Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety

Originally posted by heyo
Not to stick up for people that are religous or anything, cause they're so obviously below most in this thread, but it it seems to me that with the larger amount of information available, there are a lot of new monkeys that are coming in and wait....no one's getting sprayed with water.

Like, we no longer have to face our "purification" lol.
Just my two monkey cents.

Yes, but some still fear the beating.

what sort of beating do you mean?
intellectual? physical? by the "purposefully vague" stick?

Monkeys are fast and can leap great distances, not only must the fence and other tall objects be placed very far away from stairs, but the stairs must be created so high that they cannot reach the top with a single leap from solid ground/with any monkey formed formation/platform or having the banana getting dislodged with any physically thrown object (which includes live monkeys and/or dead monkeys and their body parts)

The stairs should be electronically rigged to trigger a cold shower onto the whole group when any part of it is touched at the beginning of the experiment. (human observers get tired and have slow reactions.... )

There will always be a better monkey, smarter/stronger/faster etc. Once the cold shower punishment is removed, having the other monkeys "enforce" the "traditions" onto the new ones is not going to be enough. (don't underestimate monkeys unless you have them drugged... )

The banana will be taken, it is not a question of if but when. (blame it on the rebellious, determined, thick skinned, individualistic characteristics of some monkeys)....

Here comes the interesting part, what happens afterward?

Will the mob attack that monkey and take the banana (quite likely), or attack that monkey, leaving the banana alone while viewing it as taboo (bad banana tradition/religion... ).

Will they let that monkey have the banana seeing it as their hero/savior or would they react in some other way?

Will the mob stop attacking the new monkeys being introduced later on and learn to share or will they continue to attack the new ones and forming a system where only the strongest monkey can have the banana?

So many possible scenarios.

[edit on 11-6-2009 by ixiy]

Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to respond to this post. I think this video conveys a strong message, most of us can see the point and how this applies to alot of situations we see on a daily basis. Too many people blindly follow the crowd instead of making an informed decision for themselves....

So through this video, you're telling me that humans, or "sheep" as some people would call us, do not have the ability to comprehend logic? or better yet... you're saying that when placed into a situation similar to this, humans would not have the ability to weigh the negatives and positives of taking care of themselves in time of need?

See there's a reason this video is an animation and not an actual experiment... because the author of this video knows that its not possible to attain similar results using real people. Why? if you have to ask that question then maybe you should go back to school, or re think your life or something...

I don't know whats more disturbing... the fact that we're comparing ourselves to a group of monkeys, or the fact that 56 people have watched this video, and decided "you know what? you're right! all humans are stupid and illogical".

haha who knows... maybe they're just making that decision based on how they would react being placed into a situation with similar circumstances

[edit on 11-6-2009 by Anomen]

Originally posted by Guidance.Is.Internal
Anybody ever notice how people around here post a story/video about primate behavior, draw parallels to human behavior, put on their pseudo-intellectual glasses and say "look how simple-minded and easily coerced people are" ?

The monkeys are just being social animals acting in what they perceive to be their own best interest. Big deal .. and like someone else pointed out, we have the advantage of being able to communicate to each other why we're acting the way we are .. so .. there isn't even much of a parallel .. and this thread is kind of silly ..

Sadly having an evolved form of communication such as language does not imply that those with it always have the capacity to understand much beyond their own self contained world.

It is just as 'hip' to question everything and assign a secret nefarious agenda to the world, as it is to ignore everything and wallow in ignorance.

I think the video makes a perfectly valid point. That at our basic instinct level, we either follow the pack OR never question the 'authority' that controls us.

Thinkers outside of the box are often ostracized. It is far easier a situation to follow suit and if the result of not doing so is to be reprimanded then most people will simply follow. Why is not a question that has an answer.

The conditioning starts from childhood. Since kindergarten people are given masks - to wear for the rest of their lives, most do not realize it. "The false self" that keeps this machine going.

When confronted with the awesome power of civilization whose first representatives are parents, teachers, priests (and, later on, police officers, legislators and bosses) the child faces, psychologically, the same situation as its tribal ancestors, namely, conform to the dictates of civilization or die. The helplessness of childhood makes the threat of bodily harm or loss of love, which is used by the parents and others to enforce civilized morality and civilized education, a traumatic experience. The developing little person becomes afraid to express its own tribal nature. There is much fear that lies at the bottom of becoming a civilized adult.

