The Fragile Nature of our Reality, page 1

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Topic started on 10-6-2009 @ 01:41 AM by fooffstarr

Have you ever really stopped to think about how fragile (our specific) reality is?

Coming up is some fairly heavy stuff so bare with me.

I was just thinking about a case a few years back here in Australia where a tree fell on a man's car and killed him. Thing is, it was in the middle of nowhere and he was doing 100kph down this isolated road.

His car was the only car in either direction for miles and the tree, that would have fallen anyway, happened to fall at the exact second needed to hit his passing car and kill him.

Think about how crazy the chance of that is. If he had decided to grab a drink before leaving home (or not grab the drink he may have got), or not have raced to beat the red light (or, raced for it instead of stopped) he would still be alive today.

The thing is, not only do these events of 'fate' end the life of one person, they possibly reroute the entire course of history.

Perhaps that man was meant to father a child in a years time, who may have grown up to become a genius and solve a major scientific problem or cure a disease. Perhaps he would have done nothing with his life. We will never know any of these possibilities, but it doesn't mean they never happened. (More on this shortly)

What if one of these freak events happened to a major person in history before they achieved their 'destiny'? It probably has. That is why we don't know about them.

Now we are getting into the realms of string theory and alternate realities.

Our current reality that we know could have been infinitely different.

For every one of these little events of 'fate', an unknown number of alternate realities are (theoretically) created.

You are creating these alternate realities even now. And every one of them then branches off into an again infinite number of possibilities for the future.

----
You scratch it.
Your shoulder itches>
You don't scratch it.
----

That choice you make (or the illusion of that choice) changes reality for everyone for the rest of time. Sounds a bit dramatic I know, but who is to say that history might (or might not) play out differently in each of those realities you just created?

I am creating a new reality by posting this topic. If I had chosen not to post it, things may turn out completely different.

I'm sure there are alternate realities parallel to us right now in which Hitler won the war, or Einstein didn't create the atom bomb.

Those pivotal moments in history are usually the alternate realities people talk about. I just wanted to touch on the sheer strangeness of this theory and how in our day to day lives we are able to (possibly) change history.

Some people get depressed about this kind of thing and worry about it. I'm sure this theory has driven some people crazy.

I think of it more as a motivator. I consider 'fate' and 'destiny' what we make it. There is nothing to do about these 'fate' incidents. You can't actively prevent them, because you can't see the future.

I think that aiming to change history for the better in our reality is a noble goal. We can't be responsible for any changes we make to other realities (if they even exist). We can only use what we know and work on our reality.

(Yes this thread has been strange, but was just something on my mind I wanted to throw out there).

[edit on 10-6-2009 by fooffstarr]

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 02:06 AM by Republican08

Well, Einstien didn't solely create it, it was quite a large group of people

You can thank him for a cornucopia of other things though!

Parrellel Universes.

Also think of this, though there are tons of these things, that arent' so significant. The other day I was 30 minutes late for work, I was 5 minutes away and had to turn back because I forgot my ciggarettes, yeah I was livid! My boss was okay with it though after calling him. Although there were no accidents on the road that day, there could've been an extreme instance such as this mans, had I not gone back, but I did.

So it's not hard to believe that 1 out of 6.7 billion people had quite a spectacular disaster!

I also had gotten quite a few numbers at work that day, maybe because I was less stressed from having those smokes nearby, had I not, I could of been more angry and had those lives i've influenced not there, for good or bad.

Things happen constantly, it's two sided belief.

Either everything we do is predetermined down to electrons and such, or we are consistently and unfathimouly creating parellel universe to no extent imaginable!

I believe in the latter, why because the first one sucks, and the second holds more options to behold.

Why believe that your reading this right now, not because you chose to but, it was going to happen, it had to happen you have no power over your life.

This though, all of this, Fcks up all of time travel, which is this giant enigma.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:00 AM by DrDragonfly

What you speak of is known as the "Butterfly Effect", and was first described in 1890 by Jacques Hadamard, a France mathematician.

Quote from Wikipedia:

The phrase refers to the idea that a butterfly's wings might create tiny changes in the atmosphere that may ultimately alter the path of a tornado or delay, accelerate or even prevent the occurrence of a tornado in a certain location. The flapping wing represents a small change in the initial condition of the system, which causes a chain of events leading to large-scale alterations of events. Had the butterfly not flapped its wings, the trajectory of the system might have been vastly different. While the butterfly does not cause the tornado, the flap of its wings is an essential part of the initial conditions resulting in a tornado.

Source: Wikipedia

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:18 AM by fooffstarr

reply to post by Republican08

Perhaps it isn't a big deal happening to one man out of that many, but it was only one example.

Depending on what you believe, he may have been predetermined to die on that day in that place.

But if you think of it in reference to these other aforementioned theories, his death could cause (or prevent) any number of things.

One human can change the course of history... dead or alive.

reply to post by DrDragonfly

Thanks. I know of the Butterfly Effect (great band

) but had a mental blank when searching for the term in my writing.

This thread is kind of a strange meshing of these theories. Firstly, the theory that we create a parallel universe with every action we make. And secondly, that each action and the (at least perceived) choices we make can have dramatic results in our current reality.

It is stuff like this I love to discuss, but it makes my head spin.

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:23 AM by Republican08

reply to post by fooffstarr

Yep, just like had Hitler gotten into that Art School what would've changed!
Would we just now be discovering Atomic Bombs?

Or it could be predetermined, but predetermined sucks man, think about it, if you die tomorrow, from causes of divinity, would that make life, life, a free life, (sorry for typos, a fly has appeared on my laptop and i'mnn trying to shoo him away).

Butterfly effect is good, dmn fly, i'm sorry i'll edit this after it's gone!!!!

