How to keep your butt Alive

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posted on Jun, 14 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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I've often wished that I could join a small self-sustaining community. Problem is exactly as bsbray11 insinuates. The government will not look too kindly on such a community. They will find (make up) some reason to "invade" it and take it out.

My biggest fear is that I'll be on the road when TSHTF and I will have a difficult time getting home (Truck Driver). We have some supplies here at the house and have plans to expand upon what we have. However, having all the supplies in the world won't do me much good if I'm not home to use/protect them. I have no dillusions about my abilities. I know my best bet is to hunker down here at home and do the best that I can.

One of the best websites I've found is Captain Dave's Survival Center. This website has awesome information available from a Survival Guide to a Medical Guide to an excellent Food Storage Guide.




posted on Jun, 14 2009 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety
Well feel sorry for us in the UK, we're rammed together like sardines in a tin. We're not even allowed guns


As soon as hauliers go bankrupt and supply lines get squeezed, i will buy as much tinned stuff with money i have left.

As soon as police knock on doors with a needle in one hand and tazer in the other, then that is d-day for me. We have the luxury of seeing TSHTF in USA first, so we'll have a weeks/months preparation.

Eye balling ATS posts, gives another few weeks warning


Yeah if the states sneezes we'll catch the cold too, it's just a question of how long and how bad.

You can own firearms in the UK.
It's one of the greatest illusions going in people.
Join a gun club, if your face fits (which it will unless you have an attitude problem). Fit a police approved armoury cabinet (make sure your DIY skills are on form). wait out the 3 - 6 months for provisional membership to become full. Apply for FAC, smile and play it like Mr Nice when the Firearms dude comes a calling to check out your security. If he's happy then apply for your weapons and enjoy being one of several hundred thousand firearms holders in the uk


Semi-auto firearms of pistol and shotgun are out. (thanks to Hungerford and Dunblaine ban!).
Bolt action rifles (any calibre although barrett 50 cal might be pushing it) are ok.
Cap and ball revolver are ok.
Semi-auto .22 calibre rifles are ok (no limit AFAIK to mag size).
Lever action carbines are ok.
Shotguns up to 3 shots in the mag are ok.



posted on Jun, 14 2009 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
We will be past all the economic bubble bursts so not to worry about that anymore. Crime will be rampant, Chaos everywhere.

There may be a grand finale waiting for the financial crisis most
are not counting on.

Warren Buffet discusses 100's of Trillions in derivatives set to collapse



It is beneficial to buy an Army survival manual or Boy Scout handbook.


I'd say get the info off the web for free, and put it in a double gallon
ziplock bag and like troops in the field sometimes do put it in a
large ammo can with some dessicant if you can.

US Army survival manual

SAS survival guide

Save as much money as you can to buy things that are not going to be
readily available or easily produced.

Bugout bag, nice tools like a good knife, folding saw, snare wire,
sharpening tools, ammo, reloading items, first aid kit, etc etc

Food can be grown, get some sealed heirloom seed kits, and store
them correctly. Use snares, jug lines for fish, make shift traps,
and get edible wild plant guides and medicinal plant guides with pix.

Water filters will wear out after awhile and you can cheaply filter
like this.

Improvised Water Filter



Leave your laptop and cell phones home they can be tracked by GPS, also new tires have RFID chips embedded in the sidewalls. They only ask your name for the warranty.


RFID range is actually fairly short, your cell phone can have you tracked
thru the cell tower system. If you still want to bring it with you just
in case just pull the battery out of it, and do not use it within miles of
your home base or camp. Walk a few miles use it, and then get the
hell out of there. It is better off you do not use it at all and it is likely
if their is a disaster the phone lines will roll over to priority calls only
that are for government efforts. Your laptop can be tracked if it is
modern and has the anti theft device onboard, or you go online in
anyway.



Find an alternate shelter, a cave, RV, Camper, 4 season tent or make your own with tarps and tie downs. Buy a spare tarp. You can also learn to make a Teepee or lean-to shelter.


Have a primary and secondary bug out route, and
have a bug out vehicle and perhaps a bike as a back up.