When the child becomes aware of ideas and impulses that oppose the dictates of civilization, s/he experiences anxiety, which is the signal for danger. It is not the insights and urges themselves that the child fears, but rather the reaction to them on the part of those in charge. Since the child cannot escape from those who control its life, s/he runs away from dangerous thoughts and feelings. In other words, the child institutes repression of its primitive self. Tribal ideas are now isolated, cut off from awareness, and unable to properly influence the future course of events.

These ego-alien identifications, built up over the course of a lifetime, cohere and form a distinct, circumscribed personality, or false self, that represents and enforces the rules and regulations of civilization.

This false self is observable in the frozen facial expressions, stereotypic gestures, and unexamined behavioral patterns of the general public. This false self determines much of our everyday lives, so that we are seldom the origin of our actions. We lapse into the false self at the first sign of danger, under stress, or simply because it is the path of least resistance. In this unthinking mode of social role playing, we internally reproduce our own oppression

The importance of this self-respect as a prime motivator of human nature can hardly be overstated; it may enable an individual to defy civilization, even in the face of the hatred of the whole modern world. When an individual acquires fundamental self-respect, then s/he will be made a fool no longer, and all the blows of civilization are nothing but the battle scars of a proud warrior. Civilization is powerless against it, because a person who has re-claimed fundamental self-respect cares nothing about the laws and standards of civilization.

This self-respect leads to genuine self-love, the second and decisive step on the path to sanity, for self-love (and happiness in large measure) consists in becoming one's own ideal again, as in childhood. This self-love eventually overflows and becomes love for others and for external nature.

[edit on 11-6-2009 by pai mei]

I've been reading these boards for quite some time as an outsider and just recently joined. I know I've never posted here before, but I'm assuming that won't deplete any of the credence lent to my opinions. I will note however, that this is just that, my opinion.

After watching the monkey video, I was a little inspired. My perspective is that the monkeys themselves aren't to blame for their reaction. A higher power (take that as God, corporate evil, their mom, whatever you read into it) gave them the influence that they believed to be the end result of their actions. They were obviously "let down" by the fact that they were soaked with water at every attempt to get nourishment so they instead sacrificed their need for food in order to have the comfort of being dry.

Kind of similar to humans who see posters and videos in grade school that show what will happen to them if they choose to smoke yet they ignore this information and still start or continue smoking.

However, not everyone smokes. If I collectively place ten humans in a cage and offer all of them a cigarette, at least one of them is likely to refuse. In this scenario, there is likely to be at least one monkey who will refuse to accept the reality of the others and make his or her way to the top of the stairs to get the food, even while risking punishment for it. After all, humans have risked going to jail or even returning to jail, by stealing cigarettes (association of comfort versus risk by the way).

I won't question the science or lack thereof in this video, I found it very entertaining and thought-provoking. This is something that's missing quite often in the mass media (again, my opinion).

The reason I was moved most by this video though, it assumes you can make the logical connection of what the overall breadth of the situation aspires to represent. While there are plenty of people here who I'm sure are smart enough to comprehend the "overall message" of the video, there are still dozens more who couldn't or wouldn't "get it". Does that not make the video's point more powerful in thought to anyone other than just me?

I may not be an absolute genius, I have a high I.Q. but I'm by no means a "know-it-all", but is it possible that the very point of the video speaks to the people who couldn't perceive the point in the first place? I get it, you get it...what about those that don't get it?

Aren't we in fact alienating the ignorance of the masses who don't have the armament of intellect that can allow them to question the reality they are positioned to believe? Aren't we at some point raising our noses at the "sheeple" in favor of intellectual wisdom that doesn't allow them to reach our level of understanding? Yet we blame the government for "dumbing them down" when we don't take the realistic effort to "smarten them back up"...Instead we complain about the people who won't question authority or question government but who's taking the action to give them the tools of knowledge that they as the weaker subset of our species need so they can comprehend? I know I'm not...Maybe I should.

This website is entirely too amazing in scope for me to express how gratified I am that it exists. I've never found anything as interesting or thought-provoking on the web without using a credit card and a tissue...lol. I hope my comments spark some discussion, maybe a good hearty laugh or perhaps a great debate.

