reply to post by MrGummyPants
Keep in mind. If its hard for you to prove to someone else that you exist. Then can you really prove anything??? Without a doubt??
Science suffers from this problem. Any scientific argument relies on an assumption which cannot be proven, every one. You must accept it by "faith".
EVEN ATHEISM IS A FAITH BASED BELIEF
Assuming God does exist...How much more can He really do to convince you he does?
Convince me, Please., page 4
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reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 09:24 AM by XXXN3O
reply to post by MrGummyPants
You have been posting around the internet havent you.
Whats the point in me or anyone else telling you what to believe?
Find out for yourself by reading the information available to you, you have the internet and I am sure you can find some holy books if you want both sides of the argument.
You are inviting someone to ram their stance down your throat regardless of reason here.
More importantly though if you have some knowledge first of all, then you can ask a proper question about a specific thing rather than firing everywhere if you get me.
[edit on 11-6-2009 by XXXN3O]
You have been posting around the internet havent you.
Whats the point in me or anyone else telling you what to believe?
Find out for yourself by reading the information available to you, you have the internet and I am sure you can find some holy books if you want both sides of the argument.
You are inviting someone to ram their stance down your throat regardless of reason here.
More importantly though if you have some knowledge first of all, then you can ask a proper question about a specific thing rather than firing everywhere if you get me.
[edit on 11-6-2009 by XXXN3O]
reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 10:46 AM by dominicus
reply to post by MrGummyPants
Just wanted to add 1 more thing, though I already basically wrote a giant book in my post above.
I remember when I woke up spiritually, or basically saw past the mind/thinking/ego. On that day I realized that "I think, therefor I am" is all pure bullsh**
The correct way that should be said is, "I am, therefor I think"
That Am-ness of you has been since you were a baby. You weren't thinking when you were 1 hours' old, or even 1 month old, there were no thoughts, just the Am-ness of you being.
But even to say, "I am, therefor I think" is soooo ego based, and the ego blocks God from being seen/experienced.
Get rid of the I Am-ing and the I thinking, and what is there? What is there behind it all, within it all, one with it all????
"I think, therefore I am" Meaning, if i can conceive but a thought, constrew a concept in my head, then i must exist in someway. Even if i was dreaming, the fact i think is evidence for my existence. In many ways, you can never prove your own existence to others. Good point mate, well taken.
Just wanted to add 1 more thing, though I already basically wrote a giant book in my post above.
I remember when I woke up spiritually, or basically saw past the mind/thinking/ego. On that day I realized that "I think, therefor I am" is all pure bullsh**
The correct way that should be said is, "I am, therefor I think"
That Am-ness of you has been since you were a baby. You weren't thinking when you were 1 hours' old, or even 1 month old, there were no thoughts, just the Am-ness of you being.
But even to say, "I am, therefor I think" is soooo ego based, and the ego blocks God from being seen/experienced.
Get rid of the I Am-ing and the I thinking, and what is there? What is there behind it all, within it all, one with it all????
reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 03:04 PM by Psychonaughty
reply to post by MrGummyPants
Read my words but look into yourself on the thought of belief.
Religion is 1% truth and 99% perversions, purposely.
It is the true test to become self enlightened.
Do not look outwards for that is the barrier that billions of people seem to not understand.
You must look within yourself, understand what you are, that the physical is not important , your body is simply what binds you (The being, that one that exists, that is, that "Be's") to this physical universe.
The physical Universe was created by the Divine One (Not he or she) but one, the one, it.
It is all that exists of the Physical Universe, therefor it is infinite and has always existed and will always be, because....it is all that exists of the physical (Very hard to wrap your mind around).
The Physical Universe is Concious and is the Universal Mind, it is single and nourishes, forms, and creates all things physical not within, but OF itself.
Everything physically is EVERYTHING else, your fingers ARE the keyboard, they are Mars, the Sun, your shirt, EVERYTHING, for EVERYTHING is SINGLE and physical....This is by far the MOST important concept to understand that the physical universe is ONE, 1, SINGLE.
The next step is understanding that this great Infinite Physical Universal Mind, is not infact the creator... The Universe is ruled under Divine Law, as is everything within the Creators existance.
The Divine Law dictates that of Kharma and such within those lines, the Physical laws would be of "If you jump up your going to fall down".
Now because we are singular with the Universal Mind it is the difficult part of self-realization to believe in such.
Look within yourself only, know that you are one, that you are everything for if you are one you can be one on one with the creator and free yourself of this Physical Imprisonment created for lessons to be learned.
Understand the Physical is only what binds you it is almost as if you are in a game the computer being your body and you being the one playing on it only in this game you can't get off the computer because it binds you.
Knowledge is not CREATED, it is PASSED, it is attracted to you, knowledge wants you to know you just have to learn to accept the knowledge.
believe in yourself only, not me, not anyone else, only yourself within yourself.
