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Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Given the fact that we've wrongfully accused innocent people of being terrorists, and after all this Guantanamo nonsense... I'm going to go ahead as token liberal to say- this is a good idea.
The Miranda rights are protecting American citizen's constitutional rights. Not sure how that would cover a foreign person taken into custody on foreign land during a "war".
On top of the fact, they are not US citizens protected under the US Constitution.....
Here is a perfect example of why this would not work:
The problem is you take that guy at three in the morning off of a compound right outside of Kabul where he’s building bomb materials to kill US soldiers, and read him his rights by four, and the Red Cross is saying take the lawyer – you have now created quite a confusion amongst the FBI, the CIA and the United States military. And confusion is the last thing you want in a combat zone.”
stopsocialism.wordpress.com...
These are not some DUI stops in the wee mornings on New Years Eve. These are people taken into custody on a battlefield - people who are not sitting around knitting sweaters for their kids. Many times there is no time to stand around asking questions and whether or not they want to contact their lawyer. And do we really want these people shutting up? They may have information that could save the lives of our soldiers over there.
Sorry, I will never support this. Bad idea! And they are not covered under our Constitution!
[edit on 6/10/2009 by greeneyedleo]
So what if they knew your neighbor was a terrorist?
And what if you do not live on a battlefield?
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Well, you captured them and called them criminals.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
You're holding them prisoner...sorry...your problem now. You wanna change the rules, you gotta face the music. And if you can't uphold the tenets of justice and common decency...well, then the bad guys won. Enjoy your new world.
Originally posted by jerico65I wonder how much of these benefits our guys that were captured were given? They were just tortured, mutilated and then executed.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Like I said, if that means you are letting them write the rules, then the Bad Guys won. Your Bill of Rights and Constitution are shredded... Magna Carta rights are gone. Fella...you guys lost.
Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by mental modulator
So what if they knew your neighbor was a terrorist?
And what if you do not live on a battlefield?
I really do not understand what you are asking me. But I will give it a shot.
If my neighbor was a terrorist, then I would hope they would take them away. I have had horrible neighbors that I did NOT hesitate to call the cops on (over and over).
And I do not live on a battlefield. The rules of engagement in foreign lands during a war - can not be compared to stupid criminals walking the streets of America.
Again, not sure I really understood your questions.
I do NOT live in a utopian world where I think every human being deserves equal treatment. Reality is.....there are evil people out there (Americans, foreigners, Christians, Muslims, etc etc) who do not care about you, or me or anyone else. And America is NOT to blame for all the evils in the world. There were evil people before America was ever formed.
[edit on 6/10/2009 by greeneyedleo]
[edit on 6/10/2009 by greeneyedleo]
Originally posted by jerico65
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Like I said, if that means you are letting them write the rules, then the Bad Guys won. Your Bill of Rights and Constitution are shredded... Magna Carta rights are gone. Fella...you guys lost.
Not us; everyone. But that's the sort of thing that happens when a liberal is in office.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Originally posted by jerico65
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Like I said, if that means you are letting them write the rules, then the Bad Guys won. Your Bill of Rights and Constitution are shredded... Magna Carta rights are gone. Fella...you guys lost.
Not us; everyone. But that's the sort of thing that happens when a liberal is in office.
So Obama suspended Habeas Corpus, initiated all that bad stuff that currently defines the good ol' U S of A? It was the Liberal cartel pulling the Bushie's strings? Thanks for clearing that up. Guess I had it all wrong...my bad.
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
So Obama suspended Habeas Corpus, initiated all that bad stuff that currently defines the good ol' U S of A? It was the Liberal cartel pulling the Bushie's strings? Thanks for clearing that up. Guess I had it all wrong...my bad.
Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Given the fact that we've wrongfully accused innocent people of being terrorists, and after all this Guantanamo nonsense... I'm going to go ahead as token liberal to say- this is a good idea.
