Taking Justice into your own hands, page 1

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Topic started on 10-6-2009 @ 12:22 PM by Hazelnut

I read recently on another post that taking justice into your own hands is wrong. Is it really? Why is taking matters in your own hands wrong?

E-Vigiliantes Take Justice Into Their Own Hands

8 Awesome Cases of Internet Vigilantism

Family Members of a Murder Victim Take Justice into Their Own Hands

With all of these links as a basis for the theory that taking justice into your own hands is wrong, lets see where the discussion takes us.

By the way, I'm a firm believer in standing up for myself. I don't ask for help nor do I expect it. The justice system is flawed. IMHO there is no justice in the law. If you have a lot of money, you get justice. If you have no money, NO JUSTICE. Again, this is my personal opinion based on experience.

Lets hear what your personal experiences have led you to believe. And explain why you believe that taking justice into your own hands is wrong or not.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 12:45 PM by DrumsRfun

I am not sure if I should be telling this or not but I felt it was relevant to your thread.
I can tell you first hand that its wrong to get caught.
In my youth I had an *altercation* with a rapist and I ended up going to jail for it.
Do I regret it...heck no.The guy was never convicted by the courts so I did the conviction and sentencing myself.
Would do it ten more times if I had to.
My justice far outweighed what any court would do and i think our justice system is a complete joke so it was easy to justify to myself.
In the end justice was served.
He wasn't the first and won't be the last.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 12:48 PM by joeofthemountain

reply to post by Hazelnut

I think you've stated things about right. What is a "vigilante"? Literally, it means to "watch after" someone or thing. It is a "watchman".

What is a "Law Enforcement Officer"? A person hired by the courts to impose their will on the population. Mercy, service, discretion have nothing to do with Law EnFORCEment -- force has everything to do with Law EnFORCEment.

We need to collectively remember that the people hired the first watchmen to watch on their behalf. At some point, this transmogrified into "peace officers" and then "police officers" and now the aforementioned "Law EnFORCEment Officers".

We've come a long way from Sheriff Andy Taylor - and it has not been good for us.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 12:52 PM by getreadyalready

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
I am not sure if I should be telling this or not but I felt it was relevant to your thread.
I can tell you first hand that its wrong to get caught.
In my youth I had an *altercation* with a rapist and I ended up going to jail for it.
Do I regret it...heck no.The guy was never convicted by the courts so I did the conviction and sentencing myself.
Would do it ten more times if I had to.
My justice far outweighed what any court would do and i think our justice system is a complete joke so it was easy to justify to myself.
In the end justice was served.
He wasn't the first and won't be the last.

Good for you, and yes getting caught was a mistake!

Revenge is best served cold. Calculated. Definitively. Sorry, you had to go to jail for doing what was right; you will be more patient and careful next time I hope.

Vigilanteism is not bad, providing the proof exists that you are getting the correct person. I think the other thread turned out the mob beat up the wrong man. He was wanted for questioning, but was not a suspect, and turned out to not be involved!

Vigilante justice is much more fair, swift, and economical than state-sanctioned justice. It also serves as a far better deterrent than laws or statutes! I have faced the "Father's Speech" before dating several girls, and there were a couple that I truly believed. Those couple of girls got the utmost respect! (OK, they all got respect, but I went the extra mile to not have a 'misunderstanding' with the scarier ones!)

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 12:54 PM by DrumsRfun

Actually I have another incident as well.
I was sticking up for a girl who was being beaten by her boyfriend and I threatened the guy.
He waited a few days and then rushed thru my front door on a Sunday afternoon almost in a shock and awe fashion.
I have a baseball bat by my front door as house insurance and he walked right by it.
To make a long story short...the cops told me he was under investigation for hitting his girlfriend and I was at risk of going to jail.
They worded what happened and how it happened for me so that I avoided charges.They told me how things REALLY went down wink wink.
They put by baseball bat back in the corner and shook my hand and left.

Sometimes even cops appreciate some good ole fashioned justice too.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 01:00 PM by getreadyalready

reply to post by DrumsRfun

That is how things are supposed to work! When father's, brother's, and friends stick up for their family, things tend to work out for the better. I have even seen my mother fight! She chased another mother all the way back to her house once!

In the case you mentioned, I would have held them at bay (with bat or probably a gun), called 911 and exclaimed that someone was trying to get in and I was very scared, hurry! And then dropped the phone and commenced to dispensing justice in "self-defense!" The person who calls the cops, and is frightened is the one that gets the benefit of the doubt, especially if you were in your own home!

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 01:16 PM by DrumsRfun

reply to post by getreadyalready

My door was unlocked and it happened VERY fast.
It was a total shock.1 minute I am getting ready for a nap and then next I hear him walk in shouting like an idiot.
The cops showed up after the ambulance.After it was over I was trying to calm the girl down and she had a seizure (what a long day)
I was never taught to use a pen and almost lost a finger when she bit down again.I still have that scar LOL
I called the ambulance and they saw all the blood and thought I did something to her.
Thats the details of how it went down.
One minute I am feeling groggy and ready for a nap and the next thing I know I was in a fight.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 01:22 PM by Hazelnut

Originally posted by joeofthemountain
reply to post by Hazelnut

I think you've stated things about right. What is a "vigilante"? Literally, it means to "watch after" someone or thing. It is a "watchman".