Don't spend money on RV's or other high profile items that
scream, I got lots of money come rob me !

If you look poor, they will think you are poor, and that can
get you ignored which may be a blessing if things get real bad.

If you think they will be rounding ppl up and have satellite recon at
their disposal you will need to get something between you and the sky.

It is not as extensive as shown in the "enemy of the state", but it is not
too damn far off from that.

The key things are Water, Shelter, Food, and Self Defense, and out of
sight is out of mind and the cities will not be safe.



Those who don’t own guns buy a Bow and LOTS of arrows, slingshots, with extra bands, baseball bat, mace, stun gun, whatever you can afford for protection against crime and to hunt small game. Fishing accessories will be handy.

Lighting, get a wind up solar flashlight for 25 .00, candles, multi fuel lanterns, waterproof matches or make your own by dipping in wax.

Cooking, use a multi fuel camp stove or use fire. Make pots using coffee cans with wire handles, fire starters are inexpensive and can easily be broken for several uses, many BIC lighters, the cheap ones wont hold up, lots of matches, build a tripod to hang your pots over the fire.

Heat, put a candle in a small can it will emit warmth, or buy hand warmers


If you can get an affordable long gun do it. A bow is great for long term,
but if you go up against ppl with guns, your gonna need a gun and you
need to use hard cover, reduce your profile, and practice with your weapon.

I recommend a .308 gun due to the decent range, if you just cannot
shoot worth a damn get a 12ga. pump.

If you can't shoot a long gun well, your likely gonna have trouble
with that bow too.

For fishing do the tricks that jug fishers use on youtube, it works.

Crazy funny jug fishing maniacs

This method I am now mentioning is illegal except in survival situations,
it was used during the great depression. Ppl would use crank telephones
to shock the fish to the surface, in modern times you can use an
insulation tester called a megger or make an equivalent.

A wind up solar light is good, also look for one that has the emergency
radio bands that you can listen too for an idea of what is going on.

Forget lanterns, forget fuel, once it is gone, its gone and if shot while
your carrying it pretty much assures your death.

Use things like a magnifying lense to start a fire, or fire steel,
or learn to make a fire bow. Some aluminum foil formed into
a parabola will catch lint, leaves, paper and other like items on fire
if directed at the sun correctly.

Doubt the power of the sun ?

Think long term, think travel as light as possible.

Steel and iron rusts and aluminum has been linked to ALZ and other
issues, and so I only use stainless steel or titanium cookware.

Stainless steel is affordable, titanium is not.

For heat you can do like bums do and stuff things between the layers
of clothing, and trashbags full of dry leaves act like insulation and
cost you nothing. Carry heavy duty trashbags as disposible panchos
and for water proofing a makeshift lean-to. Stacked deeply
a double or triple sided lean-to will hide your heat signature from the air.




Avoid hypothermia and heat stroke, dress in layers, add or remove them as necessary, always carry extra socks and extra pair of hiking boots.


It itches like hell but wool will keep you warm even when it is wet.

If you are in a high heat area like desert southwest consider traveling
by night and trying to get below ground by day as it is 59 degrees
3 feet down all year round.




Money, in the event money still has value carry small bills and change. A few bars of silver is inexpensive and can bribe the border guards or be used to barter.

Bartering, this may be dangerous. You don’t want anyone to know what you have. If you must barter some handy items are, (dollar store items), bar soap, deodorant, twine, rope, razors, hair brush, mirror, hand sanitizer, bags of hard candy,etc. It’s funny the things you will miss when you don’t have them.


Til things stabilize I'd not be known to have anything and the border
guards are going to be monitored, and fearful of being turned in by
each other and thus bribery may not work if things are severe enough.

Once the movie "The Road" comes out watch that for an idea of
what it could be like if the worst part of ppl comes to the surface.

Surveillance will be widespread and unforgiving.

Your links you listed are good, and I offer SurvivalBlog as well.

survivalblog.com...

I do not consider myself a true expert, just somewhat experienced.

Good Luck to you all !