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:24 AM by bsbray11

reply to post by fooffstarr

I know exactly what you mean. It was once intuited to me that the true "atom" of all existence, the smallest discrete part, is actually these structure-defining events. If not in this world, then in primordial worlds, but expanding out to eventually include our experiences as well. And that idea has stuck with me ever since then. And every time I see these little seemingly random interactions of conscious that define our courses, it's like a pin-prick in our space time where something that would be indeterminate (multiple possible states) condenses and manifests as something in particular. And everything in between is just "empty space."

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:24 AM by Rivyolie

The thing that gets me though is: he to chose to have or not have a drink, to race or not race a red light, for a reason. Why would he not choose that again and again, if he didn't know what it meant? Why wouldn't anyone do the same things as last time, if they didn't know what the true consequence would be?
Maybe the only way to create a parallel universe is time travel, maybe that is why we have never met anyone from the future; because they can only travel to alternate universes. You didn't kill your grandparents: you killed an alternative universe's you's grandparents.
Did any of that make sense...

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:32 AM by fooffstarr

reply to post by bsbray11

It makes us, as humans, seem more significant doesn't it?

As far as the universe is concerned, we are nothing but a grain of sand, but on our own planet and in our own time line we can shape the future without even knowing it.

reply to post by Rivyolie

I disagree.

Sometimes people open the fridge, only to close it again and move on. They didn't do it for a reason, they just did it on an impulse. The difference between life/death or making history/being inconsequential could hinge on one of these impulse actions.

There is no way of knowing when we make these choices what the overall outcome will be. Choices we make for ourselves are usually fairly short-term in their outlook. I mean, it is impossible to see the end result of some of these butterfly effect choices anyway.

Perhaps a kid gets bullied in school. Will the bully know or care that that kid will no longer become President because his self esteem is destroyed for life?

reply posted on 10-6-2009 @ 03:44 AM by longgone

www.pbs.org...

www.pbs.org...

If you would like to spin your head! Check out the above.

reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 03:19 AM by fooffstarr

reply to post by longgone

Great links. Thanks.

I'm far from the intellectual level required to study these subjects in depth and expand on what is already known, but I find it hugely fascinating to examine what has already been proposed about string theory and the butterfly effect.

On a personal note, as an Atheist, I find that these strange principals that seem to connect everything and every action together are the closest thing to some sort of omnipotent force.

[edit on 11-6-2009 by fooffstarr]

reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 03:50 AM by TiM3LoRd

Originally posted by Republican08
This though, all of this, Fcks up all of time travel, which is this giant enigma.

actually alternate realities is the only way time travel could work. since it eliminates the grandfather paradox.

basically the moment you travel back in time you create an alternate future history. travel into the future works off potentials. basically you travel into a future where you had no influence in the world. so if you moved 100 years into the future then there would be no record of yur existence.

reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 03:51 AM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

reply to post by TiM3LoRd

Considering time travel may not be possible by any stretch.

reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 05:29 AM by TiM3LoRd

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

technically speaking people that fly commercial jets are aging slower than normal people on the ground. so in a sense they are traveling into the future faster than we are. and its been proven that if a worm hole could be created and maintained travel into the past is also possible. just because we cant do it yet doesnt mean it cant be done.

reply posted on 11-6-2009 @ 06:16 AM by iulslion

reply to post by fooffstarr

My view is this. Parallel dimensions make perfect sense, except it doesn't quite work like that. Why?
Conservation of energy. If a parallel dimension was created every time someone made a choice, then there would be an infinite amount of universes out there, which could happen if the laws of physics somehow didn't apply.

On the other hand, I would explain it like this.

What is a parallel dimension? A thought experiment.

1. Draw a straight line on an imaginary piece of paper.
This line has 1 dimension.

2. Take that line and drag it in any direction, other than the one the line is on. (90 degrees from the line would produce a square)
In order to do this you needed to use the second dimension. You now have a 2 dimensional object. (note: we have multiple dimensions)

3. Now take that flat object and drag it out into a new direction. Giving it hight. (we have now left the imaginary paper)
Again, another dimension is required,
we have entered the 3rd dimension.

This is where it gets tricky. (it helps at this point to imagine the 3D object you drew as a point or very small ball/cube)

4. In order to move a 3D object, for example to turn it upside down, we need to move it through a higher dimension. (otherwise you would simply be changing its size/shape)
We need a 4th dimension - time.

Its easy to get this, if you imagined what would happen if you could stop time. Everything would stop moving.

Hence, we can say that a living being, is in fact a 4 dimensional object, capable of moving in the 4th dimension. (animated if you like - in time)

5. Now as we know, in time you can only move in one direction - right?
WRONG

Because the future is not SET, it can change.

We have the ability to predict what will happen as result of an action. In order to do that, we need to be able to "imagine" different "time lines" with different possibilities. This means that the dimension higher than time is "thought".

Thought, has the unique quality of being "outside time". You can think about the past, or future.

So there exists many parallel timelines, which all lead to different futures, but they are all imaginary - in our minds. (There is only one real time-line)

A time line, as with the first line you drew on the piece of paper could have been drawn in any initial direction. But once it is drawn to a point, it can only change its direction.

In order for the time line to change direction, it must move through the 5th dimension. Which is most commonly called the dimension of "Probability" or as I like to call it - Possibility.

It makes no sense to say that every change in direction of the line, creates a new line. Then we would have 2 lines, 2 universes and twice the energy.

Other than that the possibilities are endless...whatever you can imagine (within the laws of physics of course!!!)

[edit on 11-6-2009 by iulslion]

reply posted on 16-6-2009 @ 08:03 AM by longgone

Aren't you a clever little soul. You fascinate me.

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