What is a "Law Enforcement Officer"? A person hired by the courts to impose their will on the population. Mercy, service, discretion have nothing to do with Law EnFORCEment -- force has everything to do with Law EnFORCEment.

We need to collectively remember that the people hired the first watchmen to watch on their behalf. At some point, this transmogrified into "peace officers" and then "police officers" and now the aforementioned "Law EnFORCEment Officers".

We've come a long way from Sheriff Andy Taylor - and it has not been good for us.

Giving away our powers of self-defense was not good for us or the country. Vigilantism will be the power of law and justice in the case of anarchy. Or as some people like to phrase it, WSHTF.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 01:59 PM by KyoZero

It's half and half for me.

On one hand the justice system doesn't seem to fail us from to time

On the other hand vigilanteism often goes awry and people who don't deserve it get beaten or killed

Tough question I admit and alot to think about

-Kyo

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:11 PM by Viking04

Some clarification of the thread may be helpful. When someone (or a group of someones) comes at you with bad intent, and your friendly local LEO isn't standing right their to take care of the situation, you have a choice, fight or take what is coming. Choosing to fight is not vigilantism, but self-defense, even if the idiot brought a knife to a gun fight.

Vigilantism is taking it to someone for a past deed, and done in cold blood.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:22 PM by Hazelnut

reply to post by Viking04

The distinction you made takes us straight into the gray area. Instinctive response is predicated upon the situation at hand. Dependant upon the situation in question, previous conditioning will dictate the response. Some people feel that vigilantism is revenge. It could be true, I don't know.

Here is an example I'm thinking of for the case of taking justice into your own hands. When say, California goes bankrupt and loses a significant number of first responders including police and fire, typical emergency 911 calls will be placed on a waiting list. During the waiting time, people may begin to understand that safety and justice is definitely in their own hands. How will people respond in that type of situation?

When law enforcement is too far away to help, what do you do? When the law does not mete out proper justice, what do you do? When someone has raped and beaten your 12 yo daughter, do you stand by and wait for someone who could care less to make justice happen?

Maybe taking justice into your own hands is wrong for some things and right for others.

I'm just trying to get a discussion going because there may be a time when vigilantism is the ONLY option left. Hopefully not, but just in case is better than sh** out of luck. JIC > SOL

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:27 PM by andy1033

The way i look at this is society deserves the sum it has. You may feel like doing something, but society is run by the mob and the mob only like criminals. The police are not there to protect you, they are there for criminals to use to murder anyone they want.

This thread is a waste as society for me deserves all the scum it has. You notice the people who say that society is bad and all, are the ones often making it bad. i.e government people and police who think they can murder anyone they want.

That does not mean you cannot hate as you can, but just let teh society ahve the trash, like the serial killers who join the police so they can murder teh people they went to school with.

Society really is that bad.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:43 PM by fmcanarney

Events which happen in a rapid, spontaneous, unplanned time sequence where the response is instinctual and comes from the self/other protective mode are not vigilantism. They are self defense survival events.

Vigilantism on the other hand identifies a predator, and calculates, plans, premeditates on how to punish. This is from a revenge, retaliation, retribution view point.

Charles Bronson, in the movie series Death Wish, incorporated vigilantism as his primary operational strategy, and hid it often under visiting places where he was likely to encounter persons needing help to learn compassion for others. This allowed him to claim "self defense" as his arguement for what happened.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:50 PM by getreadyalready

Originally posted by fmcanarney
Events which happen in a rapid, spontaneous, unplanned time sequence where the response is instinctual and comes from the self/other protective mode are not vigilantism. They are self defense survival events.

Vigilantism on the other hand identifies a predator, and calculates, plans, premeditates on how to punish. This is from a revenge, retaliation, retribution view point.

Charles Bronson, in the movie series Death Wish, incorporated vigilantism as his primary operational strategy, and hid it often under visiting places where he was likely to encounter persons needing help to learn compassion for others. This allowed him to claim "self defense" as his arguement for what happened.

Yes, most of my favorite movies. The Punisher, Man on Fire, Payback.

Most people think of vigilanteism as cold, calculated revenge, which is fine. But I think it also encompasses Citizen-Cops. People out on the street preventing crime, or investigating it after the fact. Private Investigators, Bail Bondsmen, Batman, Spiderman, etc. It is technically not self-defense if you went looking for it. It is more like entrapment, but as long as it works, who cares!

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 04:34 PM by Viking04

reply to post by Hazelnut

Hazelnut:

I happen to live in a rural area. LEO response is slow at best. Due to that situation, I face the facts that I am the sole responder to any tactical situation that may arise.

You posit the situation of my daughter/wife being attacked. Rightly or not, I consider members of my family extensions of myself, and would 'defend' accordingly, and within the law.

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