched the tip of the iceberg in our knowledge of science. I am not sure that any amount of proof will change your mind, either one believes or one does not. You have made up your mind as to what you think, why are you searching for proof? You are firm in your convictions are you not? Or is there doubt? It will not be long before you will know who your God is, if it is proof you are asking for you will get it. Are you truly prepared for what you are asking? Do you have any idea what you are asking for? I hope your intelligence and logic are there for you when you receive your proof. Good luck with that....

reply to post by stuff1

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Thank you for sharing my friend. I saved all the sites you listed and can not wait to view/read them all. Star for you on sharing some awsume information with us!

reply to post by MrGummyPants

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The scientific evidence supports biblical creation. Its a fact. Don't take my word for it, other people have done all the hard work. Hence you can do a little yourself, here is a good resource for all you need to know.

Facts in Favour of Creation

The contributions posted at this site give some expression to the “other side”—dispelling the two most popular myths perpetuated by most advocates of evolutionism, namely:

1. The myth that the Neo-Darwinian macro-evolution belief system—as heavily popularized by today’s self-appointed “science experts,” the popular media, academia, and certain government agencies—finds “overwhelming” or even merely unequivocal support in the data of empirical science
2. The myth that the alternative—biblical creation—somehow fails to find any compelling, corroborative support in the same data

Knock yourself out...

reply to post by iulslion

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Who would have guessed, creationist sources.

Most of those articles are based on things science has yet to explain. Just because something has yet to be explained, does not automatically mean that your god did it. Just like the earth isn't flat, and the sun doesn't revolve around us.

The "scientific evidence" you have given us does support biblical creation, but that's because it comes from creationist sources. Give us some independent research that says the same thing.

reply to post by PieKeeper

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I bet you didn't even look at it. Ignorance is bliss. Science is science, weather it was done by a so called independent source or a Christian. Any person has personal beliefs, weather they admit it or not, and whether they have a name for it or not.

Facts don't bend based on religious belief, thats the point of science. These are scientific reports, done by PHD's and good scientist, using the scientific method. If you debunk them based on the fact that they believe in God, you are a fool. (In fact most of these are independent, but where collected by a believer, in order to prove a point) *rolls eyes*

This topic begs the question, I am showing you the answers. If you dont want to see them, its not my fault.

reply to post by iulslion

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I'd even go farther and say that who would you respect more? The person with the obvious and not at all hidden agenda or the one with the hidden agenda who spends most their time blasting and wantonly misintrepreting any other belief not their own who also spends the other part of their time claiming they have no such agenda? Or the person who does not so much try mislead you as fill in gaps they have no real proof to fill or the one that twists information in an attempt to push their beliefs all the while pretending they have no beliefs? The one that seeks to augment scientific knowledge for their beliefs or the one that seeks to pretend science only allows the possibility of their "non-belief" that they try so hard to push off on everyone else?
Of course, neither side really comes out smelling like roses in the hindsight, but I find the sneaky one that outright lies and twists things far more dangerous.

reply to post by IntastellaBurst

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And you make the mistake of assuming you know what I believe. Just because I criticise does not mean I am creationist I hate to inform you.

And we are all "lost at sea" as you put it sir. Just some of us acknowledge it and others pretend otherwise.

[edit on 25-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

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I'm sorry watcher, ... I wasn't responding to you individualy, in fact I didnt read your post, ...... in fact I might be in the wrong here, ... as I thought this was the " convice me of evolution " thread, ..... aha,

reply to post by IntastellaBurst

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Yet it came after mine and was of a simular format as mine and pointed the questions I asked back at the other way..... Fascinating.... But, I could be wrong of course. But those things make me wonder.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

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no no, ... I read your post now, ... your general theme seemed to center around " agenda's " ..... I was speaking generaly about creationists, ... sorry about the mixup brotha.

reply to post by IntastellaBurst

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Was about blatant dishonesty and covert dishonesty. And I was talking about both sides of the silly debate.

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