*claps*
Brava good fellows...brava...
This is an interesting argument on all sides...if one were to actually believe that your bible is in fact accurate on any level.
Of course, in order to go along with all of these 'illuminations', people would have to forget or ignore all the atrocities committed by the church to begin with.
The inquisition...the Templar insurrection...the Salem witch trials...prominent religious figures molesting trusting children...the absolute domination and subjugation of all cultures dissimilar to their own...and failure to dominate these cultures led to their annihilation.
These do not seem to be the acts of 'good' people.
Not to mention that Hitler considered himself to be a 'good christian', which I find both ironic and idiosyncratic.
Anyone who doesn't believe (or agree is more like it) with 'jesus' will be cast down and blah blah blah?
Really?
Truly?
That does not sound like the teachings of love and tolerance.
Sounds more like tyranny to me.
What of those who never even heard of 'jesus'?
Are they to be tormented for eternity as well?
Any religious group who claims that they are 'chosen' are just perpetuating hatred.
A most venerable emotion, but done for the wrong reasons.
Any act of hatred or subjugation can be justified by hiding behind the bible, all in the name of 'jesus'.
I have seen and been at the receiving end of christian bigotry (due to my ability to think and discern for myself and not follow blindly) and after careful deliberation, have decided to side with anyone who considers themselves the Adversary.
The time of christian hypocrisy is over.
What if none of this is true?
What if we're all just people sharing space on an insignificant ball of mud and rock and water hurling through space, marching ever forward towards entropy?
Or...
What if the AntiChrist is someone who has the guts to stand up and rail against the oppressive church dogma and force them to answer for, what can only be objectively described as crimes against humanity.
What if the AntiChrist is a person of true moral character, who will neither bow down nor remain silent in the face of overwhelming odds?
The church totes chastity and poverty, yet high ranking church officials live in absolute opulence while many others commit heinous sex crimes against innocent children.
Any 'religion' that would have you deny yourself the most basic of harmless pleasures, follow blindly by suppressing individual thought and create discord against all who are different from you, in my opinion, does not have your best interest at heart.
I am a firm believer that we all have the basic human right to believe as we choose, and to 'do as thou wilt', but upon trying to force those beliefs on another, you commit a crime against their person.
Hiding behind the bible has always been a convenient excuse to take zero responsibility for your individual actions.
"If she floats, then she is a witch, if she drowns however, then at least she died a good christian death..."
Dead is dead and there's no one who can argue otherwise.
And who is anyone who has the right to persecute 'she who is a witch' anyways?
On what authority?
If your god wanted to smite the 'unrighteous', then he should come down and do it himself, not send a bunch of lackeys with delusions of grandeur and false authority to do it on 'his' behalf.
I have gotten off topic, but my point remains.
There are those who seem to ignore one simple fact, the AntiChrist may not be a biblical construct, but a man who is simply tired of christian hypocrisy and wishes humanity to be truly free.
That is a man I would follow.
Because that, dear friends, is how I roll.
...
...
I am reminded of a brilliant quote by a very clever man...
"Satan is the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept them in business all these years."

[edit on 11-6-2009 by eniac]

[edit on 11-6-2009 by eniac]

Many people have tried in many ways to suggest many different candidates for the Antichrist. However, the Koine Greek sentence structure (use of verbs) and phrasing format absolutely does NOT ALLOW the Antichrist to be a ‘nation’, ‘religion’ a ‘place’ or a ‘thing’. The Antichrist MUST be a person who WAS alive, died with a wound to the head, STAYED IN HELL FOR A LONG TIME BAKING and then comes up out of hell. PLUS, and most important, he must be someone who when the Jews recognize him after the strong delusion sent by God is lifted, THEY RUN IN TERROR. He must also have face recognition by the vast majority of the whole earth.

I'd like to nominate myself for this most prestigious position.
Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I'll do my best to bring Armageddon home to you!
Thank you!
Good night!
Release the dogs!