[edit on 14-6-2009 by Ex_MislTech]



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by cnichols
 


I grew up on a farm near a small town in the upper Midwest. To this day, most of the residents routinely can and freeze produce to take them through the next year, as well as pick apples and black walnuts (black walnuts line several of the streets in town and when they fall, people just go by and pick them up). Asparagus grows wild in the ditches as do wild strawberries. Farmers raise their own livestock and most of the residents purchase fresh eggs and free-range chickens from the farmers (as well as ordering sides of beef or lamb). The deer are huge (much larger than these southern sickly things), abundant, and can supplement a family’s diet for most of the year. If you don't like the taste, cook up some jerky. Turkeys have made a come-back, and are becoming more plentiful. There is a lake or gravel pit within three miles in any direction of my home farm, and we regularly fish (although sometimes all you catch are bullheads). People take care of each other, and houses are cheap ($80,000+/-). The schools are good -- both boys and girls have to learn to sew, cook, use power tools and learn to work on small engines as home-economics and shop are required for all students. I would go back in a minute if there were sufficient jobs-- there's something very decent about the people and satisfying living in a community where you know EVERYONE and everyone knows you. It's like being permanently stuck in the 50's. My kids have always loved visiting their grandparents, aunts and uncles because even as small children they could roam the town at will, walking to the grocery store by themselves to buy candy, or strolling to the swimming pool, the post office, or stopping in the bar to get a soda and chips or to play pool.

The downside is…what do you do for entertainment in a community of 807 when you are used to the big city? The only “Polo” or “Coach” around there would be the neighbor’s dogs. You have to learn to live in blue jeans, t-shirts, and a baseball cap (except for Sunday church). And, how do you make a living when jobs are scarce for the residents? Realistically, while I have read many posts from people talking about "invading" such communities when TSHTF, I don't think most will be welcomed as the residents have been called hicks and made fun of by large portions of the country for years (think Radar O'Reilly, Gopher, Prairie Home Companion...). They have lost their best and brightest to the call of the big city, and your larger corporations have put their mom & pop businesses out of business. They particularly do not want people to come in and buy houses to let sit empty as insurance against economic disasters in the future. What I'm trying to say is that you are welcome to become part of the community now, before TSHTF. They don't want you if this is merely your survival plan.


[edit on 16-6-2009 by mjfromga]



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by Ex_MislTech
 





I'm so glad you came along with all that expertise !!! Thank you. I think it's more difficult for me to travel light but at least it's all in there. I like the emergency fishing idea, as well as the rest.

It's best to get as many good ideas together as possible. Thanks for the link, as well!



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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Reading through the thread, I believe that I noticed a few missing items.
Before I go into this, some items will be more suited to hunkering down at home, if suitable.

1) Tool kit, both mechanical and carpentry. You need to be able to repair/fabricate yourself

2) Knowledge, Knowledge, Knowledge. Having all the fancy knives, firearms, axes, filter units, etc is great, grand and glorious.
a)Do you know how to properly use them (firearm/bow practice was mentioned above, and is worthy of repeating)?
b)Can you sharpen a knife, an axe?
c)Can you hook up and start your generator, or your water filter?
d)Read the books (the Foxfire series is particularly good for simple living), read info from the net, and then go out and put it to practical use. Hit the woods and prove to yourself that you can find water, find food, and do well. e)Learn how to service and maintain those items that you will be using. f)Find out know that the latest whiz-bang piece of kit may not be as whiz-bang as you thought.
g)Practice your plans. Again, when TSHTF is not the time to hear 'oops'.

3) Again, checklist, drill and practice, so that your reactions, when it is real, are automatic.


[edit on 28-6-2009 by Viking04]

[edit on 28-6-2009 by Viking04]



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 08:53 PM
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Water is first and foremost beyond critical. A Katydyne micro water filter for example is good for up to 13,000 gallons of water, and there is a stainless steel pot for distilling water.

After three days without water, you're very, very weak. Water first.

Food. It takes a few hundred pounds of food per person per year for sustenance. Better think about that. That's a lot of food.

Self-defense. If you have secured water and put away food, keep in mind that others will be running out real soon and most desperate to acquire one way or the other, by hook or crook, these items. They'll kill without hesitation.