Read my words but look into yourself on the thought of belief.
Religion is 1% truth and 99% perversions, purposely.
It is the true test to become self enlightened.
Do not look outwards for that is the barrier that billions of people seem to not understand.
You must look within yourself, understand what you are, that the physical is not important , your body is simply what binds you (The being, that one that exists, that is, that "Be's") to this physical universe.
The physical Universe was created by the Divine One (Not he or she) but one, the one, it.
It is all that exists of the Physical Universe, therefor it is infinite and has always existed and will always be, because....it is all that exists of the physical (Very hard to wrap your mind around).
The Physical Universe is Concious and is the Universal Mind, it is single and nourishes, forms, and creates all things physical not within, but OF itself.
Everything physically is EVERYTHING else, your fingers ARE the keyboard, they are Mars, the Sun, your shirt, EVERYTHING, for EVERYTHING is SINGLE and physical....This is by far the MOST important concept to understand that the physical universe is ONE, 1, SINGLE.
The next step is understanding that this great Infinite Physical Universal Mind, is not infact the creator... The Universe is ruled under Divine Law, as is everything within the Creators existance.
The Divine Law dictates that of Kharma and such within those lines, the Physical laws would be of "If you jump up your going to fall down".
Now because we are singular with the Universal Mind it is the difficult part of self-realization to believe in such.
Look within yourself only, know that you are one, that you are everything for if you are one you can be one on one with the creator and free yourself of this Physical Imprisonment created for lessons to be learned.
Understand the Physical is only what binds you it is almost as if you are in a game the computer being your body and you being the one playing on it only in this game you can't get off the computer because it binds you.
Knowledge is not CREATED, it is PASSED, it is attracted to you, knowledge wants you to know you just have to learn to accept the knowledge.
believe in yourself only, not me, not anyone else, only yourself within yourself.
reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 03:20 PM by MrGummyPants
Originally posted by iulslion
reply to post by MrGummyPants
Exactly. Someone who sees the light. From this point of view, it is easy to take it to the next level.
I think, therefore I am.
I am therefore I come into being.
If I came into being, I came from somewhere.
Unless I am god, there must have been something before I was here.
Call it what you want, the singularity, the infinitely dense supermass, the one, the universal "I", or God.
Funny that when you translate the name of God (of the bible) it means "I AM"
[edit on 11-6-2009 by iulslion]
At this however you jump to your own conclusion.
Because i think, i do not necessarily have to be work of a creator. To think is but a chemical reaction, to think IS to know i exist, to know that I am alive and working. But does not imply that i was created by a god.
I can understand how MYSELF as a person was created, i've taken biochemistry before, seen how cells and form. How "life" begins in them, there is no place for a god in there, no place.
reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 04:26 PM by Eight
Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Eight
Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
This is one of those specious falsehoods that is endlessly repeated on ATS. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, especially when so many people, over so many millennia, have sought for evidence and found none.
There is no evidence for God. It is the Unnecessary Hypothesis.
Yeah I agree, it’s also tautology.
The true of the matter is the existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. It is said that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists.
God could end the doubt and disbelief if he so desired, he could simply appear and prove to the whole world that he exists. But I guess if he did that, there would be no need for faith.
[edit on 12-6-2009 by Eight]
reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 04:36 PM by moocowman
reply to post by MrGummyPants
Perhaps the most important question to be asking is to yourself, "What difference does it make "?
As a scientist you'll be aware of cause and effect so why not apply this principle to your search for a god, depending on what type of god your looking for.
To your mind how should a god be ? are you thinking of an Abrahamic type god or the creator of all that there is.Or something else ?
Look across the history if humanity, does there appear to be any effect of the god you envisage if so, what difference does it make, will you become different in some way ?
Would you choose to live your life like other people that believe there is a god? Are their lives more fulfilled or happier than yours?
If so, does knowing there is a god make a person happier or more fulfilled, if yes, why is that ?
Are you afraid of death ? The what if it's just death the end, no more your personality you, the person within a body ceases to exist, sad and somewhat scary.
If you knew there is a god, would it make death less scary for you, could you then live a happier life ?
Millions of believers have lived and all have died, they were all equally as happy,sad, healthy sick, respected and loathed as no believers.
So the fact that they believed there is a god there, didn't make one iota of difference to their lives as they could have led the same life not believing there is a god.
Perhaps it is our fear of death makes us need a god or more likely, to know there is an after life.
Use your scientific reasoning mind my friend it will take you to a logical conclusion -
There is no creator and science has a long way to go to finding the answers to the creation of everything.
Or
There is a creator which created all that there is, so everything is the creator including you.
. I write this post asking for ANYTHING to convince me, convince me of God, of religeon, of something more than science.
Perhaps the most important question to be asking is to yourself, "What difference does it make "?
As a scientist you'll be aware of cause and effect so why not apply this principle to your search for a god, depending on what type of god your looking for.
