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Peru declares curfew after bloody clashes in Amazon jungle

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posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:12 AM
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Peru declares curfew after bloody clashes in Amazon jungle


www.guardian.co.uk

Peru has declared a curfew in its Amazon jungle after dozens died and hundreds were injured in bloody clashes between security forces and indigenous tribes protesting against oil and mining projects.

The situation remained volatile last nighttonight as army and police units used helicopters and armoured vehicles to try to regain control of remote northern areas which were the scene of the country's worst violence in a decade.

Authorities said at least 23 police were killed, some with spears, and that two were missing. Indigenous leaders said more than 40 Indians, including three childre
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:12 AM
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Once we killed them for gold, now we kill them for oil and their land. Nothing changed.



violettespage.com...

The Spaniards "thought nothing of knifing Indians... and cutting slices off them to test the sharpness of their blades." "Two of these so-called Christians met two Indian boys one day, each carrying a parrot; they took the parrots and for fun beheaded the boys."

In Cibao on Haiti, Columbus and his men ordered all Indians to collect a certain quantity of gold every three months. When they turned over the gold, they were given copper tokens to hang around their necks. Any Indian found without a token had their hands cut off and bled to death. The Indians' task was next to impossible. So they fled, and many were hunted down and killed.


www.gutenberg.org...

Which the _Spaniards_ no sooner perceived, but they, mounted on generous Steeds, well weapon'd with Lances and Swords, begin to exercise their bloody Butcheries and Strategems, and overrunning their Cities and Towns, spar'd no Age, or Sex, nay not so much as Women with Child, but ripping up their Bellies, tore them alive in pieces. They laid Wagers among themselves, who should with a Sword at one blow cut, or divide a Man in two; or which of them should decollate or behead a Man, with the greatest dexterity; nay farther, which should sheath his Sword in the Bowels of a Man with the quickest dispatch and expedition.








[edit on 10-6-2009 by pai mei]



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:25 AM
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yeah right, they are slitting the throats off people who happen to be whiter than them, stop me if I don't indulge in liberal hand wringing



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:28 AM
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White people want their land. They destroy their tribal lifestyle.

How would it be if some Chinese dudes come to your town and say "we will build a mine here, and you all will be Communists from now on. We give you the privilege to work in the mine ! If you don't want that you can go wherever you want. Try some slave jobs in the city. Live among mountains of garbage in some plastic tents. We don't care. But you cannot say you are not free ! "

Perhaps you will chose to "peacefully protest" ?


You have church groups, relief agencies, military operators, social scientists, archeologist's, etc...all dying to get their hands on people like this. Of course, they would get killed trying to do it from the ground, these tribes will out and out kill you as an outsider. The west shows up with radios and food, they look at it hastly and toss it aside, tell you to leave. One kid starts messing with the radio and picks up some music, people in the tribe start to get intrigued. They open up the food, and have a taste, its good and safe. A few weeks later, a landrover shows up with more things, they communicate in archaic means, give them t-shirts with Nike logos and shoes to boot. These tribes are all now big pimpin.
They move into the nearest big city, get shaved up, loose the war paint and get a job cleaning urinals at the local Hilton hotel. Before you know it, the tribe has lost contact with each other and the people individually begin to enter into a deep cycle of poverty, they are unbelievably sad. They get a group of people back together, by shear luck, they take a bus to the border of the inhabited areas, they go and take rental cars as far as they can go. They walk back into their lands, its nothing but smoke, machinery, cane fields and a totally lost culture. They go back, live off the rest of their lives a miserable existence. In Brazil, we talked to Army guys that were born into these kinds of situations, they can talk about this stuff at great length. It so sad to listen to, they were living a fairly decent life. They had death and other issues, but at the very least they were happy, until man showed up and tempted them. The story gets repeated over and over again so many times people have lost count. When I would train in areas like this in S.A., we would run into friendly tribes, I always told them to just hold onto what you have and ignore us. We cannot do anything better for you than you can for yourself. We are just passing through. The only time I'd do anything for them was to help someone who was injured, I had medicine so I gave it to them. Never stayed to see if the antibiotics worked out, but thats about the limit of my engagements. They need to be left alone, its better in the jungle than in the city.







[edit on 10-6-2009 by pai mei]



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:34 AM
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President Alan García, who is facing pressure to fire his prime minister and other officials, accused indigenous tribes of waging "subversive aggression against democracy" and butchering police with barbaric methods.


Do these indigenous people have the right to vote? If so, is it made available to them or does the whole tribe have to walk for two days to the nearest city to vote in elections?