Firearms are good, of course as you'll likely come up against others with firearms. A machete is very useful and has multiple uses. A tomahawk is one of the more useful tool/weapons one can ever obtain. A saw, folding for space, are the most practical.

A small folding shovel as the military has is almost a necessity. 6-mil polyethylene will have more uses than you can shake a stick at. Multi-tools are good, but in addition, I'd recommend a good drop point skinning knife and a bowie type for chopping and fighting if necessary.

Museum Replicas has some very good spear points and butt caps. No need to mount them necessarily, but to have them can be critical.

Within months of a disaster, wild animals will become a very real problem. Nothing like a long-handled spear to fight off damn near anything.

Don't forget your fire starters, and I'd recommend a good magnifying glass in addition to matches, steel and flint, and magnesium starters.

You'll need a good cup. Make one out of a can if necessary, but in preparation, you can buy a good cup and store small items inside.

Don't forget some first aid. Needles and thread, salt, and if possible, peroxide.

With heat and salt alone, you can treat so many things. Get a few silver coins and put in your canteen. Silver purifies your water, and small silver particles (filed from a one-ounce .999 silver ingot as in Pawn Shops) will clean and sanitize any infected wound.

Oh.

I'd stay out of sight for at least a few months as best you can. That's when the two-legged predators will be at their worst.

Every approach is a threat.



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 09:00 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Wow dooper you always seem to amaze me! You are also a survivalist. Too cool. thanks for all the tips. Something is in the air, not sure what but I'm prepared.

Basically I only have a years worth of food. i'm thinking if I ration it with a bit of hunting I can stretch it out longer.

I'm hoping to figure out how to connect my generator to my well pump by switching it from a 220 to 110. Maybe I'll google it.

Thanks again my friend!



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by Viking04
 


That's my downfall is practicing. I do have some tools. this time I bought flowered, colorful tools so they dont keep dissapearing. They wouldnt fit in my bug out bags but I plan to load my ruck to the hilt if SHTF.



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by wonderworld
 


Get on the internet, even go to Lehman's, and get yourself a Bison hand water pump. It's good for drawing water from 200 feet deep and you can use in on a ground well.

Even if you have a well dug and then capped, it's ready to go when you need it. A good plumber can connect it to your lawn pump well if you so need.

Water.

You can have everything else, and without water, you'll perish in short days.

That 6-mil poly? Can collect rain water, can make a solar water still. Or, can keep your or your key stuff dry.



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


I live within 2 blocks of a year round creek. Last time I checked they wanted 700 bucks for a shallow well hand pump. My well is 80 feet deep. Would a hand pump work? I have sevral bottles of clorox bleach to trat water plus I bought a lot of those water tablets from emergency essentials.



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 09:32 PM
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I'm not the be-all end-all, and don't even consider myself a 'survivalist', but I do know this thread has plenty of mis-information on it that will get you killed, or (more probably) leave you starving to death.

For starters, why are you running and where are you running too? Most people fail to understand that you need four categories to survive: Food/Water, Shelter, Transportation, and Security. I wouldn't put them in any order. If you don't have one of those things you will die. Running takes away the shelter aspect, minimizes the availability of food and water (you have what you can transport and forage), diminishes security (you are now in unfamiliar areas attempting to forage in competition with other equally armed and crazed groups), and puts a needless strain on your transportation (forget RFIDs; what are you going to do with a blown header?).

Now, let's put away our Hollywood notions of what a survival situation looks like. Instead, let's look at reality. The world is tragic enough that we don't have to make things up. We can categorize our disasters into two sets: sudden and gradual.

Sudden is when something like a Tsunami wipes out your town or a civil war breaks out. Sudden disasters displace people, meaning that you have a lot of homeless, hungry people wandering about. Sudden also means that there is plenty of damage to infrastructure and nobody is really in charge as all the vestiges of what was once the Nation-State are now rubble. If you doubt this, take a look at present-day Somalia or recent Liberia.

Gradual is something like what happened to Argentina or the Soviet Union. Electricity still runs, water still flows. People may or may not show up to work, depending on if they're getting paid, and all the rich skipped town, taking what wealth they could transform into commodities with them. Somebody is kind of in charge, but most are too poor to notice or care.