Whatever your belief, no matter the limitations or lack thereof, you're right.

Hyperrman,you are going in a great direction with your thoughtline,information is the key to manipulation ,and the speed that that information is spread out amongst humans is a variable that can be used like a dial to manipulate humans, by forcing them to make choices concerning an issue that may have already been resolved or that there may be new information about.

Say I am in Canada and there is a major political coup happening in a country that affects my country,say the American government also knows about the coup that is happening but they would benefit economicly if the coup suceeded.Now this is where it gets very ugly.

You see either Canada or the US could exert indirect influence .Canada could "nudge"the coup backwards or discourage it from happening but this depends on if and when they HAVE KNOWLEDGE THAT THE COUP IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING OR IN OTHER WORDS REAL TIME INFORMATION ON THE EVERCHANGING FACTS.

If the US has "real time"accurate information about what is currently happening within the ranks of the government in question then the US retains a tactical advantage over Canada IN THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO EXERT THEIR INDIRECT INFLUENCE IN ORDER TO "MAKE"THE COUP HAPPEN AND MAKE IT BE SUCESSFUL THEREBY GAINING AN ECONOMIC ADVANTAGE OVER CANADA THROUGH THE ACCUMULATION OF AND TACTICAL APPLICATION OF INFORMATION THAT IS DELIVERED IN "REAL TIME"

Canada wiill be caught in the "lagtime"it takes for them to recieve information THAT THE US HAS ALREADY HAD FOREKNOWLEDGE OF AND HAS USED TO SUBTELY INFLUENCE THE SITUATION OR CHANGED IT USING THEIR INDIRECT INFLUENCE,THIS MEANS THAT CANADA HAS BEEN MANIPULATED AND EVEN THE COUNTRY HAVING THE COUP IS MANIPULATED BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY THAT THE AMERICAN PEOLE THEMSELVES HAVE ALSO BEEN MANIPULATED----ALL WITH JUST INFORMATION AND THE SPEED WITH WHICH THEY AQUIRE THAT INFORMATION AND THE RESTRICTIONS THEY ARE ABLE TO PUT ON THE DISSEMENATION OF INFORMATION TO THE REST OF THE WORLD.

See NASA and their textbook manipulation of knowledge and the tactical release of mis-direction intended to slow others progress down .

Anyone who thinks that America is the Superpower they are because of only Military power is a fruit loop.Americans are information and time or rather "real time"manipulation pros.

I am not suggesting that America is in any way being dishonorable in their use of this strategy this is the world we live in,I am saying that its to bad so many people remain and will probably die ignorant of the realitys that are competing for existence during their lifetimes and the dont realize that THEY HAVE A VOTE IN EVER SINGLE ACTION THAT HAPPENS IN OUR WORLD ,THE ONLY WAY THEIR VOTE IS TRANSFERRED IS IF THEY SURRENDER IT AND BECOME SLAVES BY ENDORSING "REPRESENTATIVES OF THE PEOPLE" OR IF THEY DIE.

Warning:Mature Material?

How about this for another Idea?

Put a lot more monkeys into the cage, and watch the monkeys form different groups. The groups are conditioned far longer with the treatment over a few generations (adding new monkeys with the cold shower trigger still on) so that their traditions/fears/dogmas/religions become embedded.

The stronger groups claim territory abound the stairs, while the weaker ones claim the areas near the back.

Next turn off the cold showers and put a lot more new monkeys into the pan, and watch how these new monkeys are punished or restrain within and on the borders of these territories, and then watch the groups fight, kill or convert the new monkeys and other monkey from different groups into their groups in this chaos.

Finally remove the stairs and the banana before any monkey can reach it. (holy monkey land where the staircase once stood?)

Realistic enough?

It is hard to imagine the damage done to us by conditioning.

Some experiments maybe best left undone, sometimes experiments done differently, with more noble intentions can result in a similar fashion to this.

What if controllers are still actively using unseen methods to manipulating the behaviors of the subjects to achieve their agenda?

Will the subjects ever know? Will they see the conditioning?

(not looking forward to any bible thumpers reciting verses from that book, this is a scientific view by the way.)

[edit on 11-6-2009 by ixiy]

The majority of the people in the world are very ignorant, and I would say most act more like these monkeys than not and it has been that way for many centuries/millennium.