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Today i received a letter from my ISP...

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posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by coincidence_theorist
 



Ok so you yourself buy a hardcopy of downloaded material you like. Good for you...I have a real hard time believing that the rest of them do the same. If you want to make no money on your films that is fine and dandy. I will gladly take a free copy when it is done. The thing is you don't speak for the rest. So again let's forget for a moment that Tom Cruise and Ron Howard have many millions to live and play with. Ok they are set. What about the grips, distributors, set-designers, makeup artists and all of the rest of the folks who help make this movie? Should we go ahead and abandon or diminish their salary as well?

-Kyo




posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by KyoZero
 


I agree with coincidence_theorist, since when has art become a commodity.

Do you remember the good old days of MTV, where music was used to promote new artists. Now WMG & YouTube have fell out because WMG wanted revenue based on per click/per view, then the whole industry became a laughing stock.



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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I think these psychopathic organizations, who try and compare not paying for something as stealing.
Give utmost disrespect to those who are real victims of theft, and actually lose a physical thing because of the crime and are now out of pocket.
This is about forced sales, not theft.
If you don't want to buy it you don't have to.
And copying it, the company or artist is not losing a physical thing.
In fact you spent your own time, copying it and using it.
You are not taking something from them without their permission.
You are simply not buying something off them.
That is not theft.
Intellectual property is a lie and a con and a scam.
Go to someones house and watch a movie, you aren't paying for it.
Is that theft?
Go to someones house listen to music, you didn't pay for it.
Is that theft?
Of course it isn't.
And that is exactly the same as copying it and watching or listening to it.
You don't own an original, you don't have the full quality as you would if you purchased it.
It is not the same.
The majority of people in the world would pay for something of quality if they really liked it.
Yet if they buy it, they cant get a refund if they find it to be of inferior quality.
So why shouldn't they be able to try it first?
The same amount of people who buy the stuff still do and this can be proven with sales figures.
What this is about is forced sales upon people who would not have paid for it in the first place because they don't have the money to pay for it.
Movie company's sometimes make 500% profit in the first opening weekend.
No ordinary people could ever to hope to make that much return on an investment in only a few days.
Steal someones car, someone loses an actual car, they are minus 1 car.
Steal a pair of jeans from a shop, the shop loses an actual pair of jeans they are minus 1 pair of jeans.
Copy your friends movie because you cant afford to buy it.
What does the movie company lose, when you couldn't afford to buy it in the first place?
Nothing.



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by Mister E.
I'm curious to know why the owner, or someone in nice car would deliver the letter to you. I thought most companies used the post office or fedex.


They required immediate action to remove the torrent, so that means, can't wait one day or until the afternoon to get the letter delivered and hope for the guy to do the right thing, and so this guy came because they took it very seriously, i'm guessing they had another or several similar problems in the past and it got bad for them maybe?

Don't know, but the guy seemed very serious about it so i think it is a big deal to them, not that much for me but anyway, i don't want to hurt someone else's business, although the ISP is not one of the big companies out there, it is also not that small, i have looked around and it do seem to be a growing business which supports several cities and towns around the state.

Still small, but not that small that one of the owners must go by himself to deliver a notice, so i guess they panicked and wanted to be sure things were ok and nothing could go wrong.

"If you want things done ok, do it yourself"




[edit on 10-6-2009 by Kaifan]

[edit on 10-6-2009 by Kaifan]



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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(edit) I am not with the ISP this person is posting, just a diff ISP
(edit)

Just as a preface. I work in the engineering department and am one of a couple people who get to process DMCA complaints. There are a few points about it. It is weird that they took a letter to you as ISPs are not obliged to do anything at all when we get the letters from Lawyers. ISP's are shielded via various laws that protect the venue from actions of people done. Same laws that shield ATS from potential illegal content in posts like cyberstalking etc.

That being said he was probably acting weird because he was expecting you to go hostile on him.

In the last 6 years I have probably handled 500+ such complaints and we are a sizable ISP. In this time I have never heard of it going beyond that generic letter that you describe-and yes they are all like that.

I mentioned earlier that we are not obliged to act. as Sony and others cannot sue us (well, they technically can but they wouldnt win). However they can supeona end user information and sue them. So we decided that it would be best to try and scare the customer, why allow a family to possibly lose their house because their kid is downloading twilight?

