US Ship Survivors Tell Press TV of Israeli Attack

Difficult one to call really: in times of war accidents happen & it gets pretty confusing, add to that average human incompetence etc...
However, do governments create false flag events to provoke a reaction or to justify their own actions - hell yes
What exactly happened here??

I guess the optimist in me says it was just incompetent mistakes rather than an intentional attack & false flag event - that's what I'd like to believe anyway...until other evidence crops up that is...

[edit on 9/6/2009 by moobaawoof]

reply to post by captiva
reply to post by mckyle

Star added..
YES, I read through the whole thread, but the false flag scenario, (althought not nearly the first IMO, see Reichstag Fire and many others) is what I think the attack was. From this Wikipedia entry:

On June 8, USS Liberty, a United States Navy electronic intelligence vessel sailing 13 nautical miles (24 km) off Arish (just outside Egypt's territorial waters), was attacked by Israeli air and sea forces, nearly sinking the ship and causing heavy casualties. Israel claimed the attack was a case of mistaken identity, apologized for the mistake, and paid restitution to the victims or their families. The truth of the Israeli claim is still debated but the United States government accepted the incident as an accident (see USS Liberty incident).

But if you read between the lines, (I'm sure it's been covered here on ATS before) who would the attack benefit? When, according to our Navy survivor members on-board USS Liberty, U.S.A. Flags were flying during the entire attack. The strafing and bombing went on for a few hours. See this link. It was during the Six-Day War, and it was probably designed to draw the U.S. into a broader M.E. conflict. Only problem was the USS Liberty didn't sink. Big problem for the "False Flaggers". Do they still do it today?

[edit on 9-6-2009 by 1SawSomeThings]

reply to post by JanusFIN


I'm not sure how this is a "Current Event". True story though.

Shame about the source though. Plenty of sources that are not using it as a weapon.

This is like the Kennedy Assassination in that every year that passes there is less chance of anything being uncovered, not more.

This was beat to death when it happened and for a few years after. I was in my teens but I remember all the controversy. Any disclosure would have to come from Israel and likely from people no longer living or very old and unlikely to talk. Why would they want to dredge up an ancient occurrence to give the Terrorists more ammo.

My guess is that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is behind this as I think he is unsure about the upcoming elections. He likely thinks the more bad blood he can stir up, the better his chances of winning with his radical agenda. The intellegent people in Iran have probably had their fill of his craziness.

reply to post by Blaine91555

This was beat to death when it happened and for a few years after. I was in my teens but I remember all the controversy. Any disclosure would have to come from Israel and likely from people no longer living or very old and unlikely to talk. Why would they want to dredge up an ancient occurrence to give the Terrorists more ammo.

Why dredge this up? US sailors died, for one thing. No hero welcome home, just hushed up. Friendly fire? Highly debatable, some of those sailors are still alive and talking.

Given the current situation in the US with our involvement with Israel via AIPAC and who knows what else, it makes the topic ever-so-pertinent to Americans. It could happen again, and work this time. WW III is for everybody, don't forget.

My take on things:

The USS Liberty was in the area spying on Israel. They did not like it and attacked. The government did not want to admit spying on one of our "friends" even though Israel spys on the US all the time. So the government quietly says we are sorry to Israel and stories are made up to cover the scene.

Think about it. Why would the US government not tell Israel the ship was in the area? Because they were spying on Israel.

Holy crap guys, it was a damn spy ship. I don't know if you guys understand anything about spy missions or operations, but the rule of thumb is that once you're spotted you're f'ed. Period. Your own government will deny knowledge of your operations, and you're on your own. They got busted spying then they got blowed up.

reply to post by dashen

Holy crap guys, it was a damn spy ship. I don't know if you guys understand anything about spy missions or operations, but the rule of thumb is that once you're spotted you're f'ed. Period. Your own government will deny knowledge of your operations, and you're on your own. They got busted spying then they got blowed up.

Hey man, don't you know that Israel was a supposed ally, and USS Liberty was in international waters being observed for at least 9 hours by Israeli flyovers before the strafing and bombing began? Don't flag-flying allies in international waters get a little slack before attempting to sink them with torpedoes and strafing survivors on life rafts? For the sake of those who sacrificed on that mission, please read up here.
False Flag. Period.

reply to post by 1SawSomeThings


It is an interesting Conspiracy to discuss. I was just commenting on the motive behind it's being published in an Iranian source just before their elections.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not a shoe in from what I read. He controls the press in Iran does he not? He also controls Hamas through funding and directly dictates to the Hezbollah.

The reason for that being published this many years after the fact is obvious. This is certainly not a Current Event by any stretch.

I find this interesting in fact, but I'm avoiding these topics to avoid the Bigot's who always pile on.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


The attack on the USS Liberty did occur as stated. The Navy aircraft were called back. The Israeli pilots were incredulous and did not want to follow orders. Apparently enough of them did. I believe that a surface attack followed.
No one knows why the attack occurred or why a Navy air wing didn't respond to calls for help or why an Israeli Defense Minister kept his job after the event. The Sixth Fleet had all of two weeks to investigate the incident. It was completely covered up and no one knows why that happened, either.

