I think there are several people who are ignoring a major fact here in order to advance their own agenda. The OP was not actively downloading torrents. He was working on a foreign computer that was downloading. Telling him to use peer gaurdian or not to download illegal materials is of no help because in the scenario described to us, neither actually apply to the OP.

Yes but the discussion evolved somewhat to encompass piracy as a whole...so we moved to that diversion as well

-Kyo

There are a lot of people who think it's OK to steal from or overcharge the rich but not from the poor. That's a slippery slope.

If you think it's OK, please at least maintain your "standards" and don't steal from small independent companies, recording studios, artists and small independent film makers. Just because it's easy and you paid some money for you media players, ISPs and computers - that doesn't mean a thing to the artists and producers and all their staff from whom you are stealing.

When I was teaching music to kids this became especially important to me. I bought a lot of educational music software and if they wanted to learn Metallica tunes I had to be the whole flippin' "work of art CD" as back then they wouldn't sell individual tracks...that might still be true but I don't follow them. Before that, yes - I ripped a few tracks that my band were studying (1999) but it wasn't right and I don't do it anymore.

Integrity. Think about it.

Well said lello

Even I forgot about the other folks who work on production and post-production

agreed

-Kyo

Yes, everything you do on the internet can be snooped on and recorded, and it probably is. One thing I learned a long time ago is never do anything on the internet you don't want people to know about. That includes searching for information in search engines because all those searches are stored and even your ip address is collected. There are businesses out there that collect all the information they can about you and sell it to anyone who's interested in buying it, including the general public. There are sites out there that sell "gossip" about you to your friends, potential employers, etc. They can aggregate information from multiple sources by tracking you with cookies across multiple sites. I know this is true because I wrote one of the first software that did this before it caught on.

No, it's not correct what someone said here that everything you do on the internet becomes public domain. You can put things on the internet that are rightfully yours and nobody is allowed to steal them because you created them. But they will steal them anyway illegally and there's usually not a damn thing you can do about it. So don't share or do anything you don't want tracked, aggregated, plagiarized, etc. Take care of your personal online identity because you only get one in a lifetime.

TOR is NOT for file sharing. People really need to stop telling other people that it is because it only annoys the people who donate their bandwidth when (selfish) file sharers murder the network. It is not what TOR is for.

Second, file sharing is not theft. Theft is taking something from someone with the intent of depriving them of the use of that thing. Copying an mp3 or ripping a cd and uploading it via bittorrent is not theft, it is copyright infringement. Unlike theft, copyright infringement is not a criminal offense, it is a civil offence. Infringing copyright denys no one of the use of anything, therefor it is not theft by the legal definition of the word theft. People are sued for copyright infringement, they are not charged with theft. Being civil, infringement requires the aggrieved to initiate legal proceedings to recoup some arbitrary monetary amount they think up out of nowhere. Almost all of the time they cannot even prove a case of infringement occurred, so how hard do you think it would be to prove theft?

If the op had some guy hand delivering the letter he must have an ISP with about 3 people, and 2 of them are pensioners. Ignore it, throw the letter in the trash and get on with your life.

[edit on 10-6-2009 by quackers]

Copying an mp3 or ripping a cd and uploading it via bittorrent is not theft, it is copyright infringement. Unlike theft, copyright infringement is not a criminal offense, it is a civil offence. Infringing copyright denys no one of the use of anything, therefor it is not theft by the legal definition of the word theft. People are sued for copyright infringement, they are not charged with theft.

So does this mean we should just ignore all lesser rules and laws because they probably won't catch us? A civil offense is still illegal. You infringed on the copyright and thus broke the law

-Kyo

Originally posted by quackers
TOR is NOT for file sharing. People really need to stop telling other people that it is because it only annoys the people who donate their bandwidth when (selfish) file sharers murder the network. It is not what TOR is for.

Second, file sharing is not theft. Theft is taking something from someone with the intent of depriving them of the use of that thing. Copying an mp3 or ripping a cd and uploading it via bittorrent is not theft, it is copyright infringement. Unlike theft, copyright infringement is not a criminal offense, it is a civil offence. Infringing copyright denys no one of the use of anything, therefor it is not theft by the legal definition of the word theft. People are sued for copyright infringement, they are not charged with theft. Being civil, infringement requires the aggrieved to initiate legal proceedings to recoup some arbitrary monetary amount they think up out of nowhere. Almost all of the time they cannot even prove a case of infringement occurred, so how hard do you think it would be to prove theft?

