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Miranda Rights for Terrorists

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posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
[You are hilarious man, please, keep the personal insults coming, especially after you outright admit that I was right and you are wrong.


And I really don't care if you're right and I'm wrong. As you had said in a previous post, it's semantics. It's like the Korean War (a police action) and the Vietnam War (a conflict).


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
The fact that you don't care that there is a difference between a military conflict and a war is downright sad, especially if you are truly in the military as you claim. You of all people should care what is actually happening(but you obviously dont have that capacity).


It's not that I don't care, it's just pretty low on my priority list at this point in time.

"Obviously don't have that capacity". Oh, that was funny.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Your grandkids will ask you, and you will give them false information. I hope you're proud.


Whatever. I hope they don't have to, but at least my grandkids will know how to fight.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
For the record, I'm working raising the children of this country. You go on killing people, I'll go on helping them grow.


I bet you are. Just keep in mind next time you're at the mall that it's me and my friends that are allowing you the privilege of doing that. You're welcome.




posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by jerico65


And I really don't care if you're right and I'm wrong. As you had said in a previous post, it's semantics. It's like the Korean War (a police action) and the Vietnam War (a conflict).


It's not that I don't care, it's just pretty low on my priority list at this point in time.

"Obviously don't have that capacity". Oh, that was funny.



Whatever. I hope they don't have to, but at least my grandkids will know how to fight.



I bet you are. Just keep in mind next time you're at the mall that it's me and my friends that are allowing you the privilege of doing that. You're welcome.


K, I'm not going to get into your little competition here. This is silly.

You can feel great about yourself all you want, but fighting an illegal occupation against someone that is no threat to america does not preserve my freedom. It detracts from it, and creates enemies of it.

As I said, it may seem semantical, but it is imperative in our country. All of our laws are based on semantics. It is VERY important to know what is actually going on. You apparently don't.

So wait, you being military means your grandkids will know how to fight? Thats a new one. Are you trying to imply I dont know how to fight? You're going to have to come at me with something a little better than that if you want to get to me.

And, going hand in hand with your final comment, next time you look at your kids, remember that it is me and other teachers that allow them to grow and learn.

Which is more important for our country? Killing foreigners or educating our youth?



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
K, I'm not going to get into your little competition here. This is silly.

You can feel great about yourself all you want, but fighting an illegal occupation against someone that is no threat to america does not preserve my freedom. It detracts from it, and creates enemies of it.


It's America, not america. And yes, it's important.

And yes, I feel GREAT about all that I do. I'm proud of every one of the guys in my unit. The more terrorists that are made to take a dirtnap, the better.

So, what do you teach? That the military is full of bad, stupid guys that are breaking the law with their "illegal occupation"? Just curious.

Not a threat to America? Really? That's interesting. Seems like "death to America" is the terrorists war-cry.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
As I said, it may seem semantical, but it is imperative in our country. All of our laws are based on semantics. It is VERY important to know what is actually going on. You apparently don't.


Yep, I won da dum soljers that John Kerry mentioned. I know what's going on; like I said, it's not really high on my priority list.

Priority 1: Targets that are engaging me.

Priority 2: Running out of Diet Pepsi.

These are not in order of importance.



Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
So wait, you being military means your grandkids will know how to fight? Thats a new one. Are you trying to imply I dont know how to fight? You're going to have to come at me with something a little better than that if you want to get to me.


I don't imply anything. If you have trouble looking in the mirror because of something like not being in the military, that's your problem.

I'll teach my kids and grandkids integrity first, service before self, excellance in all that you do. Nice little set of building blocks.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
And, going hand in hand with your final comment, next time you look at your kids, remember that it is me and other teachers that allow them to grow and learn.

Which is more important for our country? Killing foreigners or educating our youth?


If it wasn't for the military, you wouldn't be teaching much of anything, actually. And what's more important? Actually, both are.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by jerico65


It's America, not america. And yes, it's important.

And yes, I feel GREAT about all that I do. I'm proud of every one of the guys in my unit. The more terrorists that are made to take a dirtnap, the better.

So, what do you teach? That the military is full of bad, stupid guys that are breaking the law with their "illegal occupation"? Just curious.

Not a threat to America? Really? That's interesting. Seems like "death to America" is the terrorists war-cry.


Yep, I won da dum soljers that John Kerry mentioned. I know what's going on; like I said, it's not really high on my priority list.

Priority 1: Targets that are engaging me.

Priority 2: Running out of Diet Pepsi.

These are not in order of importance.