As for how it works, a few people mentioned honey pots. That is exactly right. In many cases the studios post the movies themselves and scrape the IP addresses that connect to download. A problem here is if your wireless is not secure a neighbor could download it and you can get slammed. It doesnt matter if it is on your HDD. There is enough forensic evidence to show the IP assigned to you was active in the crime-thats all they need to win in court. If you doubt that spend a few minutes reading the cases.

Given no ISP wants to be known as someone handing information over for lawsuits. It is safe to say this was a good faith effort to keep you safe and I am 99% certain you will never hear about this again.

Your ISP was not spying on you, they did you a gavor by giving the cease and desist alert. Even though it was weird. You could swap ISPs but prob will wind up with one that just hands your information over. Keep in mind: Paranoia plus spitefullness destroy the things that protect you.


If you want some protection, look up peerguardian. It is a firewall style program that has a published list with options to block gov ips, schools, custom, whatever.



Originally posted by Kaifan
Today someone came to my door, just a dude from the isp delivering a letter, he was kind of freaked out so i thought it was something bad, he said "please read this letter and let me know what do you think about it", and he was about to go but i opened the letter and read it there so he waited, then i asked about that and he said he really didn't knew but that i should do as the letter says
, the letter is from the isp, and obviously he works there, at the end he says please sign this and here's my email and phone number, and it turns out he is something like one of the owners of the isp, i look out on the street and see a cool fancy new car outside so i guess this guy is loaded, so, what is he doing delivering letters in person instead of sending some worker bee?

And the letter said something about Sony Pictures Entertainment [SPE] contacting them because i supposedly was distributing non authorized content of "Terminator Salvation" by using a peer to peer service.

In the letter they ask for immediate termination of the distribution of the non-authorized content or they will terminate my connection.

Also, the letter says, SPE reserves the right to sue me if they so wish or something on that line.

So, wth? i come inside and after the guy saying there's no problem at all and this is just a warning and you just stop doing that and nothing will happen, but seriously wth, so i come inside and start thinking about how this is happening, then i remember, i brought home my brother's computer two days ago for repairs, so i go and check what's going on with that pc and there it is, a bit torrent client running on the systray, cool! i remove all the shared stuff and close the client, there were a few more things there, i wonder if i will get other letters later on?

So now i'm screwed? or maybe not, but that line about they reserving the right to sue is not really to my liking.

Also, are they really monitoring every net connection so they know what we are up to? they know everything we do online with help from the isp, at least that's obvious to me now, but is this legal? if this is going on, then i guess they also know i am on this site right now, and maybe they also can spy on my email and everything i do while online?

At least from this i get, i don't have any privacy while i am online, at least not with this isp, by the way, i am located in Mexico right now, and the letter of course came in spanish, but i am guessing its the same as in the US or other countries, i will have to go and talk to my lawyer about this.

Yeah i know this is their lines and i am just buying access to them, but do they really have the right to spy on everything i do online? i mean, how do i know they are not also spying on my email, my online chats, web sites i visit, clients i talk to, business i do, online bank transactions? i can't trust this anymore.

Time to go look for another isp...



[edit on 10-6-2009 by lordtyp0]



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by CaptainCaveMan

Copy your friends movie because you cant afford to buy it.
What does the movie company lose, when you couldn't afford to buy it in the first place?
Nothing.


I completely agree with you.

The same as if someone would pay per view while on the museum, and if you look twice, you get to pay twice


I don't know, but i don't think that was the idea before record companies were formed and started to get greedy, i don't think Leonardo da Vinci would go for something like this, or Mozart, even if they did sell their works, they would not go as far as doing things like this.. or did they?




posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by lordtyp0
 


That's a great post, thanks lordtyp0.

May i get your feedback on this thread please; how would it fair against the iron fist of the copyright police.



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by CaptainCaveMan

Movie company's sometimes make 500% profit in the first opening weekend.
No ordinary people could ever to hope to make that much return on an investment in only a few days.


Not to get off topic, but could you please provide a link for this statistic if you will. I've never seen this to be this case and would be extremely interested in this.

That would mean a film that cost 50 million (which would be low for a film with a wide enough release to make over 100 million opening weekend)would need to make around 400 million on opening weekend since box office numbers do not account for distribution, publicity, advertising and print costs to name a few.

Highest grossing film is currently The Dark Knight, U.S. opening weekend was 158 million, production budget was reported at 185 million. U.S. advertising was estimated in the 60 million range.

Not to say they didn't eventually make money off of it, but 500% opening weekend on any film would be almost impossible to achieve.



