7 Things that Are Killing You! Part 2, page 2

reply to post by Dredulous

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I thought my point was obvious - STATISTICALLY speaking, with the increase in life expectancy it is easier to support a conclusion that things do us good, than do us harm.

If these things are truly poison, taken as a whole, we are doing surprisingly well in the health department considering the vast amounts of these items that people consume every day.

Originally posted by king9072
Aluminum

Though not classified as a heavy metal such a lead, it can be dangerous in high levels. Especially since it can accumulate in ones body, the brain being the worst place it can find itself.

This is an excellent topic to discuss.

However you seem to have left out Mercury, Hg., which is the most poisonous non-radioactive element. Principle source of mercury is Mercury silver amalgam fillings and fish, especially large fish.

Aluminum is a toxic metal.

Even small amounts make me feel ill. Aluminum pots are banned in Europe.

"Aluminum has been exempted from tesitng for safety by the FDA under a convoluted logic wherein it is classified as GRAS. (Generally Regarded As Safe.) It has never been tested by the FDA on its safety and there are NO restrictions whatever on the amount or use of aluminum.

There are over 2000 references in the National Library of Medicine on adverse effects of aluminum. The following were extracted to provide a small sample of the range of toxicity of aluminum.
www.hbci.com...

Buddy Ebsen , known for his role in the Beverly Hillbillies was to have played the Tin Man in the Wizard of Oz movie. He was painted with aluminum paint for the role and became so sick he had to be replaced.
It is amazing that poisons (Al,Hg,Fluoride) are allowed to be deliberately put into our food,water and bodies. Even more amazing is that people actually demand to have them put in,(Flouride).

The Romans put Lead in their wine to make it sweeter for about 2,000 years. Lead solder in copper pipes was only recently banned in about 1985 in the USA.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by RRokkyy]

Originally posted by Retseh
reply to post by Dredulous

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I thought my point was obvious - STATISTICALLY speaking, with the increase in life expectancy it is easier to support a conclusion that things do us good, than do us harm.

If these things are truly poison, taken as a whole, we are doing surprisingly well in the health department considering the vast amounts of these items that people consume every day.

You make it sound like we are at the pinnacle of human life span. Well, were not. And if it wasn't for our toxic society with epidemic cancer rates, our life could be much longer. The logic that use is completely ignorant.

Thanks for adding RRockky, as usual I could have gone much more in depth on all topics. But I had I think 13 word pages so I figured I would cut it short. IT would be nice if ATS allowed editing after 12 hours cause I would like to add, and correct some things in the OP.

Originally posted by king9072


You make it sound like we are at the pinnacle of human life span. Well, were not. And if it wasn't for our toxic society with epidemic cancer rates, our life could be much longer. The logic that use is completely ignorant.

The logic I use is accurate and well informed.

The accepted standard in this area is the Fries Hypothesis which dictates a human maximum mean average lifespan of 85 years with an SD of 7 years.

"If most humans on average are capable of living to 100, there should be little evidence of significant functional decline and pathology among people living to the average lifespans currently attained (75-80 years). As they demonstrate, however, there is substantial decline in functioning of all human biological systems by age 80."

Link here:

www.prb.org...

You'll also see that the increase in life expectancy has been almost exactly linear for the past 160 years, these "poisons" have had zero effect over the last 20 years.

If any of what you are trying to peddle here as fact is true, show me the mortality statistics from consuming MSG and artifical sweeteners.

While we are in the realm of consumer product based scaremongering, you can add in the number of children killed by Chinese toys tainted with lead, and the number of brain tumors caused by cell phones.

It's all over-sensitized BS that people with a lower IQ just gobble up whole.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by Retseh]

reply to post by Retseh

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It's a complete wives tale that no one lived past 40 in past centuries. The fact is that many did, some even over 80 and there's lots of information available via google search.

What is true of the saying, was that the average life span was around 40. This was because of the rampant malnutrition, diseases that weren't cured till the 20 century, constant war, and improper medical practices, extremely high infant mortality rate, as well as many other causes.

So if you followed the life of 100 people from birth, your right, on average most would be dead by 40. But that doesn't mean all, some would live much, much longer.

Once the 20th century rolled around, we started to see the steady increase as the infant mortality rate started to drop, as well as the rates of almost all other causes of premature death of the time.

This is where your linear increase of human life span comes from, as we started to learn what was prematurely killing us, our average life span grew. Now the interesting part, is that almost all the causes of premature death back then have been solved, and on average the life span of people has approximately doubled in the last century.

But, we still have our own set of new premature killers, such as Cancer, AIDS, Heart Disease, Obesity, etc etc.

If those industries weren't so profitable, that being the Cancer INDUSTRY, the AIDS INDUSTRY, the FOOD INDUSTRY, we would be eliminating those causes of death. And if such a feat could be accomplished over the next 50 years, again we would see a rapid incline of the life span of modern humans - just as we did at after ending the causes of premature deaths 100-150 years ago.

Thus, to claim that these known TOXIC chemicals, are in fact the cause of humanities longer life span, is ludicrous at best, and highly ignorant at worst.