I don't imply anything. If you have trouble looking in the mirror because of something like not being in the military, that's your problem.

I'll teach my kids and grandkids integrity first, service before self, excellance in all that you do. Nice little set of building blocks.



If it wasn't for the military, you wouldn't be teaching much of anything, actually. And what's more important? Actually, both are.


america. America. Please, refrain from criticizing typos. It has no place here and honestly is generally the last grasp of someone who is losing an argument.

The more terrorists that you kill the better? Have you considered that they probably consider YOU the terrorist?

They are no threat to america. They can hate us all they want. Thought does not equal action.

If I have trouble looking in the mirror? What are you even talking about? Why do you insist on trying to make this a personal thing instead of speaking on the subjects at hand? Not choosing to go into the military is something I consider one of the best decisions I ever made.

I'm not sure how teaching your grandkids good values means they know how to fight. Somethings missing there.

as for what I teach, I teach in a BLC at a public middle school.

And finally, I do agree, without previous military engagements, I wouldnt be teaching. However, this current Extended Engagement is doing nothing to enable my freedoms. It is taking it away.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Your perspective is a xenophobic one...

I'm sorry but I believe that the rights we have belong to everyone...

Thank God the man I voted for is in Office!


It must be nice and convienent to have your cake and eat it too.

Since Obama believes they should NOT have miranda rights, is the man you voted for who is in office also xenophobic?


As the video clearly shows, Obama was NOT for miranda rights.



So is Obama, the man who you voted for, all of a sudden deeply worried about their rights or did he purposefully lie or did he change his mind for political reasons.


[edit on 6/12/2009 by WhatTheory]


Have you ever heard of indirect effects? You know... non-linear ones?



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
america. America. Please, refrain from criticizing typos. It has no place here and honestly is generally the last grasp of someone who is losing an argument.


And you're a teacher and a typo like that is OK? Another reason to homeschool. And yeah, I'm sweating over this.


Typos don't help with an argument.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
The more terrorists that you kill the better? Have you considered that they probably consider YOU the terrorist?

They are no threat to america. They can hate us all they want. Thought does not equal action.


I'm not worried about what they think. Thought doesn't equal action, but sometimes, it does.

Sure, the more terrorists dead is better. Less of those scumbags blowing up cars in markets and killing women and children. (And could someone explain to me how killing civilians is going to further their goal?)


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Not choosing to go into the military is something I consider one of the best decisions I ever made.


I'm glad you made that decision, too. It's great to be able to have that choice, isn't it? Once again, you're welcome.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
I'm not sure how teaching your grandkids good values means they know how to fight. Somethings missing there.

as for what I teach, I teach in a BLC at a public middle school.


Yeah, well, if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand.



Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
And finally, I do agree, without previous military engagements, I wouldnt be teaching. However, this current Extended Engagement is doing nothing to enable my freedoms. It is taking it away.


And just how is this war taking away from your freedoms? You're here on ATS, and you can spout off whatever you want. I bet there isn't a government agent standing over your shoulder, telling you what to teach.

You know, rights that our government now wants to give to terrorists (trying to get the thread back on track). Isn't the Geneva Convention suppose to be the rights of POWs??



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by jerico65


And you're a teacher and a typo like that is OK? Another reason to homeschool. And yeah, I'm sweating over this.


Typos don't help with an argument.



I'm not worried about what they think. Thought doesn't equal action, but sometimes, it does.

Sure, the more terrorists dead is better. Less of those scumbags blowing up cars in markets and killing women and children. (And could someone explain to me how killing civilians is going to further their goal?)



I'm glad you made that decision, too. It's great to be able to have that choice, isn't it? Once again, you're welcome.


Yeah, well, if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand.



And just how is this war taking away from your freedoms? You're here on ATS, and you can spout off whatever you want. I bet there isn't a government agent standing over your shoulder, telling you what to teach.

You know, rights that our government now wants to give to terrorists (trying to get the thread back on track). Isn't the Geneva Convention suppose to be the rights of POWs??


My goodness, you just cant keep it civil, can you?

You do realize this is a message board, right? And as such, it's not a place where I tend to proof read. Pretty sad that you need to keep going there though. Perhaps you can actually stay on subject? ANd really, do you think teachers are immune to typos?

It is nice to have that choice. You have done nothing to secure that freedom. SO no, I will not thank you.

Living by a good moral code(which I will give you credit, the things you listed are just that) is not the same thing as being able to fight. If one were to truly live by the things you speak of, you would not be okay with this occupation. Period.

