US Ship Survivors Tell Press TV of Israeli Attack

reply to post by mrmonsoon


My GOD, look on pg.1 on the last but one post by Zerbs ... sorry for you ... it may open you mind .

reply to post by mrmonsoon


The purpose of this post and all posts on ATS is to INFORM. I was unaware of this story so thanks to the OP for posting this

Monsoon, dude, lighten up. You speak as if the Israel government in the 1960's was you BFF. You're just angry because you were wrong. Despite the source. This post was true not a lie.

And by the way MSM lies all the time, because like PressTV, its not about truth its about the agenda. That's why we're here (ATS).

Originally posted by Zerbst

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
You are clearly Anti-Isreali/Jewish.

Your favorite sources are Iran's (their biggest emeny) state run propaganda machine.

Lets just say, for the sake of discussion, you are correct.

Time to grow up and get over it, seriously.

Let me give you some examples of getting over it:

1)Japan bombed Perl Harbor sinking many ships and killing many thousands of sailors.
Japan was responsible for cruel death marches from it's prisioners of war.
Japan has the rape of nanking(sp?)
Japan took wemon from other countries and made them sex slaves.
For that matter, the US dropped two nukes on Japan

Both Japan and the US have gotton over it.

Germany invaded/ concored and took over France in WW2, they are now both members of NATO

and so on, the list goes on and on.

The thing is, the West moves on from these things, your refusal to let it go shows a M.E. mentality of never forgive, never peace, just kill,kill, kill. (like the Iranian propaganda you preach from Presstv.ir.

By your mentaility, Israel shoul;d just completly distroy egypt, Jordan,Saudi Arabia,Iran....who have all attacked Israel a number of times.

(granted, they got their collective arses kicked, but still)

We have forgiven Japan and they are an allie.

[edit on 6/9/2009 by mrmonsoon]

You are delusional. Japan was our enemy. Do you understand that? They were also forced into attacking the US, by the US. The American government illegally cut off Japan's lifeline and forced their hand. Their only means for desperately needed oil was to cripple the Pacific fleet leaving them unable to stop Japan's quest for oil down there. The US created and let this happen. They did this purposely to gain public favor as a means to enter the war. America refused to have any part of it until the tragedy at Pearl Harbor. Afterward over a million men volunteered to fight in the war.

What the US did was wrong to both Japan and it's own citizens. I'm an American, but I cannot deny or defend these actions taken by my country. Do you see the difference between denial and admission of wrong doing? You think Jews can do no wrong because you're a Jew. I think wrong is wrong no matter what and I'm strong enough to admit it.

You can never compare the cowardly Israeli army to the US or Japan. Unlike them, Israel attacked a defenseless American allied ship? They killed and wounded those they called their allies in hopes the US would fight their war with Egypt for them. Another cowardly act by a delusional, despicable country. That's what you are defending and nothing you say can change the past.

Why not get a better understanding of reality? What you have been told is obviously not the truth. Even the part that makes you think you are better than everyone else. This is why Jews have so much hate against them. Open your eyes to your culture. Though you may not like what you see?

Well said, good to see someone who knows what he is talking about.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


Wow this is the biggest load of hooha, i've heard in along time in these forums...

Statement without providing evidence. Main stream media lies all the time, on this occasion it's not a lie, just google it.

Are you calling Iran terrorists now? I think you're confusing Iraq with Iran.

news outlets there are just as believable as MSM anywhere else.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
We can believe nothing from Iran's "terrorist times".

We know it is state run and has been proven time and again to print nothing but lies.

Please people, use a "REAL" source and don't be a mindless mouth piece for Iran's mulla's.

I bet you're a fan of Fox


But yeah, I never knew about this story before. Thanks for the good thread, s & f

This could have been an attack by israel on the USA in order to cause more conflict in the Middle East and garner more sympathy for israel. We all know that the Jewish bankers are running things anyway and have been doing so for years. The investigation was called off because they got a call from the real world power... Private Bankers.