To those that want to play the whole incident off by saying "well, it was a U.S spyship, Israel didn't want us spying on them.."

The ship was in international waters.. if it WAS listening, it had the right in that area. Besides, Israel is an ally... what do they care if we are listening, unless they were committing war crimes they did not want us knowing about. A large group of prisoners disappeared in Israel during those days.

The whole premise of the Israel excuse was no identification, no flag.

So then why was the flag riddled with bullet holes when it was brought down for the last time?

If this happened today.. it would be considered an act of war. It should have been considered that then.

They sent in Planes first to take out communications with strafing fire and heat seeking missiles to target the transmitter boxes.

The torpedo boats were sent in to sink the ship.

Finally the helicopter gunships that came were to take out any survivors and any remaining lifeboats.

-edit- Why when they said they thought it was an Egyptian ship were they not jamming the Egyptian frequencies... but were instead jamming completely different U.S. frequencies?

This was a strategically planned military action, and not some quick itchy trigger finger mistake.

Watch the videos I linked to earlier. Listen to the stories of the people that were actually there. Not anyone who is armchair quarter backing.


Why keep bringing it up 40 years later?

"Those
who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -George Santayana





[edit on 9-6-2009 by TwiTcHomatic]

[edit on 9-6-2009 by TwiTcHomatic]

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by Solomons

 

I stand by my statement:

PressTV.IR is "NOTHING" more than a propaganda mouth piece of Iran's ruling mulla's.

Furthermore, it is "ONLY" used by anti Israeli types, like the op and the few like minded people.

If you want the issue to be anything but propaganda lies, try using a reputable source, not Iran's propaganda state run lies.

Lets stop and think of this logically;

Are Americans gonna give an interview for Iran's propaganda times???

Come on people, deny ignorance, don't spread it.

[edit on 6/9/2009 by mrmonsoon]

You can stand by your statement all you want. I have heard about this on the history international channel and it is also mentioned in the loose change video. So this is nothing new and if you think that just because it happened to be brought up by an un-credible source that automatically qualifies it as null and void you are more of a nutcase than the people who wrote the story. You look at everything with skepticism, then you search for correlational sources to verify the original source. This way you pretty much will get the truth. Even "terrorist" media will occasionally tell the truth, when the truth suits their agenda and this just happens to be one of those cases.

You seem like a pretty smart fellow, use that intelligence and do some cross referencing. I think you will find that it is in fact a credible bit of information.

Simply put, the goal of the attack on the USS Liberty was to directly involve the United States in the 1967 6 day war in Palestine...on the side of Israel. If a US ship had indeed been destroyed by an Arab country, the US would have had a reason to enter the war.

The ship was merely a pawn...and it didn't go as planned.

Instead, Israel had to settle for what was left of Palestine, the regions of Gaza and The West Bank which they still control to this day with an iron fist and the Golan Heights. Imagine, with the US acting as their bull dog Israel might have been able to capture Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq and annex them into "Greater Israel".

As the rumour goes the Zionist dream was for a Jewish nation from the Nile to the Euphrates rivers. [info]

Moshe Dayan's visit to the Golan Heights (Syria) soon after its capture by Israeli troops in 1967 has become the stuff of legends. According to Hafiz al-Asad, Dayan announced that "the past generation established Israel within its 1948 borders; we have established Israel within the 1967 borders; and you (speaking to the younger Israeli soldiers) have to establish a Greater Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates."

Around 1900, Theodor Herzl and Isidore Bodenheimer routinely referred to Jewish settlement in "Palestine and Syria," as did organizations like the Jewish National Fund and the Zionist Congress. In 1898, Herzl planned to ask the Ottoman sultan (who ruled over Palestine and the other Arab countries of the region from Turkey) for a territory stretching from the Egyptian frontier to the Euphrates.

And in some way the United States is still trying to help the Zionist expansion project to the tune of 3-billion US citizen tax dollars a year. I guess we still feel guilty about screwing up the plan back in '67...

Now that the US has it's bases in Iraq...Jordan and Syria should be easy pickings.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
We can believe nothing from Iran's "terrorist times".

We know it is state run and has been proven time and again to print nothing but lies.

Please people, use a "REAL" source and don't be a mindless mouth piece for Iran's mulla's.

Yeah like Israel hasn't been living on a foundation of lies ever since it's inception under the zionist government.

If you look at all the evidence of the situation, including private interviews with the crew members, it's very hard to believe this was an accident. There are also reports of intercepted radio conversations between Israeli flight personal and "higher ups" who after being told the ship had an American flag, ordered they be attacked. Flight personal did not agree with the orders because they did not want to attack an ally - USA. But they were threatened and ordered to attack the USS ship.

My opinion on what I think happened that day? Israeli "higher ups" became aware of an American ship in the area and seized an opportunity. Higher ups told the Israeli flight personal to remove all signs on their plains, fly over and attack the USS liberty, and attempt to blame Egypt. This would be beneficial for Israel as they were fighting several enemies at once.