Actually, there is a VERY strict curriculum that I am forced to stick to. So in a way, yes, there are agents over my shoulder. But thats not even the point. Because of this "war", we no longer have habeus corpus. I can no longer teach my children about due process. I cannot teach them about the letter of the law. I spend every day teaching kids to be able to read between the lines and not fall for blanket statement such as "terrorist". Whats funny is, my BLC students get it. Kind of sad that you can't. This is a DIRECT result of the illegal actions of our military over the last 8 years.

Yes, Geneva is about POW's(among other things), in a TIME OF WAR, which this is not.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Have you ever heard of indirect effects? You know... non-linear ones?

What the hell does that mean?
I will ask you again and see if you answer it.

So is Obama, the man who you voted for, all of a sudden deeply worried about their rights or did he purposefully lie or did he change his mind for political reasons since the video clearly show him stating that they don't deserve miranda rights.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 07:02 PM
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Well im a liberal also but Im not sure about this one. What makes me so against them being treated the way they do is because so many get wrongfully accused these days. And much much more that I dont feel like explaining. I was taught no matter how bad someone treats you, its never right to treat them just as bad back, because in all my experience, it never solved anything. Does torturing the people make then suddenly become good people? Nope. Does it get info? Yeah maybe sometimes it does. But is it worth it? Not in my opinion.

You know we all have these wonderful brains that generate all these awesome ideas, so why arent we trying some more humane things with these terrorists before we resort to treating them like scum? Lets figure something out.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
My goodness, you just cant keep it civil, can you?


You're kidding me? I only have my obnoxious knob turned up to "medium" right now.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
You do realize this is a message board, right? And as such, it's not a place where I tend to proof read. Pretty sad that you need to keep going there though. Perhaps you can actually stay on subject? ANd really, do you think teachers are immune to typos?


Pretty sad that your grammar and punctuation are lacking. Guess you're a no-go at this station. But you're right, that's neither here nor there.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
It is nice to have that choice. You have done nothing to secure that freedom. SO no, I will not thank you.


Another example that homeschooling is the way to go. Haven't done anything? I'll keep that in mind next time I head to the AOR. Try taking that attitude down to the local VA hospital and see how far it gets you.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Living by a good moral code(which I will give you credit, the things you listed are just that) is not the same thing as being able to fight. If one were to truly live by the things you speak of, you would not be okay with this occupation. Period.


If the US was truly an occupation army, would we even be considering a pull out of troops? Would we even be training the Iraqi Army? Would be setting up a government and actually allowing everyone to vote?


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Actually, there is a VERY strict curriculum that I am forced to stick to. So in a way, yes, there are agents over my shoulder. But thats not even the point. Because of this "war", we no longer have habeus corpus. I can no longer teach my children about due process. I cannot teach them about the letter of the law. I spend every day teaching kids to be able to read between the lines and not fall for blanket statement such as "terrorist". Whats funny is, my BLC students get it. Kind of sad that you can't. This is a DIRECT result of the illegal actions of our military over the last 8 years.


Oh really? Funny, my nieces and nephews (who are of that age) have learned about habeus corpus, etc. And this is the backwoods of PA, too.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
Yes, Geneva is about POW's(among other things), in a TIME OF WAR, which this is not.


Check out this document from the Red Cross:

www.supportgenevaconventions.info...

Here's a little quote from the first page:

"Known as the Geneva Convention, this agreement became the foundation of modern international humanitarian law, which now encompasses four
conventions and two additional protocols. Collectively, they represent the world community’s modern efforts to protect people in times of armed conflict
Page 2:

The Geneva Conventions apply in all cases of declared war, or in any other armed conflict between nations. They also apply in cases where a nation is partially or totally occupied by soldiers of another nation, even when there is no armed resistance to that occupation.

So, the GC should be in effect (or is it affect; I can never remember).



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by jerico65







1) I'm done with your personal insult crap. Don't do it again.

2)I love that all military personel automatically jump to "say that to a vet, see what happens". As if the opinion of vets is the end al be all. Of course they are going to be on the side of the military. This is like me saying "Why don't you go ask a bunch of pacifists and see how far it gets you". Pointless and irerelevant.

3)Let's see, it's already been announced that there will be a permanent military base in Iraq(in fact, I beleive its already built). You can lower the numbers, but no one is actually talking about the removal of all troops. Do some research.

4)So, you neice and nephew have learned about habeus corpus. Have they learned that, thanks to this campaign and it's architects, it no longer applies?