The Liberty was very nearly the first ever false flag scenario. I believe that the cover up is real. It is very well documented from many sources. The PTB in America at the time most probably organised the attack.

Respects

[edit on 9-6-2009 by captiva]

OLD NEWS:
The Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was a grievous error, largely attributable to the fact that it occurred in the midst of the confusion of a full-scale war in 1967. Ten official United States investigations and three official Israeli inquiries have all conclusively established the attack was a tragic mistake.

On June 8, 1967, the fourth day of the Six-Day War, the Israeli high command received reports that Israeli troops in El Arish were being fired upon from the sea, presumably by an Egyptian vessel, as they had a day before. The United States had announced that it had no naval forces within hundreds of miles of the battle front on the floor of the United Nations a few days earlier; however, the USS Liberty, an American intelligence ship assigned to monitor the fighting, arrived in the area, 14 miles off the Sinai coast, as a result of a series of United States communication failures, whereby messages directing the ship not to approach within 100 miles were not received by the Liberty. The Israelis mistakenly thought this was the ship doing the shelling and war planes and torpedo boats attacked, killing 34 members of the Liberty's crew and wounding 171.

Numerous mistakes were made by both the United States and Israel. For example, the Liberty was first reported — incorrectly, as it turned out — to be cruising at 30 knots (it was later recalculated to be 28 knots). Under Israeli (and U.S.) naval doctrine at the time, a ship proceeding at that speed was presumed to be a warship. The sea was calm and the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry found that the Liberty's flag was very likely drooped and not discernible; moreover, members of the crew, including the Captain, Commander William McGonagle, testified that the flag was knocked down after the first or second assault.

According to Israeli Chief of Staff Yitzhak Rabin's memoirs, there were standing orders to attack any unidentified vessel near the shore.28 The day fighting began, Israel had asked that American ships be removed from its coast or that it be notified of the precise location of U.S. vessels.29 The Sixth Fleet was moved because President Johnson feared being drawn into a confrontation with the Soviet Union. He also ordered that no aircraft be sent near Sinai.

A CIA report on the incident issued June 13, 1967, also found that an overzealous pilot could mistake the Liberty for an Egyptian ship, the El Quseir. After the air raid, Israeli torpedo boats identified the Liberty as an Egyptian naval vessel. When the Liberty began shooting at the Israelis, they responded with the torpedo attack, which killed 28 of the sailors.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff investigated the communications failure and noted that the Chief of Naval Operations expressed concern about the prudence of sending the Liberty so close to the area of hostilities and four messages were subsequently sent instructing the ship to move farther away from the area of hostilities. The JCS report said the messages were never received because of “a combination of (1) human error, (2) high volume of communications traffic, and (3) lack of appreciation of sense of urgency regarding the movement of the Liberty.” The report also included a copy of a flash cable sent immediately after the attack, which reported that Israel had “erroneously” attacked the Liberty, that IDF helicopters were in rescue operations, and that Israel had sent “abject apologies” and requested information on any other U.S. ships near the war zone.

Initially, the Israelis were terrified that they had attacked a Soviet ship and might have provoked the Soviets to join the fighting.30 Once the Israelis were sure what had happened, they reported the incident to the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv and offered to provide a helicopter for the Americans to fly out to the ship and any help they required to evacuate the injured and salvage the ship. The offer was accepted and a U.S. naval attaché was flown to the Liberty.

The Israelis were “obviously shocked” by the error they made in attacking the ship, according to the U.S. Ambassador in Tel Aviv. In fact, according to a secret report on the 1967 war, the immediate concern was that the Arabs might see the proximity of the Liberty to the conflict as evidence of U.S.-Israel collusion.30a

Many of the survivors of the Liberty remain bitter, and are convinced the attack was deliberate as they make clear on their web site. In 1991, columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak trumpeted their discovery of an American who said he had been in the Israeli war room when the decision was made to knowingly attack the American ship.31 In fact, that individual, Seth Mintz, wrote a letter to the Washington Post on November 9, 1991, in which he said he was misquoted by Evans and Novak and that the attack, was, in fact, a "case of mistaken identity." Moreover, the man who Mintz originally said had been with him, a Gen. Benni Matti, does not exist.