Those who ordered and authorised the attack are evil human beings. They are the ones who defame the whole reputation of Israel by ordering actions that are deceptive and treacherous.

However, I don't think this proves in anyway that Israel is behind every terrorist attack on the planet, like some people try to conclude. Unfortunately, Israel's mistakes and immoral acts are always highlighted, and their positive contributions rarely shown.

I like blaming things on Israel, truly I do. I know they were behind the theft of my Cub Scout wrist watch at the age of 9! Those bastards.

Yet clearly this is a case where the highest levels of the U.S. Government (Johnson) was conspiring with Israel in a false flag operation.

Why would the President of the United States agree to sacrifice one of his own Naval vessels and all hands on board?

As a pretext to join in the war in Israel's defense.

Why would we need a pretext to join in the war? To avoid an Arab Oil Embargo.

Had the Russian Spy Trawler not happened on the scene the attack would have been put off on Egypt. Egypt produces no oil, yet had the largest Military involved in the 1967 War.

We could have appealed diplomaticaly to the Saudis and such that we were just responding to Egyptian aggression, and only attacking Egypt so it would be unreasonable to react with an Oil Embargo.

The Arabs did react with an Oil Embargo in 1972 just for sending in weapons and some special forces on Commercial Airline flights to keep Israel from being overun in that war.

Now having said that, was Johnson is own man or a hostage of a powerful Israeli/Jewish Lobby with a tremendous amount of media access, and congressional voting blocks?

The pressure to so vigorously defend Israel that our own President would aid and abet them to the point of murdering our Nation's own citizens is well...as frightening as it is criminal.

Still just like 9-11 we can't hang it entirely on the Israelis...

They did though manage to somehow get me to overcook my dinner tonight...those bastards!

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
You are clearly Anti-Isreali/Jewish.

Your favorite sources are Iran's (their biggest emeny) state run propaganda machine.

Lets just say, for the sake of discussion, you are correct.

Time to grow up and get over it, seriously.

Let me give you some examples of getting over it:

1)Japan bombed Perl Harbor sinking many ships and killing many thousands of sailors.
Japan was responsible for cruel death marches from it's prisioners of war.
Japan has the rape of nanking(sp?)
Japan took wemon from other countries and made them sex slaves.
For that matter, the US dropped two nukes on Japan

Both Japan and the US have gotton over it.

Germany invaded/ concored and took over France in WW2, they are now both members of NATO

and so on, the list goes on and on.

The thing is, the West moves on from these things, your refusal to let it go shows a M.E. mentality of never forgive, never peace, just kill,kill, kill. (like the Iranian propaganda you preach from Presstv.ir.

By your mentaility, Israel shoul;d just completly distroy egypt, Jordan,Saudi Arabia,Iran....who have all attacked Israel a number of times.

(granted, they got their collective arses kicked, but still)

We have forgiven Japan and they are an allie.

[edit on 6/9/2009 by mrmonsoon]

Wow by that mentality the Jews should get over the Holocaust aswell. I personally think that so many people dead don't lie. They should not forget nor should we about Japan, nor should the Japanese, or the Vietnamese, or the French, or the Russians or Chechens. But please stop labeling everyone who doesn't agree with a government, that is truly moving to the path of tyranny, of being Anti-Semetic, or anti-Israeli. You look like an idiot when you do that, especially when you use comments like the ones above. For Christ's sake man, its 2009.

reply to post by finemanm


Obama would be disappointed? You're kidding right?

The psychopath himself wants to start a new world war. He has already lied about everything he said he would do.

Get your mind straight.

there are actually law suits still pending against israel concerning this attack.
ISRAEL YES ISRAEL, attacked the ship for 2 1/2 hours. when they were done the flag was still flying on the mast. ever seen how BIG those flags are?
this was no midtake. they were trying to sink the ship,kill all aboard,and blame it on egypt. that way we would have taken action egypt,for wonderful,honest israel

840 holes,including 1 40 foot torpedo hole in the side of an UNARMED SHIP.

EVERYONE NEEDS TO WATCH THE VIDEO. I HAVE SEEN IT BEFORE AND MENTIONED IT IN OTHER POSTS.

this is not anti jewish,its anti enemy,who tried to deceive us into military action against another country for their benefit.
you know you're wrong if you have to pull the race card.

it doesn't count that they tried to sacrifice american lives for their own politics?

[edit on 10-6-2009 by Spectre0o0]

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
We can believe nothing from Iran's "terrorist times".

We know it is state run and has been proven time and again to print nothing but lies.

Please people, use a "REAL" source and don't be a mindless mouth piece for Iran's mulla's.

How can you use 'Deny ignorance' in your avatar, and then don't seem to realise this is/was a real event.

It's well documented, and there are probably numerous threads around here or the web about it.

I would suggest you do a little research before you try to discredit story sources...if the facts are the facts, it matters little who or what the source is.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Aloha,
Yes, The US and Israel planned this attack. They were going to blame it on Iran. But people managed to survive. That spoiled their False Flag.
See this video- "Iran is Not the Problem"
video.google.com...#
Bill