If the op had some guy hand delivering the letter he must have an ISP with about 3 people, and 2 of them are pensioners. Ignore it, throw the letter in the trash and get on with your life.

[edit on 10-6-2009 by quackers]

Nothing but semantics and hair splitting, but if that's what helps you sleep at night then good for you.

I know I will never convince the 'copyright infringers' what they are doing is wrong so I'm done with this thread. Continue the march if you like. My conscious is clear.

[edit on 10-6-2009 by ratcals]

Avg Cost of a movie ticket medium popcorn and medium pop: $20
Avg Cost of a Blu Ray DVD: $34
Avg cost of a std DVD: $25
Avg cost of a rented DVD: $5

Avg cost of a CD: $15
avg cost of a concert ticket to a premium concert: $50-$100

Avg cost of a paperback novel:$20
Avg cost of a library book: free.

So, in order to see a movie, to determine if I want to purchase it I must pay at least $10 to watch the film without any refreshments for two hours. Or, I can wait up to six months and pay $5 to rent the movie to which I have probably already had the ending ruined for since it has been out for so long.

Then, IF I like the movie I have to pay another $30 bucks to buy it, or wait another 6 months until it drops to $15-$20 dollars.

As for Music, I have to listen to the "single" that has been released to determine whether or not the entire album is worth buying. I don't even have a CD player! So, I can buy individual songs off the album for $1 each, but how do I know which songs to get?

Aren't these pieces of art? Shouldn't I be able to view/listen to pieces of art without having to buy it? Why have we turned it into a commodity? If i want the piece of art, then I will buy the DVD, but should I not be able to view it first to determine this? Why should I be forced to watch the film in a movie theater with annoying teenagers and over priced food when technology allows me to watch it in the comfort of my own home?

Surprisingly, I work in the entertainment industry. If I were to make a film, and be told by the producers that it didn't make enough at the box office so I can't make another film, but I KNOW that people everywhere have downloaded it and loved it, could I not easily get my "fans" to put pressure on the producers and demand that I be able to continue to create art?

Most artists want to create art, and make enough money to live comfortably on. It is having people see the art that gives the art value.

Do we really need huge movie theaters with 15 screens that are so costly to build and maintain that they have to charge so much?

Both the film and the music industry needs to change. The music industry has needed to change ever since small time music producers were forced to pay radio Dj's to play their music because of the monopoly held by the large corporations (see: payola scandal).

Now we finally have the technology that allows the unknown artist to be known by the entire world but the oligarchy of big corporations are struggling to sustain their monopoly, and nothing more.

Information and Ideas need to be shared. every film and album that I have ever downloaded that I liked, I purchased a GOOD HARDCOPY of later. Not to mention band paraphanalia and concert tickets that have set me back quite a few hundred dollars.

If someone wants to watch my movie for free I say go ahead. If they want to own the film then I suggest they invest in a home theater system and by the film on Blu Ray to get the best viewing experience.

There is only one thing you can do bro...

You need to go through 7 Proxies

It's the only solution

never mind,

deleted into oblivion..

sorry to hear about your situation..

[edit on 10-6-2009 by Adrifter]

I'm curious to know why the owner, or someone in nice car would deliver the letter to you. I thought most companies used the post office or fedex.

Originally posted by KyoZero
So does this mean we should just ignore all lesser rules and laws because they probably won't catch us? A civil offense is still illegal. You infringed on the copyright and thus broke the law
-Kyo

There are more important things for law makers to do than pander after the media industry whores. I never said a civil offense was not illegal, I said copyright infringement was not theft, and legally, it is not. You may want to look into how much net regulation is almost completely down to Holywood and their ilk protecting their outdated and fascist business models. They want more control over your internet than the government does. But thats ok ain't it, I mean everyone is a "thief" right?

Originally posted by ratcals
Nothing but semantics and hair splitting, but if that's what helps you sleep at night then good for you.
[edit on 10-6-2009 by ratcals]

The law is all about semantics, thats what courts are for, or didn't you know that? Theft and Copyright Infringement are two distinctly different things, or do you propose that all unlawful death is murder too, what with the difference between manslaughter and murder being little more than semantics.



[edit on 10-6-2009 by quackers]

[edit on 10-6-2009 by quackers]