You, Alan García, see a "subversive aggression against democracy" and I see a "righteous declaration of indigenous peoples' sovereignty."

Didn't the UN recently say something about the rights of indigenous peoples? I bet that whatever it said it didn't have the caveat "...unless we find valuable resources on the land."

Jon

In-The-Jungle Level

(Quiet-------------------Rumble)
You are here....^

Your Jungle level:
Curfew In-The-Jungle

[edit on 6.10.2009 by Voxel]



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by pai mei
White people want their land. They destroy their tribal lifestyle.


who says it is "their land", they had to arrive at some point



How would it be if some Chinese dudes come to your town and say "we will build a mine here, and you all will be Communists from now on. We give you the privilege to work in the mine ! If you don't want that you can go wherever you want. Try some slave jobs in the city. Live among mountains of garbage in some plastic tents. We don't care. But you cannot say you are not free ! "

Perhaps you will chose to "peacefully protest" ?


loads of non whites own property and businesses where I live, I havent slit their throats



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:39 AM
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Originally posted by Voxel
Do these indigenous people have the right to vote? If so, is it made available to them or does the whole tribe have to walk for two days to the nearest city to vote in elections?

You, Alan García, see a "subversive aggression against democracy" and I see a "righteous declaration of indigenous peoples' sovereignty."

Didn't the UN recently say something about the rights of indigenous peoples? I bet that whatever it said it didn't have the caveat "...unless we find valuable resources on the land."

Jon


who decides who is indiegnous, who sets the criteria, can you tell me who is indigenous in this world, how do you allocate the criteria, does race come into it?



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:42 AM
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What if you don't have "papers" to prove you own the land where you lived for thousands of years ?
The whites come and say we will build this and that, we will burn the jungle to make room for soy plantations, you are in our way. What do you do ?


www.survival-international.org...


The Indians have been protesting for two months against a series of laws which open up their communal rainforests to oil and gas companies. In the last few years more than 70% of the Amazon has been parcelled out to oil and gas companies for exploration, and a series of large-scale finds threaten to transform much of the Indians’ virgin forests. Similar schemes in neighbouring Ecuador have had a devastating effect on the rainforest, and led to chronic pollution and ill-health amongst the Indians who live there.


[edit on 10-6-2009 by pai mei]



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by blueorder
who decides who is indigenous, who sets the criteria, can you tell me who is indigenous in this world, how do you allocate the criteria, does race come into it?


What is this? The search for knowledge by ignorant denial of facts?

"I don't know what the definition of indigenous people is so... LA LA LA LA- I CAN'T HEAR YOU ...they don't really exist except in your crazy (communist | liberal | nazi | fascist | terrorist) ideology."

It is simple. Indigenous peoples are groups of people that are descendants of the first people to ever inhabit the land. They are direct descendants of the founder groups that first ever migrated to the places where they live today.

People like the Aborigines in a Australia are indigenous because before they arrived on that continent no human had ever been (well no one ever stayed at the very least.)

Jon

[edit on 6.10.2009 by Voxel]



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by pai mei
What if you don't have "papers" to prove you own the land where you lived for thousands of years ?
The whites come and say we will build this and that, we will burn the jungle to make room for soy plantations, you are in our way. What do you do ?


www.survival-international.org...


The Indians have been protesting for two months against a series of laws which open up their communal rainforests to oil and gas companies. In the last few years more than 70% of the Amazon has been parcelled out to oil and gas companies for exploration, and a series of large-scale finds threaten to transform much of the Indians’ virgin forests. Similar schemes in neighbouring Ecuador have had a devastating effect on the rainforest, and led to chronic pollution and ill-health amongst the Indians who live there.


[edit on 10-6-2009 by pai mei]


I am white, I have no "indigenous" rights to anything, my govt is not a "white govt" and is at the behest of non white multi national corporations, come join the club



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by blueorder
 


That is a very ignorant post!
Think before you speak....

The indigenous people have lived there for thousands of years, as pai mei already said, they have a rich non-destructive culture when you compare it to the western world. They have a far greater understanding of nature than we can ever imagine, in fact, we can learn from then. We have to preserve those very cultures, for they are living with nature instead of destroying and exploiting it.

It is their land, and nobody should intervene in their lifestyles.



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by blueorder
I am white, I have no "indigenous" rights to anything, my govt is not a "white govt" and is at the behest of non white multi national corporations, come join the club


Sorry to inform you but you are a slave. In our slave world we compete for food. Something free people living as a tribe never do. And not because they are forced to share.

