Shooting in Washington DC (Updated), page 4

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reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:44 PM by NovusOrdoMundi

Originally posted by redhead57
edit to add: Now this hatemongering idiot will go down as some sort of hero among the other hate filled supremacist groups, as an old man he was pretty much washed up, nice move.

I don't agree with their "cause" or their beliefs, but I do support their right to have those beliefs, as I support your right to your beliefs.

But how does your belief that he is a "hatemongering idiot" that is now a hero to "hate filled supremacist groups" stop the cycle of violence? How does putting labels on people, insulting people, and banishing people to isolation from society for their beliefs - no matter how hate filled they are - help end the clash of beliefs that sparks these sort of events? How are you any better by hating them for their beliefs than they are by hating you for yours?

[edit on 6/10/09 by NovusOrdoMundi]

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:45 PM by seagull

reply to post by redhead57

This really isn't anything new, ya know. This sort of hate of the "other" has been around, well, just about forever...

Nightriders in the American South after the Civil War. Anti Jewish pogroms all over Europe for centuries. Murders of homosexuals and others deemed different, or dangerous... It's just in this age of virtually instant communication, it's going to get wide spread dissemination.

I'm not trying to downplay this, but this really isn't anything new. All we can do is keep trying to educate, shine the light of truth on these haters. We can't keep people from hating, but we can try...

right wing, left wing, amazing how nthe end result of zealotry all looks the same when all's said and done. The death left behind looks the same.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:47 PM by seagull

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

Yes they have the right to say it, we who oppose them have the right to describe them for what they are...

Misguided, hatred driven zealots; who wouldn't know the "truth" if it rose up and bonked them in the head.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:49 PM by NovusOrdoMundi

reply to post by seagull

I have no issue with describing them for what they are or hating them for what they believe. My point is, people who want the hate to end often put labels on them and hate them for their beliefs. That's hypocrisy and doesn't end the cycle of violence. Either support everyone's right to their own beliefs or support no one's right to their own beliefs. You can't pick and choose.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:52 PM by ravenshadow13

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

OR, you could just not support anyone who resorts to violence. But you can support everyone's right to have their own opinion.

That's what I do. I don't care what people think or say, as long as they don't cause harm to others.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:52 PM by Adrifter

pretty much all the news networks are covering this. I guess no other news is happening. A 88 year old nutcase busts into a museum firing a shotgun, gets shot. Why is this such a big story? That eclipses the economy, or foreign relations? Its a circus. Making these witness celebs.. Wow.. Nah no agenda here.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:56 PM by sweatmonicaIdo

You conspiracy theorists really are a million bucks. A white supremacist, an anti-government conspiracy theorist, walks into a place like the Holocaust Museum and opens fire with the intent to kill. This is also a guy who tried to take hostages at the Federal Reserve. Yet all you tin foil hatters can harp about is how you think the media will use this to forward an "agenda" that does not exist?

I'm not going to lie, I have some very strong opinions on the Jewish influence here in America. But I do not look at them as ten-foot-tall giants. Nor do I wish them any harm. And I mot certainly do not believe in absurd lies, such as that communists have taken over our government!

As far as I'm concerned, you can have your beliefs and your opinions and you can go to Hell. Straight to Hell. And you can join Adolf Hitler, George Lincoln Rockwell, Timothy McVeigh, Jorg Haider, and all the rest of your heroes and reminisce on all the violence and hatred you've brought upon us.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:57 PM by Hazelnut

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

Yes they have the right to say it, we who oppose them have the right to describe them for what they are...

Misguided, hatred driven zealots; who wouldn't know the "truth" if it rose up and bonked them in the head.

Which truth are you speaking about? I'm curious to know whether I'm a "hatred driven zealot(s

who wouldn't know the "truth" if it rose up and bonked" me on the head? If you could give some guidance on how to spot one I would appreciate it. It wouldn't do at all for me to be classified in such a way.

The shooting at the museum was idiotic - no matter who did it. I'm glad the security guard was awake and aware. I'm especially sorry to see people have taken the incident personally and view it as an opportunity to jump on some self-serving bandwagon.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:57 PM by harrytuttle

Well, I guess that was the revolution everyone's been waiting for. And it went pretty much as expected.

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:58 PM by greeneyedleo

The victim (security guard) has now died

from what I just heard.

[edit on 6/10/2009 by greeneyedleo]

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:59 PM by Adrifter

reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo

nah, I don't think its a conspiracy, I just think the media is stupid enough to pay attention to stupid actions like this, and sensationalizing it for hours and hours. making witnesses into celebs, and making everyone else think who turns the news on that their IS NOT ANY OTHER NEWS HAPPENING...

[edit on 10-6-2009 by Adrifter]

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:59 PM by NovusOrdoMundi

reply to post by ravenshadow13

I'm not supporting anyone who resorts to violence. I am simply talking about beliefs, not violent actions based on those beliefs.

A bunch of kids who got a little too caught up in Hitler, sitting at their computers posting a bunch of racist drivel on an Internet forum is nothing to get worked up over or censor the Internet over, and it is hardly a sign of future violence.

There are many racists in the world. The vast majority of them don't go on shooting rampages or blow things up. The furthest their beliefs go is the hatred inside their head. Just because I do not agree with their beliefs does not mean I am going to support the suppression or censorship of those beliefs.

But my main overall point here is don't preach about wanting the hatred to end only to turn around and hate these people for their beliefs. That only spreads more hatred. Hating them for their beliefs doesn't make you any better than them. It only makes you a hypocrite and obviously not fully committed to your own cause.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:02 PM by asala

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
The victim (security guard) has now died from what I just heard.

[edit on 6/10/2009 by greeneyedleo]

My thoughts go out to his family,

[edit on 10-6-2009 by asala]

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:02 PM by sweatmonicaIdo

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

I hope they are never censored. In fact, I hope their views are given plenty of air time, their books published, and their website advertised.

Only by doing so can we see people for who they really are. And we will find the conspiracy theorists, racists and apocalypticists among us and we will tell them that we respect their opinion, but they can go shove it.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:03 PM by Hazelnut

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
The victim (security guard) has now died from what I just heard.

[edit on 6/10/2009 by greeneyedleo]

May he or she rest in peace. My condolences to the family. How very sad to die protecting a museum commemorating extermination.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:03 PM by seagull

reply to post by Hazelnut

Are you?

Do you hate someone for the mere fact they exist? Do you hate someone because they worship differently then you do? ...or they have skin a different shade from yours? How about sexual preferences?

If you do, and are willing to kill in order to support your beliefs than yes you are. If you don't, then you aren't. It really is very simple...

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:05 PM by ravenshadow13

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

But just because you hate this guy doesn't mean you hate him for his beliefs. I hate him because he committed an awful crime. You make it sound like anyone who hates this man is awful because they don't value his right to believe what he wants.

I'm not sure what argument you're really trying to get across. I think I'm missing it.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:06 PM by NettleTea

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:08 PM by Hazelnut

reply to post by seagull

Thank you for your explanation. It gets more difficult all the time just to keep up with the latest rhetoric and hatemongering speech. I'm really into words and like to use the most appropriate ones when I can. So, thanks again for clearing that up.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:12 PM by seagull

reply to post by Hazelnut

Glad I could help.

I was kind of afraid you might take offense to the way I phrased that...glad to see otherwise.

I despise zealots of any stripe, but some, like this one, get my goat a little bit more. I've always believed that the Jews have got a raw deal for a long, long time, and I endevour to make that clear at every chance.