In either scenario, only if you really have to (like your home was just razed) should you venture out into the world. In such an event your best bet is to find someplace like a friend or relative to hunker down with, rather than spend too much time on the road taking your chances with the poor and hungry or opportunist criminals.

The most laughable concept that is often brought up is national "martial law." This implies that A) soldiers and police officers are devoid of personal attachments and B) they will work for free.

Personally having befriended a few LAPD officers who were on the force during the Rodney King riots is rather telling anecdotes of our government-provided protective service. In short, if the riots could not be contained and their homes were threatened, they were going to abandon their posts and defend their homes with their neighbors. When it comes to having to decide, your home is less important to them than their home.

So, what does this mean? In the event of the "big one", many soldiers and policemen will not show up to work unless they can get something for the effort. There will be no martial law, because there isn't a quantifiable government to actually have a law to enforce.

Let's look at other aspects: living off the land. Although living like Jim Bridger is an interesting idea, it really isn't very well thought out one. Especially when thousands, if not millions, of people are thinking the same thoughts. You are now in competition with them over the same resources, and as urbanization has reduced the amount of wildlife available ask yourself, how long will this last before we have barren forests and streams? Or, before more enterprising individuals kill you for your daily catch? You can't be looking for food, preparing food, resting, and doing sentry duty at the same time.

So what's the most obvious, viable solution? Enjoy the place you live. Be like good boy and girl scouts and be prepared. Be prepared for long summers and winters indoors and close to home as lunatic mobs attack one another thanks to their ill-preparedness and poorly thought out plans.

Plant your herb and medicinal gardens in your back yard. Congregate with neighbors and encourage thrifty, self-reliant behavior. Learn the skills you need to maintain your property and home when stores stop selling knives and roof-shingles. Preparation and the availability of resources on-hand is much better than aloof planning and hoping for the best.

As always, good luck to each of you.




posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by GreenGlassDoor
 


Thanks. I hope most are prepared for both scenarios, staying put with emergency supplies and having a backup emergency route evacuation plan.

Crime will be rampant. Your herbs will be stolen. I have all mine bought in bulk.

Give a couple examples of how this info will get us killed please. I hope you read through the links on the first page but all the info is welcomed.

The more the better but wouldnt want to misinform anyone!

Thanks again!



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by wonderworld
 


Yes. The Bison pump will draw water from a well 200 feet deep. And if it comes from the well, you won't have to endure that disgusting chlorine taste.

The Bison isn't the only one. I just mentioned it because of the quality and flexibility.

If things to tits up, I would expect a good 25% to 30% of the population to be dead within the first 30-45 days.

Of the survivors, half of those would likely be dead within a year.

So if you can make it that first month or two, you're doing pretty well. If by chance you make it that first year, you're in pretty good shape.

And by the way. If you have food for a year, get some non-hybrid seeds and you can supplement your food supply as the season allows.

Besides. That dried and canned crap can really get old fast!



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


I'll check out the Bison pump. Youre right the powdered, dehydrated and canned food will get old in a hurry. I have it all sealed properly to last for 15 years, with no oxygen.

I also have a crap load of condiments, maple syrup, all seasonings you can imagine. Books on eatible plants etc. It's a scary thought so many will die. This is what concerns me about rampant crime. People will kill to feed their children.

I did buy a bunch of bulk non hybrid seeds and learned the only way to store them long term is in the fridge. Is that true?



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by wonderworld
 


One evening I grabbed some food and sat down in front of the TV, and it was one of those crime documentaries.

There was a young man and young woman who went on a murder spree across the US.

They would scan the ads in the paper for items for sale - campers, cars, boats, and so on and call to make arrangements to look at what was for sale.

Always a couple, usually middle aged or older, they would naturally let their guard down, as this appeared a nice, normal couple.

The female would find a reason to go outside, and the guy would kill the couple, grab what was practical, take their credit cards, and cash, and leave in the couple's car.

They did this multiple times.

The woman was the deceit.

There will be every dirty trick in the book used to get close to you when things get bad. I can see women used (who can be just as bad as men) and even children. Even if a man isn't present at first, overnight you may find your "guest" has unlocked the door and let in a nightmare.