More here :
"Advanced civilization" - the hunter gatherers



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by Voxel
What is this? The search for knowledge by ignorant denial of facts?


so by asking questions I am denying facts?



"I don't know what the definition of indigenous people is so... LA LA LA LA- I CAN'T HEAR YOU ...they don't really exist except in your crazy (communist | liberal | nazi | fascist | terrorist) ideology."



That is great, just try and put me in a nice neat box.



It is simple. Indigenous peoples are groups of people that are descendants of the first people to ever inhabit the land. They are direct descendants of the founder groups that first ever migrated to the places where they live today.



ok



People like the Aborigines in a Australia are indigenous because before they arrived on that continent no human had ever been (well no one ever stayed at the very least.)

Jon

[edit on 6.10.2009 by Voxel]


so whites would be "indigenous" in Europe?



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by pai mei
Sorry to inform you but you are a slave. In our slave world we compete for food. Something free people living as a tribe never do. And not because they are forced to share.

More here :
"Advanced civilization" - the hunter gatherers



I am not competing for food, so that analogy is not true



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by blueorder
I am white, I have no "indigenous" rights to anything, my govt is not a "white govt" and is at the behest of non white multi national corporations, come join the club


Had I been alive in the time when the Romans (who weren't exactly white) started conquering the indigenous people's of the British Isles known as Celts (who were very very white), I would have happily supported the Celtic defiance against outside control of their land and peoples.

The sovereign rights of indigenous peoples has absolutely nothing to do with white/non-white. Indigenous white populations simply lost their struggles against invading populations much earlier in human history.

Jon



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by Voxel

You, Alan García, see a "subversive aggression against democracy" and I see a "righteous declaration of indigenous peoples' sovereignty."


Here here Voxel! Star for you.

I find it nefariously horrible that these native people are being painted as the bad guys. In all truth they have more stake in their land and tribal areas than anyone in the cities.

I would rather the Tribals won, their way of life is not tainted by democracy!



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by blueorder
so whites would be "indigenous" in Europe?


Yes, certain tribes of whites were indigenous to certain parts (mostly the most northern) of Europe. Except in the north, most Europeans descend today from peoples of the middle east that spread west and north into europe in successive waves of migration.

In fact, genetic testing is showing that most, in not all, of the kings of europe were descendants from an invasive group of people that originated in the region along the north, north eastern coast of the Black Sea - what is today Russia and Georgia.

Most of European history (constant war, genocide, and oppression with short periods of normalcy) is the result of various indigenous tribes attempting to assert control over local politics and economics to varying degrees of success.

Can we blame other peoples for deciding they do not want to be a party to that kind of "progress?"

Jon



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 06:26 AM
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Originally posted by blueorder

I am not competing for food, so that analogy is not true


We are worse than that, we are competing for work.



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 06:32 AM
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Originally posted by VoxelHad I been alive in the time when the Romans (who weren't exactly white) started conquering the indigenous people's of the British Isles known as Celts (who were very very white), I would have happily supported the Celtic defiance against outside control of their land and peoples.


The Romans were white, just rather more tanned


I'm sure a lot of these "Indigenous" tribes are not pure race in any event, with some mixing in history




The sovereign rights of indigenous peoples has absolutely nothing to do with white/non-white.


clearly it does, are you saying the non white so called indigenous people would accept white people into their "tribe"?



Indigenous white populations simply lost their struggles against invading populations much earlier in human history.
Jon



Not so, it was just white on white action, to use porn speak- whites are indigenous to Europe, there can be no other conclusion



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by Voxel
Yes, certain tribes of whites were indigenous to certain parts (mostly the most northern) of Europe. Except in the north, most Europeans descend today from peoples of the middle east that spread west and north into europe in successive waves of migration.


Europe is an indigenous "white" area- caucasian if you will




In fact, genetic testing is showing that most, in not all, of the kings of europe were descendants from an invasive group of people that originated in the region along the north, north eastern coast of the Black Sea - what is today Russia and Georgia.


like I said, white/caucasian is indiegnous to Europe- obviously it is a broad family, welcome to the land of man




Most of European history (constant war, genocide, and oppression with short periods of normalcy) is the result of various indigenous tribes attempting to assert control over local politics and economics to varying degrees of success.


Same as it is all over the world- does not make it any less "indigenous"





Can we blame other peoples for deciding they do not want to be a party to that kind of "progress?"
Jon


you can sign up to racist ideology which equates tribal war and conflict with whites, I do not- it is the human condition, from Africa to Asia

I do not sign up to your agenda



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