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Can the Eurofighter beat a Su-47 ?

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posted on May, 2 2004 @ 11:40 AM
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Now that the world knows the F-22 is well and truly the most unbeatable aircraft, that leaves second place up for grabs for the eurofighter and the su-47.

It will be a well contested fight as both airplanes are highly menuverable.

I personally feel the Su-47 can beat the eurofoghter.




posted on May, 2 2004 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Now that the world knows the F-22 is well and truly the most unbeatable aircraft,
nothing is unbeatable



that leaves second place up for grabs for the eurofighter and the su-47.
su-47 is a testbed aircraft

It will be a well contested fight as both airplanes are highly menuverable.
I personally feel the Su-47 can beat the eurofoghter.
case closed




posted on May, 2 2004 @ 11:46 AM
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you should compare Su-27SM or Su-35 to eurofighter.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Now that the world knows the F-22 is well and truly the most unbeatable aircraft, that leaves second place up for grabs for the eurofighter and the su-47.


How does the world know that the F-22 is unbeatable? It has never been used in combat, which is the true test of all equipment.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 11:50 AM
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I agree with Flanker - nothing is unbeatable. Its not a question of how good the plane is - a plane is only as good as the pilot flying. You can have a really cr*p pilot in a good plane getting shot down by a really good pilot in an old wornout fighter.

Anyone watch 'Down Periscope' with Kelsey Grammer - a 60yr old diesel sub taking on the entire nuclear navy. This highlights my point.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by Humpy
I agree with Flanker - nothing is unbeatable. Its not a question of how good the plane is - a plane is only as good as the pilot flying. You can have a really cr*p pilot in a good plane getting shot down by a really good pilot in an old wornout fighter.


Yeah I'm sure they put the absolute worst pilots in control of a US$159 million aircraft. It kind of even's out the playing field, all the good pilots in the USAF get F-4's while the novice beginners get the F-22, sounds about right [/sarcasm]



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Humpy
I agree with Flanker - nothing is unbeatable. Its not a question of how good the plane is - a plane is only as good as the pilot flying. You can have a really cr*p pilot in a good plane getting shot down by a really good pilot in an old wornout fighter.


You also have to consider the information/tactical/communication structure.
The pilot who has the better/clearer and most current vision of the battlefield has a distinct advantage. ie. AWACS



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 12:21 PM
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Has the Berkut thrust-vectoring? I think yes, but I'm not sure. If yes, than Su-47 can beat EF (if Berkut is equiped with good avionics and radar). As already somebody wrote EF should be compared to Su-35.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by longbow
Has the Berkut thrust-vectoring? I think yes, but I'm not sure. If yes, than Su-47 can beat EF (if Berkut is equiped with good avionics and radar). As already somebody wrote EF should be compared to Su-35.


yeah.. and especially su-27SM as russia will have more of them then su-35



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 12:49 PM
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AWACS can be shot down as the Russians have a 400km AAM for that purpose , so relying on AWACS could be a problem.

From what I read USAF has done poorly in mock airbattles with Israeli , Germans and even Indians jets. Some of these mock battles ended up 20:1 against the USAF . Yes there were mitgating factors but if the pilot is tops then the USAF could be in trouble.

Biased Rand study peg the kill ratio against common SU-27 threat [all things being equal
] at
10:1 vs F-22 and 4.5:1 Vs Typhoon. So by that comparison F-22 will only get about 2.2 :1 against TYphoon in a airbattle
....going on the biased Rand study.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by psteel
AWACS can be shot down as the Russians have a 400km AAM for that purpose , so relying on AWACS could be a problem.

From what I read USAF has done poorly in mock airbattles with Israeli , Germans and even Indians jets. Some of these mock battles ended up 20:1 against the USAF . Yes there were mitgating factors but if the pilot is tops then the USAF could be in trouble.


Well, AWACS are only one facet of the whole information picture. There is ground-based mobile radar. Fixed posistion radar, AWACS, Hawkeyes, human ground recon, UAVS..etc. The means of getting the info is not the point, just getting the info in time is most inportant.

Regardless of nationality. A pilot that knows where his adversaries are before they know where he is, has a huge advantage.