In combat, I always had the thirty foot rule. No one got inside that 30 feet that didn't get dead. A man can cover thirty feet in a sprint in two seconds. Not a lot of time to react.

Not everyone will be a predator. But it would be better to assume they are. That way, no surprises.



posted on Jun, 28 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by GreenGlassDoor
 

Crime will be rampant. Your herbs will be stolen. I have all mine bought in bulk.


Crime is rampant and you plan for a walkabout? This makes sense? Those nice things you have won't be appropriated by other parties as you make your way through the unknown wilderness?

I was hoping everyone was familiar with their social anthropology to realize that survival is a group thing, above the family at the tribal and clan level. Simply put, one person cannot be all things -there is a division of labor. It is unrealistic to assume that a nursing mother will also be a fisher.

OK, so your herbs are going to be stolen? By whom? Your neighbors? If that's the case then you need to consider moving or having a better relationship with your neighbors.

Now let's suppose you have some herbs in the backyard. You see me looking through my kitchen window at those herbs. You can either kill me, and then hope that nobody does the same or you can form a cooperative unit.

Knock on the door and say, "Hey, you look pretty hungry. I have a proposition. I can give you some food, and in exchange you watch over the garden. You could kill me and take the food, but then you are responsible for both growing your own food and for your own security. I hope you don't plan on sleeping."

I respond with, "Good point. I will ensure that your food does not get stolen."

Division of labor.

Such things do occur. When Argentina and Soviet Russia collapsed the communities internalized. Farmers markets take the place of supermarkets and even trudges on day-to-day.

OK, so what about the need to head for the Hills. If you're doing this, your goal is to run and hope you aren't killed or have your goods appropriated by bandits or a group of bandits pretending to be the government. This is when the BOB and only BOB are needed, since you're feeling danger -countless of refugees can attest to this. Speed to the nearest point of safety is key. So since you're running and running, are you really going to stop and forage around to let whatever it is your running from catch up to you? Are you going to go slower towing tons of fuel and generators, food provisions, ammo, etc?

That is realistically my qualm is people expect some kind of Red Dawn thing. I can appreciate the sentiment, but it's not very realistic. Even during civil wars and volcanoes doctors, bakers, pharmacists, and all forms of skilled labor aren't killed off.

Perhaps a serious survival discussion isn't necessarily about the cool things we're going to do running around the woods in a ghillie suit -but how we are going to interact with the people around us.

Just a thought.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by GreenGlassDoor
 


You have valid points; although it's difficult to trust your neighbors in a time of crisis. Most have never lived through a crisis.

We seen the lack of government help during Katrina and how inadequate FEMA was at emergency response.

Finding those we can trust will be beneficial. The difficult part is trying to convince your trusted friends that SHTF. They think it's gloom and doom and dont like to discuss it. Others think the Government will be there to help.

The few of us on ATS and also a lot of Mormon people will be better off than most. The more prepared we are the less we are dependent on the government to save us.

We should probably think about being self suffient, which some of us already are.

I'm glad I live rural. Hopefully I'll miss out on on the action, when the banks and grocery stores and gas stations are boarded up.



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


I like the 30 foot rule and since you were in combat I wished you were on my team! You also know your stuff about survival. I'm glad we are friends!



posted on Jun, 29 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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Might I humbly suggest my kit?

Here goes;

Intensive survival training with foraging,
First Aid training
Extended course in car mechanics
1 heavy duty knife that can be used for chopping
Pair of good boots,
lined water proof coat (you can wear sweaters, a couple of shirts or stuff newspapers if it gets cold)
Cool hat - you still need to cut some shapes after the SHTF
Jerry can of fresh water and water filters
A weeks worth of food, dried fruit, preserved rations, candy bars
Sleeping bag, blanket and eight foot tarp
Fire lighters, matches, lighters and spark set
compact fishing tackle and line
Flashlight and clockwork radio

All this can be stored in your trunk and is low maintenance. You can keep more elaborate stuffs at your bug out site, if you can reach it.


[edit on 123030p://pm3007 by masonwatcher]





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