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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I am taking a look at it, but please remember, Im not a lawyer. Can only speak from experience as someone who has been stuck in the middle many times
.


Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety
reply to post by lordtyp0
 


That's a great post, thanks lordtyp0.

May i get your feedback on this thread please; how would it fair against the iron fist of the copyright police.



posted on Jun, 10 2009 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by Kaifan
 

More then likely when you took it in for repairs they look at you system and reported it they do the same with child porn. But this would be the first case I ever heard of them reporting to a entertainment company unless it went threw government channels in that case I would have to assume the guy was issueing something idk its weird. Just like that case where that women got a im on MP3 rocket and then she got busted weird #



posted on Jun, 14 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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If i were you I would consider, or atleast tell your brother to download PeerGaurdian 2 ;-).



posted on Jun, 14 2009 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by mosesgunner
If i were you I would consider, or atleast tell your brother to download PeerGaurdian 2 ;-).


Well i think the most probable explanation is, they have their own servers distributing the movies, so they will know who is downloading their content, whatever methods we use to hide, if we download directly from them, are useless


Anyway, that pc was really bloated, full of a lot of useless stuff, and i got rid of everything on it just to be sure.

I still think downloading movies is not something good, only for movies that can't be found on stores anymore or were never distributed on your region, but i don't like to see a movie on my PC or TV, is not the same as when going to a theater, not the same experience at all.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 12:12 AM
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I've been caught maybe 3 times and I have always said my wireless network is open. I wouldn't freak out about it I would just not download anything again. I also don't think they monitor everything because they would never have the resources to do that. I believe they monitor new movies & games and generally that is where You will get caught. I have not been caught downloading old movies but then again I haven't done that much to begin with.



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by kommunist
reply to post by ratcals
 


You're right. I repent all my evil pirating ways.

If people don't stop file sharing P.Diddy and Jay-Z can't drink $1000 bottles of champagne and stuff $100 bills down stippers thongs!

God forbid!

[edit on 9-6-2009 by kommunist]


Stealing is stealing. They set the prices, and you decide whether or not you pay for it or not.

I personally do not ever buy music from artists. I have youtube and a radio, along with other free streams.

Whether or not you agree with their millions of dollars, stealing is never right.

Regardless, if you wish to do it, and MANY people have and still do, go for it. I do think their crap is over priced and that it is a joke that they can become so rich off of it...but do not try to justify it.

Honor among thieves...rules of war...same difference.

To tell you the truth, I do not care one percent if you steal their music, but it is not "right" and you are still "stealing".



posted on Jun, 15 2009 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by FritosBBQTwist
 


You numpty.

You can't steal copyright, only infringe it. Stealing is denying the original item from the owner.

Get your facts right, before spouting nonsense.



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by Kaifan
 


sometimes companies like Universal will make torrents available on torrent sites. they track it and then call the ISP when someone using that ISP downloads a torrent that they themselves posted. sounds like entrapment. in other cases it's not the downloading that arouses their suspicions, but the upload rate.



posted on Jun, 16 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by PrisonerOfSociety
reply to post by FritosBBQTwist
 


You numpty.

You can't steal copyright, only infringe it. Stealing is denying the original item from the owner.

Get your facts right, before spouting nonsense.


Whether or not my vocabulary matches what I mean to say, are you saying people are justified for pirating music and other software?

This is how I see it. Artist makes music. If you wan't to have a "copy" of it, you pay for it. I do not get what point you are trying to put out...



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by FritosBBQTwist
 


Your nick name is funny, I wonder what's the twist?

Oh, by the way, I don't eat Fritos
so i wouldn't really know


Kai


Oh yeah, the on topic comment, i almost forgot.

Errrr, i believe, as many people do, that art, if we can call art our current movies, is to be seen and enjoyed, but there's one thing, as i said earlier, when you go to a museum, do you pay per view? or you can see each work as many times as you want?

If you don't intend to buy a movie on dvd, and will never go to the theater just for that movie, how are you 'stealing' from the creators? if you get that movie from some internet site? what did they lose because of you?

That, i don't get, i mean, if someone steals my car, i lose something, i someone breaks into my house and takes away my tv and pc, then i have lost something, but if i draw a picture and someone looks at it, then, have i lost something because of their eyes looking at it?

To be blunt, our current 'art' is nothing but a business, and a dirty one at that, there's no art, just a business. buy it or you don't get to see it, just that.

It's all about the money.