Also, contrary to claims that an Israeli pilot identified the ship as American on a radio tape, no one has ever produced this tape. In fact, the official Israeli Air Force tape clearly established that no such identification of the ship was made by the Israeli pilots prior to the attack. Tapes of the radio transmissions made prior, during and after the attack do not contain any statement suggesting the pilots saw a U.S. flag before the attack. During the attack, a pilot specifically says, “there is no flag on her!” The recordings also indicate that once the pilots became concerned about the identity of the ship, by virtue of reading its hull number, they terminated the attack and they were given an order to leave the area. A transcript of the radio transmissions indicates the entire incident, beginning with the spotting of a mysterious vessel off El Arish and ending with the chief air controller at general headquarters in Tel Aviv telling another controller the ship was “apparently American” took 24 minutes.32 Critics claimed the Israeli tape was doctored, but the National Security Agency of the United States released formerly top secret transcripts in July 2003 that confirmed the Israeli version.

A U.S. spy plane was sent to the area as soon as the NSA learned of the attack on the Liberty and recorded the conversations of two Israeli Air Force helicopter pilots, which took place between 2:30 and 3:37 p.m. on June 8. The orders radioed to the pilots by their supervisor at the Hatzor base instructing them to search for Egyptian survivors from the "Egyptian warship" that had just been bombed were also recorded by the NSA. "Pay attention. The ship is now identified as Egyptian," the pilots were informed. Nine minutes later, Hatzor told the pilots the ship was believed to be an Egyptian cargo ship. At 3:07, the pilots were first told the ship might not be Egyptian and were instructed to search for survivors and inform the base immediately the nationality of the first person they rescued. It was not until 3:12 that one of the pilots reported that he saw an American flag flying over the ship at which point he was instructed to verify if it was indeed a U.S. vessel.33

In October 2003, the first Israeli pilot to reach the ship broke his 36-year silence on the attack. Brig.-Gen. Yiftah Spector, a triple ace, who shot down 15 enemy aircraft and took part in the 1981 raid on the Iraqi nuclear reactor, said he had been told an Egyptian ship was off the Gaza coast. "This ship positively did not have any symbol or flag that I could see. What I was concerned with was that it was not one of ours. I looked for the symbol of our navy, which was a large white cross on its deck. This was not there, so it wasn't one of ours." The Jerusalem Post obtained a recording of Spector's radio transmission in which he said, "I can't identify it, but in any case it's a military ship."34

None of Israel's accusers can explain why Israel would deliberately attack an American ship at a time when the United States was Israel's only friend and supporter in the world. Confusion in a long line of communications, which occurred in a tense atmosphere on both the American and Israeli sides (five messages from the Joint Chiefs of Staff for the ship to remain at least 25 miles — the last four said 100 miles — off the Egyptian coast arrived after the attack was over) is a more probable explanation.

Accidents caused by “friendly fire” are common in wartime. In 1988, the U.S. Navy mistakenly downed an Iranian passenger plane, killing 290 civilians. During the Gulf War, 35 of the 148 Americans who died in battle were killed by “friendly fire.” In April 1994, two U.S. Black Hawk helicopters with large U.S. flags painted on each side were shot down by U.S. Air Force F-15s on a clear day in the “no fly” zone of Iraq, killing 26 people. In April 2002, an American F-16 dropped a bomb that killed four Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan. In fact, the day before the Liberty was attacked, Israeli pilots accidentally bombed one of their own armored columns.35

Retired Admiral, Shlomo Erell, who was Chief of the Navy in Israel in June 1967, told the Associated Press (June 5, 1977): “No one would ever have dreamt that an American ship would be there. Even the United States didn't know where its ship was. We were advised by the proper authorities that there was no American ship within 100 miles.”

Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara told Congress on July 26, 1967: “It was the conclusion of the investigatory body, headed by an admiral of the Navy in whom we have great confidence, that the attack was not intentional.”

In 1987, McNamara repeated his belief that the attack was a mistake, telling a caller on the “Larry King Show” that he had seen nothing in the 20 years since to change his mind that there had been no “cover­up.”36

In January 2004, the State Department held a conference on the Liberty incident and also released new documents, including CIA memos dated June 13 and June 21, 1967, that say that Israel did not know it was striking an American vessel. The historian for the National Security Agency, David Hatch, said the available evidence "strongly suggested" Israel did not know it was attacking a U.S. ship. Two former U.S. officials, Ernest Castle, the United States Naval Attache at the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv in June 1967, who received the first report of the attack from Israel, and John Hadden, then CIA Chief of Station in Tel Aviv, also agreed with the assessment that the attack on the Liberty was a mistake.37

The new documents do not shed any light on the mystery of what the ship was doing in the area or why Israel was not informed about its presence. The evidence suggests the ship was not spying on Israel.

Israel apologized for the tragedy and paid nearly $13 million in humanitarian reparations to the United States and to the families of the victims in amounts established by the U.S. State Department. The matter was officially closed between the two governments by an exchange of diplomatic notes on December 17, 1987.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


lol sorry to say but you are acting like a Ostrich with it's head buried in sand and saying there is no Sun/Moon & Stars. Amusing.

Obama would be SOOOO disappointed with you Israel Bashers. Here we have the President of the United States trying to get Arab/Muslims to get over the past and move forward towards a peaceful future, but all the pro-Arab/Muslim groups in the world (including here on ATS) want to do it dwell on the past and try to create some type of anti-Israel momentum with this incident that occurred over 40 years ago.

Look, during wars mistakes happen. Every so often you hear about "friendly fire" incidents when the US military shoots at other US servicemen accidentally.

Look back at the war in Yugoslavia. NATO accidently bombed the Chinese Embassy. China has "Favorite Nation" status in trade with the US.

As NATO airstrikes against Yugoslavia continued on Monday, relatives of those killed in NATO's mistaken bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade arrived to claim the bodies of their loved ones.


The sad mission took place as protests over the weekend bombing intensified in Beijing and elsewhere.

The Saturday strike killed three Chinese journalists and injured at least 20 at the compound in Yugoslavia's capital.

www.cnn.com...

Stop looking for an excuse to hate Israel, you should be looking at your Arab leaders and ask why they are rolling in the doe while their people live in abject poverty.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I have more respect for you than that flyers.You know the whole *Wipe Israel off the map" is nonsense.He was talking about the regime that governs Israel and said they should vanish from the pages of time,or something like that.Dont have the quote right here.Much like any corrupt,warmongering,racist regime.Would you say you wanted germany wiped of the map because of the nazi's? or just the nazi government.How about the *supposedly* evil commies? Did you say Russia should be wiped of the map? or just the communists (which wasn't communist at all btw) regime? How about America and the Uk right now in this day funding terrorist groups in Iran to topple the *regime*.Seems American and the Uk only dislikes terrorists if they are not working in their favour.Kinda ironic dont you think.





[edit on 9-6-2009 by Solomons]

Originally posted by Zerbst

It should be brought up until someone pays for their crimes.

There is no statute of limitations on real mass murder. Hell, there isn't even one on made up murders either? The door will always be open to investigate the Holohoax. Don't worry, the truth always stands true no matter how many years have gone by!

This thread makes me feel a little sick...

You speak of justice while at the same time claiming the "holohoax" was made up?

reply to post by mrmonsoon


edit to keep my mouth shut.

Come on guys, realize that you can be against the evil government of Israel, and not be Anti-Semitic.

I have nothing against the average Jew. Yet I can tell you that there is a certain amount of sinisterness coming from the Israeli agenda.