Originally posted by ravenshadow13
What if they are a citizen and they are a terrorist and they are accused of a crime?
Do they not get Miranda Rights just because they are terrorists?
Are terrorists not informed of essentially the same things that the Miranda Rights informed Americans of?
I'd like to be hopeful...
Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
Originally posted by ravenshadow13
What if they are a citizen and they are a terrorist and they are accused of a crime?
Do they not get Miranda Rights just because they are terrorists?
Are terrorists not informed of essentially the same things that the Miranda Rights informed Americans of?
I'd like to be hopeful...
If you are an American citizen accused of Terrorism, and arrested in a Non-Combatant situation, then yes, I do believe you should in fact be afforded certain rights, but NOT if you are a foreigner, and/or most certainly NOT if you are taken prisoner on the battlefield.
Originally posted by WhatTheory
Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
i dont exactly see why its a big deal. arent they already guaranteed those same rights?
Please enlighten us and tell how the terrorists are already guaranteed miranda rights?
Originally posted by WhatTheory
Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
i never said they were guaranteed miranda rights...just basically the things in the miranda rights were guaranteed under the geneva convention
First of all, terrorists have no rights under the Geneva Conventions.
Secondly, the point is that the Obama administration is ludicrous because miranda rights are only for U.S. citizens so trying to apply this to terrorists is frankly bizarre and a sign of mental instability.
Last December, Congress enacted the Detainee Treatment Act (DTA). It requires that the military must grant each detainee a Combatant Status Review Tribunal (CSRT) at which to challenge his detention. Assuming the military’s CSRT process determines he is properly detained, the detainee then has a right to appeal to our civilian-justice system — specifically, to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. And if that appeal is unsuccessful, the terrorist may also seek certiorari review by the Supreme Court.
This was a revolutionary innovation. As we’ve seen, Rasul did not (and could not) require Congress to allow enemy combatants access to the federal courts. Congress could lawfully have responded to Rasul by amending the habeas statute to make clear that al Qaeda terrorists have no more right to petition our courts in wartime than any other enemy prisoners have had in the preceding two-plus centuries. Instead, Congress responded by giving the enemy what are in every meaningful way habeas rights.
For the enemy combatants, habeas corpus, to borrow the Times’s articulation, is simply a “right to challenge their imprisonment” in federal court. So what does the DTA do? It allows a detainee who has been found by the military to be properly held as an enemy combatant to challenge his incarceration in federal court. Under DTA section 1005(e)(2), that court (the D.C. Circuit) is expressly empowered to determine whether the detention is in violation of the Constitution and laws of the United States — which, of course, include treaties to whatever extent they may create individual rights.
Thus, the DTA has already granted to our enemies the very remedy critics claim is now being denied. Moreover, the new Military Commissions Act (MCA) does not repeal the DTA. It strengthens it. That is, because the Supreme Court’s Hamdan decision created confusion about whether the DTA was meant to apply retroactively to the 400-plus habeas petitions that were already filed, the MCA clarifies that all detainees who wish to challenge their imprisonment must follow the DTA procedure for doing so. But, importantly, the right to challenge imprisonment is itself reaffirmed.
That the DTA does not refer to this right as habeas corpus is irrelevant. It’s not the name of the remedy that counts; it’s the substance. The DTA gives the detainee exactly what habeas provides. Therefore, it would have been pointless for the MCA to add yet another round of habeas.
On June 12, 2008, the United States Supreme Court ruled in Boumediene v. Bush that the Guantanamo captives were entitled to the protection of the United States Constitution.[84][85][86][87] Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for the majority, described the SCR Tribunals as "an inadequate substitute for habeas corpus" although "both the DTA and the SCRT process remain intact."[88]
Originally posted by centurion1211
Originally posted by WhatTheory
Also, apparently Congress was not briefed about this policy. How is this possible?
[edit on 6/10/2009 by WhatTheory]
Prediction:
Pelosi will be forced to admit she was briefed, but then claim the White House lied to her ...