And they are overpriced, i am a software developer, i own a software business, i get to do the bad stuff, if someone comes and says, i need a compiler modified to add this features, i say, 10,000 usd, one month, then we go and do it in 4 days, i know how they charge for things, i use to work for GE before going on my own, back then, i had to make estimates for improvements on the apps we were working on, i got to see the prices they use to charge, 200 dollar per hour, great! 16,000 dollars for two weeks, 3 days for actual development, then 7 days playing around with other projects and doing nothing at all


That's the real software world, out there, with big enterprises. movies are not different at all.


[edit on 17-6-2009 by Kaifan]

[edit on 17-6-2009 by Kaifan]

Edited to add, i am no newbie on this business, my first job was at IBM and it lasted for about 4 years, then 2 years on GE, then on my own since a year ago, i have friends working on Pixar, MS, IBM, GE, Sun, and others' i know how the business work, i can play the "oh my god how hard is this let's charge a lot for it since only we know how to do it" but in reality it is "let's get it done today, then let's go party with all the money we just made", as bad as it sounds, and anyone who is in the business would know is true, wan't to see someone really working hard to earn money, go look at game developers, and they don't earn enough most of the time.

[edit on 17-6-2009 by Kaifan]



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by ratcals
Hey I have a really great idea that should fix your problem. Don't steal things and then pass STOLEN material around. It's called pirating, not file sharing. That's just a term you pirates use to justify what you are doing.

I don't know what you do for a living but imagine there was a way someone could obtaining it without paying for it? So how do you get paid? You don't. And I'm not talking about the artists or actors not getting paid. It's the the distribution companies who don't get paid.

If you want it, pay for it. Stealing is wrong. Stealing by any other name is still stealing.

Before you ask, YES I have original copies of every music, movie or software disc I own.


Don't preach please. I personally admit I download all kinds of stuff BUT the only things I download are movies and music put out by mainstream companies like hollywood movies and major record labels. I will and do purchase a lot of independent music and movies from artists and directors I actually want to support. Also artists on mainstream record labels dont make much money from record sales anyways, they get most their money from concerts. Also most of them are filthy rich scumbags anyways, I'm not giving them anymore money, but like I said I support a lot of independent artists and buy all their music. Most the things I download illegally are usually stupid movies or a song I'll only watch or listen to once, so I don't think I should have to pay for that. I know everyone I just typed is a bunch of excuses, but I seriously see nothing wrong with occasionally downloading a new movie or a couple songs.

I personally don't see anything wrong with what I do at all. I do however see something extremely wrong with the people who just download every program and game and movie just for the sake of having it. Thats greedy as hell and greed sucks.

Anyways those are my thoughts on illegal downloading.

[edit on 17-6-2009 by Jeasaaone]

[edit on 17-6-2009 by Jeasaaone]

[edit on 17-6-2009 by Jeasaaone]



posted on Jun, 17 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by KyoZero
 


I don't see why you think grips and electricians etc would be put out of work or lose money because of downloading. If the system weren't skewed in the favour of the few that do the less work getting the most money, this wouldn't be the case.

A grip has a job, and is paid to do that job. same with a writer, same with a director, same with a sound board operator in a music studio.

Their salary is based on the job they do, and the hours of work they put in to it. They should be paid for this no matter how many copies the movie or cd sells, they have already done their job.

does a construction worker get paid for every car that drives over a road that they build?

I don't want to give my work away for free. If I directed a movie, I would expect to be paid a salary for directing that movie. After that, I just want as many people to see it as possible, it's mainly the producers who are concerned with raking in tons of dough after the film comes out. Perhaps if they weren't so concerned with making such a huge profit, better films would be made. But instead, they put pressure on everyone else involved to make the most money possible instead of making the best product possible.

Who asked for film budgets to raise to 150 million dollars? Producers dump huge sums of money into films so that they have no choice but to do everything possible to make that money back. They have to make endorsement deals, and product placements and next thing you know, Pepsi has more say in what happens in the film than any of the actual creative people who put it together.

The system is going to change, it is being forced to change. Consumers are the ones forcing this change and it is either going to change for the better or the few with all the cash are going to get even more power, some seem to think they should even have the power to arrest people for seeing or hearing art.

Is that really the change people want? Who does that benefit other than the rich? It does not benefit the talent it does not benefit the labour. Just because a rapper can hold up a wad of hundred dollar bills does not make him less of a slave, in fact, it makes him more of one.



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