You have all heard about the Zoo in Gaza right? Israeli Soldiers EXECUTED the animals there.

Source

Source 2

Quiet Propaganda



[edit on 9-6-2009 by beebs]

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
What I have said 3X is your source is "NOT" valid.

I thought everyone knew that once something is said three times it MUST be true.

Get with the program people.

Vas

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
We can believe nothing from Iran's "terrorist times".

We know it is state run and has been proven time and again to print nothing but lies.

Please people, use a "REAL" source and don't be a mindless mouth piece for Iran's mulla's.

Why would you think the Iranians through their state-funded media might want to disparage America?

I love people who try to use PressTV as a reputable source.

Press TV is an English language international television news channel which is funded by the Iranian government, based in Tehran and broadcast in English on a round-the-clock schedule. It has 26 international correspondents and more than 500 staff around the world.

Source.

A few people on this thread should be cringing with embarrassment at their total ignorance of an event that was in all probability a false flag event perpetrated by our 'supposed' ally - Israel.

They had just got themselves into a war with three countries. Their only ally - the US - declared its neutrality in relation to the war, which meant that if Israel couldn't pull a rabbit out of the hat, they were going to be fighting the war all by themselves.

The attack on the liberty was in all probability, a deliberate action by our Israeli friends to convince us that we had a darn good reason to get involved and support them.

Gulf of Tonkin anyone???

Here is a great 6 part video of testimonies from the crew of the attack, included in those testimonies are 5 different medal of Honor winners and their versions.

www.liveleak.com... part 1
www.liveleak.com... part 2
www.liveleak.com... part 3
www.liveleak.com... part 4
www.liveleak.com... part 5
www.liveleak.com... part 6

This is all told by the SURVIVORS of the story.

It is every Americans duty to watch the total 60 minutes of truth. This should not ever be forgotten.

A mistake usually does not last for 2 hours. Especially one that involves all branches of the military from Israel. They had their Army, navy and AirForce involved in this heinous ordeal.

Mistake or not (not), you do not shoot at life rafts unless you want no witnesses left.

Many years ago, I posted about this subject. Here is the link to that thread and the story I related:

USS Liberty Thread

Originally posted by finemanm

Look, during wars mistakes happen. Every so often you hear about "friendly fire" incidents when the US military shoots at other US servicemen accidentally.

1. Ships fly colors. (flags)

2. The USS Liberty was in international waters when it was attacked (neutral area).

3. The USS Liberty was a NEUTRAL ship, it was a research vessel.


Unintentional friendly fire in combat is an understandable, albeit grievous, occurrence. A combined arms offensive against a neutral vessel in neutral waters is NOT 'friendly fire'. It is murder.

reply to post by drwizardphd


And how is that different than firing at people wearing the SAME uniform as you?

March 22: A British Royal Air Force (RAF) Tornado jet is accidentally shot down by a US Patriot missile. The Tornado's two crew are killed.

March 24: Two British soldiers are killed when their tank is mistakenly targeted by another British tank in southern Iraq.

March 27: 37 US Marines are injured when US troops mistakenly fire at each other near the southern city of Nasiriyah.

March 28: A British soldier is killed and four others are injured in the region of Basra when a US A-10 ground attack aircraft fires on them.

April 2: An F-18 US fighter jet is downed, probably by a US Patriot missile. The pilot is reported missing.

April 3: A US serviceman mistaken for an Iraqi soldier is shot dead by his own troops in central Iraq.

April 6: 18 Kurdish fighters are killed and 45 wounded near Arbil in northern Iraq when US aircraft mistakenly bomb a joint US-Kurdish convoy.

According to the website of the American War Library, just over half of the coalition troops killed or injured during the 1991 Gulf War were victims of friendly fire incidents.

www.smh.com.au...

[sarcasm]Yea, mistakes don't happen, its impossible for the Israeli military to make a mistake fourty years ago.[/sarcasm]