5)Go read your material again.
"The Geneva Conventions apply in all cases of declared war, or in any other armed conflict between nations. They also apply in cases where a nation is partially or totally occupied by soldiers of another nation, even when there is no armed resistance to that occupation."

None of these things apply right now. Nice try though.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
1) I'm done with your personal insult crap. Don't do it again.


Whatever. Harden up.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
2)I love that all military personel automatically jump to "say that to a vet, see what happens". As if the opinion of vets is the end al be all. Of course they are going to be on the side of the military. This is like me saying "Why don't you go ask a bunch of pacifists and see how far it gets you". Pointless and irerelevant.


Punching pacifists isn't worth the time. Like punching an emo kid. And when it comes to the military, the opinion of a vet does hold a bit more water than someone that didn't serve. You know, since we've been there and done that.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
3)Let's see, it's already been announced that there will be a permanent military base in Iraq(in fact, I beleive its already built). You can lower the numbers, but no one is actually talking about the removal of all troops. Do some research.


Hey, Obama promised!!! And I don't have to do research, I see it when friends are going out the door. Numbers will be reduced, but they aren't going to be permanently leaving, regardless of what Obama promised.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
4)So, you neice and nephew have learned about habeus corpus. Have they learned that, thanks to this campaign and it's architects, it no longer applies?


Well, since they aren't Gitmo prisoners, they don't have to worry about that, do they?? And I haven't heard of anyone being picked up by the cops in my town and held unlawfully.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
5)Go read your material again.
"The Geneva Conventions apply in all cases of declared war, or in any other armed conflict between nations. They also apply in cases where a nation is partially or totally occupied by soldiers of another nation, even when there is no armed resistance to that occupation."

None of these things apply right now. Nice try though.


You lost me. It said in cases of declared war, or in any other armed conflict. Guess that covers Iraq, doesn't it, since you did call this an "extended military conflict".

Swing and a miss.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by jerico65


Whatever. Harden up.



Punching pacifists isn't worth the time. Like punching an emo kid. And when it comes to the military, the opinion of a vet does hold a bit more water than someone that didn't serve. You know, since we've been there and done that.

]

Hey, Obama promised!!! And I don't have to do research, I see it when friends are going out the door. Numbers will be reduced, but they aren't going to be permanently leaving, regardless of what Obama promised.



Well, since they aren't Gitmo prisoners, they don't have to worry about that, do they?? And I haven't heard of anyone being picked up by the cops in my town and held unlawfully.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
5)Go read your material again.
"The Geneva Conventions apply in all cases of declared war, or in any other armed conflict between nations. They also apply in cases where a nation is partially or totally occupied by soldiers of another nation, even when there is no armed resistance to that occupation."

None of these things apply right now. Nice try though.


You lost me. It said in cases of declared war, or in any other armed conflict. Guess that covers Iraq, doesn't it, since you did call this an "extended military conflict".

Swing and a miss.



1)It's not a matter of hardening up. Its a matter of being mature enough to debate a topic without it degenerating to insults. Harden up? Try growing up.

2)Its funny that you jump right to punching a pacifist. Good insight into your psyche. ANd very expected. I'm sorry, but a vets opinion is no different than anyone elses...you know what they say: Opinions are like a-holes; everyones got em and they all stink. Serving in the military, while admirable, does not make your point of view any more important than anyone else.

3)You just admitted I was right. Numbers will be reduced. The occupation will go on. Thanks.

4)K, this is where reading comprehension is key. Read your source again. "In times of declared war or armed conflict WITH A NATION. Are we fighting the government of Iraq? Are we fighting the government of Afghanistan? Get it yet(doubt it).

5)I HAVE heard of someone picked up in my home town and detained without representation. His name is Brandon Mayfield. He was a highly respected lawyer. You should read about him.

And he clears the bases with one swing.



posted on Jun, 12 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic It's not a matter of hardening up. Its a matter of being mature enough to debate a topic without it degenerating to insults. Harden up? Try growing up.


Dude, when will you learn that you just can't win when you're taking on Keyboard Kommandos (with Action Avatars!)

These pajamahadeen can be as big and bad as they like...as long as there's no call to follow through. Just ignore them and be glad they're out of government.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
1)It's not a matter of hardening up. Its a matter of being mature enough to debate a topic without it degenerating to insults. Harden up? Try growing up.


Hey, I have no problem with the topic. And I really don't think I've insulted you. If you think I have, well, that's something you need to dig deep inside and figure out. Not my problem you aren't as hard as you wish you were.



Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
2)Its funny that you jump right to punching a pacifist. Good insight into your psyche. ANd very expected. I'm sorry, but a vets opinion is no different than anyone elses...you know what they say: Opinions are like a-holes; everyones got em and they all stink. Serving in the military, while admirable, does not make your point of view any more important than anyone else.


And once again, ATS posters show they have no sense of humor.

And did you actually read my posts, or were you just waiting for your turn to write? I had said when it comes to a military matter, a vets opinion carries more weight. Of course, liberals and pacifists seem to think otherwise.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
3)You just admitted I was right. Numbers will be reduced. The occupation will go on. Thanks.


Uh, yeah. I kinda said the same thing. I was busting on Obama and his supporters who were saying that he was going to withdraw from Iraq.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
4)K, this is where reading comprehension is key. Read your source again. "In times of declared war or armed conflict WITH A NATION. Are we fighting the government of Iraq? Are we fighting the government of Afghanistan? Get it yet(doubt it).


Afghanistan? Ever heard of the Taliban? You know the guys that were the government of A-stan until 2001? We're still fighting them, so they should be covered under the GC. AQ, on the other hand, aren't, but if you stretch things, they could be under the Additional Protocol I, "armed conflicts in which people are fighting against colonial domination and alien occupation and against racist regimes in the exercise of their rights to self-determination."

Terrorist in Iraq, if they are supportive of the former government, could also be covered. Again, might be a stretch. If not, they could come under that Additional Protocol I deal, too. I think the US signed but did not ratify it.

Up to speed now?


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
5)I HAVE heard of someone picked up in my home town and detained without representation. His name is Brandon Mayfield. He was a highly respected lawyer. You should read about him.


Sucks to be Brandon Mayfield, that's for sure. Probably FBI got their panties in a bunch since he was the lawyer for that guy that was part of the Portland Seven.

But I don't see Joe Blow being rounded up off the street and taken to prison for no reason whatsoever.


Originally posted by cautiouslypessimistic
And he clears the bases with one swing.


No hardly, Gus.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Dude, when will you learn that you just can't win when you're taking on Keyboard Kommandos (with Action Avatars!)

These pajamahadeen can be as big and bad as they like...as long as there's no call to follow through. Just ignore them and be glad they're out of government.


Funny. What marital art will you be pretending that you're an expert in?

Well, yeah, that makes sense. Obama is in government and all is right with the world. Right??? Right?

Thought so. Hey, Mom is calling you.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 08:47 AM
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60 Minutes
March 22nd.

Barack Obama:



OBAMA: Now, do these folks deserve Miranda rights? Do they deserve to be treated like a shoplifter down the block? Of course not.


It would be nice if the media would stop their love fest of him for just a few minutes and reported on the facts of Barry.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Have you ever heard of indirect effects? You know... non-linear ones?

What the hell does that mean?
I will ask you again and see if you answer it.

So is Obama, the man who you voted for, all of a sudden deeply worried about their rights or did he purposefully lie or did he change his mind for political reasons since the video clearly show him stating that they don't deserve miranda rights.



When you are voting for someone, you realize what they will say different things at different times depending on the audience and if they are campaigning or not.

I voted for him, and everything he is doing RIGHT now is what I wanted.

So yes, I am very happy.



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Dude, when will you learn that you just can't win when you're taking on Keyboard Kommandos (with Action Avatars!)
These pajamahadeen can be as big and bad as they like...as long as there's no call to follow through. Just ignore them and be glad they're out of government.

Funny. What marital art will you be pretending that you're an expert in?
Well, yeah, that makes sense. Obama is in government and all is right with the world. Right??? Right? Thought so. Hey, Mom is calling you.


Hmmm...are you asking me to define my terms? Cuz our English is surprisingly good up here...you know, considering we're foreigners and all...

What I call a Keyboard Kommando (with Action Avatars!) is somebody who is just all manly and aggressive and testosterone-fueled as long as their martial art is the keyboard in front of them.

Pajamahadeen? I have that word on loan...it's the variety of Keyboard Kommando (with Action Avatars!) that never even bothers to get dressed before they do battle with the Godless Liberal. They generally live in their parent's basement.

And I'm sure you have a great reason to bring my mother into this...aside from the fact that she had her fill of the Right Wing in Nazi Germany. Nice call.

[edit on 13-6-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]



posted on Jun, 13 2009 @ 12:23 PM
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Did the OP find this from Michelle Malkin's blog??

Because, what she attributed to General Petraeus (you know, guy with all the medals?? Who was loved by the Right Wing??) has been denied by said General.


FastFwd to 2:40~



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