To your mind how should a god be ? are you thinking of an Abrahamic type god or the creator of all that there is.Or something else ?
Look across the history if humanity, does there appear to be any effect of the god you envisage if so, what difference does it make, will you become different in some way ?
Would you choose to live your life like other people that believe there is a god? Are their lives more fulfilled or happier than yours?
If so, does knowing there is a god make a person happier or more fulfilled, if yes, why is that ?
Are you afraid of death ? The what if it's just death the end, no more your personality you, the person within a body ceases to exist, sad and somewhat scary.
If you knew there is a god, would it make death less scary for you, could you then live a happier life ?
Millions of believers have lived and all have died, they were all equally as happy,sad, healthy sick, respected and loathed as no believers.
So the fact that they believed there is a god there, didn't make one iota of difference to their lives as they could have led the same life not believing there is a god.
Perhaps it is our fear of death makes us need a god or more likely, to know there is an after life.
Use your scientific reasoning mind my friend it will take you to a logical conclusion -
There is no creator and science has a long way to go to finding the answers to the creation of everything.
Or
There is a creator which created all that there is, so everything is the creator including you.
reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 05:57 PM by watchtheashes
OP, if you would please look over this thread you would have such a request. People just don't want to hear the message of salvation these days.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
All of the evidence is sufficient. I don't think any evidence should have to be provided more than the creation but if this is what you want here.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
All of the evidence is sufficient. I don't think any evidence should have to be provided more than the creation but if this is what you want here.
reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 05:58 PM by Psychonaughty
reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel
Extremely intelligent design.
At that.
But doesn't Link feel that way In Zelda "Man this world really fits my existence as if it was created for me to play in".
Hmm.... I do not believe in heaven,hell, the anti-christ (lol, what a heap of lense flares), but I do believe the Universe to be absoloutley concious and I do believe it to have been created.
If it is infinite (which I believe it is), than it has does and always will exist indefinitley, although this feeling of infinite measurement could have been created.
Time does not apply.
-Psycho.
Extremely intelligent design.
At that.
But doesn't Link feel that way In Zelda "Man this world really fits my existence as if it was created for me to play in".
Hmm.... I do not believe in heaven,hell, the anti-christ (lol, what a heap of lense flares), but I do believe the Universe to be absoloutley concious and I do believe it to have been created.
If it is infinite (which I believe it is), than it has does and always will exist indefinitley, although this feeling of infinite measurement could have been created.
Time does not apply.
-Psycho.
reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 06:00 PM by dominicus
reply to post by Eight
"He" already is appearing everywhere, in all things, the substance/ssence of all things.
If you or others can't see this, who's fault do you think this is?
Why do I need faith in the existence of someone/something that I see everywhere and in everything? I don't. At this point, faith is dropped like a bad habit, and truth is known.
If God could end the doubt and disbelief id he so desired, he could simply appear and prove to the whole world that he exists. But I guess if he did that, there would be no need for faith.
"He" already is appearing everywhere, in all things, the substance/ssence of all things.
If you or others can't see this, who's fault do you think this is?
Why do I need faith in the existence of someone/something that I see everywhere and in everything? I don't. At this point, faith is dropped like a bad habit, and truth is known.
reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 06:02 PM by watchtheashes
reply to post by Psychonaughty
God exists outside of time. He had no beginning. He is the Beginning and the End. He is the only One who could tell the end from the beginning. That is why prophecy is important especially to today's "I seek absolute proof generation." The people who don't want to accept it take it as the powers that be are fulfilling prophecies on purpose!!! They are Satanists. Why can't the simple explanation work? God would be the simplest explanation for all this.
Time does not apply.
God exists outside of time. He had no beginning. He is the Beginning and the End. He is the only One who could tell the end from the beginning. That is why prophecy is important especially to today's "I seek absolute proof generation." The people who don't want to accept it take it as the powers that be are fulfilling prophecies on purpose!!! They are Satanists. Why can't the simple explanation work? God would be the simplest explanation for all this.
reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 06:09 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by TurkeyBurgers
For what's got to be the third time now. Knowledge by it's self does not constitute ability. If this was otherwise there would be no differentiation between thought and action, which would be undeniably unrealistic. You could know perfectly how to do something yet not be able to do something *paralysis comes to mind, a person most likely still remembers how to move whatever yet is unable to*. Thus the reason those two words are not considered synonomous. One denotes vast amounts of knowledge and the other denotes vast amounts of power or ability.
For what's got to be the third time now. Knowledge by it's self does not constitute ability. If this was otherwise there would be no differentiation between thought and action, which would be undeniably unrealistic. You could know perfectly how to do something yet not be able to do something *paralysis comes to mind, a person most likely still remembers how to move whatever yet is unable to*. Thus the reason those two words are not considered synonomous. One denotes vast amounts of knowledge and the other denotes vast amounts of power or ability.
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