As far as the wargame senarios, could you post your sources? I do recall reading something about the Indian Air Force doing well against the US pilots.

But 20:1? You have to be more specific. What were the scenarios and situations presented? I have trouble believing a 20:1 kill ratio was achieved.

thanks
.

[Edited on 2-5-2004 by Facefirst]



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by psteel
AWACS can be shot down as the Russians have a 400km AAM for that purpose , so relying on AWACS could be a problem.

From what I read USAF has done poorly in mock airbattles with Israeli , Germans and even Indians jets. Some of these mock battles ended up 20:1 against the USAF . Yes there were mitgating factors but if the pilot is tops then the USAF could be in trouble.

Biased Rand study peg the kill ratio against common SU-27 threat [all things being equal
] at
10:1 vs F-22 and 4.5:1 Vs Typhoon. So by that comparison F-22 will only get about 2.2 :1 against TYphoon in a airbattle
....going on the biased Rand study.


No it coould also mean F22 can shot down 10 Typhoons. You need to make direct comparison between those aircrafts.
P.S. I think this study is a bunch of #. How could they know what specs the Raptor has(including RCS)? And also those specs of Su-35.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by longbow

Originally posted by psteel
AWACS can be shot down as the Russians have a 400km AAM for that purpose , so relying on AWACS could be a problem.

From what I read USAF has done poorly in mock airbattles with Israeli , Germans and even Indians jets. Some of these mock battles ended up 20:1 against the USAF . Yes there were mitgating factors but if the pilot is tops then the USAF could be in trouble.

Biased Rand study peg the kill ratio against common SU-27 threat [all things being equal
] at
10:1 vs F-22 and 4.5:1 Vs Typhoon. So by that comparison F-22 will only get about 2.2 :1 against TYphoon in a airbattle
....going on the biased Rand study.


No it coould also mean F22 can shot down 10 Typhoons. You need to make direct comparison between those aircrafts.
P.S. I think this study is a bunch of #. How could they know what specs the Raptor has(including RCS)? And also those specs of Su-35.




exactly, its BS, i bet they tested it with enemy aircraft that had no awacs or support what so ever.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by Flanker




exactly, its BS, i bet they tested it with enemy aircraft that had no awacs or support what so ever.


Maybe they tested it in fair head to head combat without AWACS (
but I still don't know how can some british office test the F-22 (top secret) against any aircraft . And I also don't think the Russians would reveal Su-35 specifications for tests.
. Maybe they are already well known (it is Su-27 modification) but I don't think it is the best to rely on some simulation results.



posted on May, 2 2004 @ 03:17 PM
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I have sais this time and again , airframes are only one ingredient in the mixture of airdominance. Mobility, avionics, situational awareness, tactics, training, and political constraints all determine ability


ppp

posted on May, 3 2004 @ 10:19 AM
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"P.S. I think this study is a bunch of (c). How could they know what specs the Raptor has(including RCS)?"

Try an RCS of 0.025 m2 and Radar range of 490km.



posted on May, 3 2004 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by ppp
"P.S. I think this study is a bunch of (c). How could they know what specs the Raptor has(including RCS)?"

Try an RCS of 0.025 m2 and Radar range of 490km.

oh really? u say its so secret then y is thier specs for the F22 on dozens of sites and forums ? anyway it wasnt just a british person that done it frankly i think u woulda been happy to see your top plane is still top
hell the JSF beats the typhoon. the f22 has a 92 % rcs and the typhoon has 81% not bad considering its a light fighter



posted on May, 3 2004 @ 03:59 PM
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if its smaller it should be a smaller RCs unless Its a flying wall, but I think the study is just ussing how much the USAF will admit the size is, it might be even smaller and more manuererable. With software constraints for testing no one really knows how well teh raptor can perform.



posted on May, 5 2004 @ 04:34 AM
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Getting back to the topic .......

The Su-47 and the eurofighter are both unstable airframes. So menuverability is determined by the real time electronic systems.

The russians were never really known for superlative electronics. Thus, considering the european electronics are better, maybe the eurofighter's menuverability is better, giving it the decisive advantage.......



posted on May, 5 2004 @ 06:00 AM
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Maybe not as maneuverable because it doesnt have thrust vectoring, but the EF2000 is still decisively better




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