Originally posted by SGTChas
Many people have tried in many ways to suggest many different candidates for the Antichrist. However, the Koine Greek sentence structure (use of verbs) and phrasing format absolutely does NOT ALLOW the Antichrist to be a ‘nation’, ‘religion’ a ‘place’ or a ‘thing’. The Antichrist MUST be a person who WAS alive, died with a wound to the head, STAYED IN HELL FOR A LONG TIME BAKING and then comes up out of hell. PLUS, and most important, he must be someone who when the Jews recognize him after the strong delusion sent by God is lifted, THEY RUN IN TERROR. He must also have face recognition by the vast majority of the whole earth.

see, here's what worries me.

I generally admire scholarship of the kind which your good self and the OP obviously possess. although I consider bible scholarship relatively unimportant. but then people spend their lives studying lichen, or laminar flows, or the reign of King Edward... and it's certainly no less noble a pursuit.

but what worries me is that some psycho reads a thread like the OP, decides that Obama is the anti-christ, and decides to take him out. it only takes one wack-job.

and, you know, he isn't.

if you stare at a stone long enough, you start to see all kinds of funny things in it. if you study Beatles songs hard enough, you get ample 'evidence' of admission that Paul McCartney died in 1967 (google it). if you stare at the Bible long enough, you start to see all kinds of patterns emerging. if you're determined enough, in a body of work so large, you can find symbolism and numerological quirks to support whatever you want. but then you can do the same with Moby Dick.

Wow Sarge.

You opened up a can of worms with this one.

For starters, I'm not the Anti-Christ, at least I don't think so. I'm also not God.

Believe in God if you like, or not. Believe in Christ if you like, or not. Matreya, Indigos, fallen angels and humans gettin' it on, whatever...

I've read all the pages of this thread and it amazes me how easy it is to incite heated, insulting debate amongst a group of supposedly free thinkers.

SgtChas posted his beliefs. I applaud that. Others are doing the same. I applaud that as well.

If I go to the video rental place and read the back cover of a dvd and decide it looks like tripe, I put it back on the shelf and move on. I don't take the move home and watch it, so that I can tell everyone else in the world how much it stinks.

This thread has gotten WAY off topic quite a few times. Hell, there was even some waste of skin threatening to alert the FBI? What a joke. If you don't want to READ it, and I mean READ it, then get out. Pretty simple.

If you have your OWN information about what you feel is the Anti-Christ, post your OWN thread.

If I believe the Bible to be correct, that is MY belief. If you don't, that is of course YOUR belief. Your belief is no more or no LESS valid than mine, but again, that should fall into a different thread.

Again, one more time, not that it matters. SgtChas opened up to us with his beliefs, based on what he (and some others) believes to be pretty valid research. Accept it for what it is, or don't.

If you want to ask questions, you should do so. I find that works very well. Throwing around labels about fundamentalism, terrorists, right-wing nutjobs, or whatever else, is childish, ridiculous and completely counter productive.

If you don't believe it, or don't want to discuss it, just go start your own thread.

Its a highly interesting theory.

You have at least inspired me to look into this topic more.

Thanks for your work/theory

Excellent post SGTChas. Very well put together. I have long believed that the Beast (anyone who is against Christ is an anti-Christ. There isn't just one) would be Assyrian, but you showing the Germans to be the Assyrians gives me something to look into myself. Not saying I doubt your research, just that I have to research things myself before I believe them. And having a large portion of German ancestry is now unsettling.

I am curious about your belief in Hell. From what I have studied, any reference to hell in the Old Testament is translated from the Hebrew "Sheol" which, more accurately translated would be grave or the grave. In the New Testament, you again have "Sheol" translated into Hell as well as the Greek "Hades" which pretty much means the same thing grave or the grave or place of the dead. All dead people went to Sheol or Hades. They were not this eternally flaming place of damnation that is currently believed by so many. Another word translated into Hell is the Hebrew "Gehenna" which translated is the "Valley of Hinnom". This is an actual place where refuse was burned up. Literally a garbage dump. Sulfer and so forth were added to keep the fires burning. Now when an executed criminal was not deemed worthy enough for a proper burial, the body would be thrown into this flaming pit of refuse and references to this "Gehenna" are the opinion of what some should deserve - not what they will get. It is my understanding that those who do not make it into New Jerusalem (what most incorrectly refer to as Heaven) will suffer the "second death", which is to say they will cease to exist physically or spiritually.

S&F