[edit on 9-6-2009 by king9072]

reply to post by Retseh

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We are quite resilient Ill give you that, but we are also evolving and adapting as a species, a lot of these things have been proven to be quite bad for us. Its also a philosophical fallacy to state that if these things are not bad for us then they must be good. But some are not as bad as others Ill give you that. On the opposite end Im not in league with some of the hippies on here either, thats for sure. I really notice the negative effects of MSG and to me thats the big one, also something that must be taken into account is the reason that life expectancies are going up is that people are more informed as to what is bad for them. As a side note I believe the Japanese and Chinese lived to there 80s and some times to 100 due to a lack of impurities and healthy diet.


[edit on 9-6-2009 by Dredulous]

Originally posted by anton74
Not trying to be rude but, could you come up with a better source for Vaccine death numbers?

MSG, Asian countries have some of the highest life expectancy rates in the world and they eat MSG like Americans eat sugar. Can someone in here explain that?

MSG Was actually covered in Part 1, but since you asked ill quickly answer. First off, the main issue with MSG is the adverse reactions, which effect an estimated 30%+ of its consumers, though its symptoms are often misdiagnosed.

In Asia it is true that their manufactured food does contain MSG, just as it does here. But Asia has several key differences from the US:

- A more active lifestyle, people bike and walk, work more hours and work harder than average Americans.
- Most Asians do not consume manufactured food for every meal, thus, likely get a smaller dose of MSG through out the day. They eat rice with practically every meal, and every Asian I have ever known has fresh rice in the cooker practically 24 hours a day.
- They also cook home meals more than Americans, if they opt to personally add MSG, then sure, but not all do. Where as the American flip side is different considering each manufactured meal in a day contains it.
- Most Asians have a higher metabolism for a variety of reasons, than that of an average sedentary American. Thus, there they're less worried about obesity, which on it's own creates a multitude of problems.


The point here is not how many deaths, but how it can and does degrade quality of life for millions of people. Additionally, it's now coming to light that it appears Asians haven't escaped its wrath either.

Source
Controversy surrounding food additive E621, otherwise known as monosodium glutamate - a common flavour enhancer - was re-ignited this week when a Japanese researcher suggested that consuming too much of the ingredient could make you go blind.

Researchers at Hirosaki University in Japan have found that rats fed on diets high in MSG suffer vision loss and have thinner retinas. Glutamate is an amino acid that acts as a neurotransmitter. It has already been shown to cause nerve damage in experiments where it is injected directly into the eye.

They then continue to reaffirm some of my prior sources...

Source
Its use has become controversial in the past 30 years because of reports of adverse reactions in people who have eaten foods that contain MSG. According to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA ), research on the role of glutamate - a group of chemicals that includes MSG - in the nervous system has also raised questions about the chemical's safety.

According to lead researcher Hiroshi Ohguro, his is the first study to show that eye damage can be caused by eating food containing MSG. A report in the New Scientist this week explains that in the study, rats were fed three different diets for six months, containing either high or moderate amounts of MSG, or none. In rats on the high-MSG diet, some retinal nerve layers thinned by as much as 75 per cent. And tests that measured retinal response to light showed they could not see as well. Rats on the moderate diet also had damage, to a lesser extent.

The researchers found high concentrations of MSG in the vitreous fluid, which bathes the retina. MSG binds to receptors on retinal cells, destroying them and causing secondary reactions that reduce the ability of the remaining cells to relay electrical signals.

Ever noticed how many Asians wear glasses? Or better yet, ever met an Asian that doesn't?

So I think there's enough science from enough sources to back the claim that it is not a safe additive. And if its only a "Flavor Enhancer" then it's not even NECESSARY, even if it were deemed only slightly hazardous.


As far as Vaccines, the governments own reporting on how many lawsuits they underwent because of adverse effects from Vaccines, isn't quite good enough for you?

How bout we add a few more?
The hepatitis B vaccine has been linked to immunological and neurological disorders.
Annual Flu Deaths: The Big Lie - Flu Vaccination
Comparison of Adverse effects after immunization
Almost 3000 UK Adverse reactions after HPV vaccination
The HPV Vaccine: Herd immunity or Human Sacrifice?


I would really appreciate those who counter claim to first, read every word I wrote about the topic, don't read one paragraph then hit post reply if you're going to discuss that topic. Read the entire thing, then start researching, don't just launch claims without providing merit.

[edit on 10-6-2009 by king9072]

[edit on 10-6-2009 by king9072]

Aluminium. ALUMINIUM! I have read only one text describing the dangers of aluminium: He's Not Autistic, But... (by Tenna Merchent). Finally. Some else knows about it. (I have been looking in the right places)
A corollary: Asparatane. The site with the microwaved water experiment also has a page on the World's Best Ant Poison. Asparatane. Funny how the strangest of things can make you realise... everything.

ASPARTAME

Source
Where did aspartame come from? It was first developed by the pharmaceutical company G.D. Searle. But Searle had difficulty getting their product approved by the Food and Drug Administration, the federal agency responsible for making sure our food and drugs are safe: Apparently, the monkeys and mice the substance was tested on developed brain lesions, tumors, and seizures, and even died from it. The company's applications for approval were rejected for 16 years, but they persisted in offering their "proof" that aspartame was safe until the FDA finally asked the Department of Justice to prosecute G.D. Searle for submitting fraudulent test data in their efforts to get the substance approved. (An FDA senior toxicologist, Dr. Adrian Gross, once told Congress, "Beyond a shadow of a doubt aspartame triggers brain tumors.")

But then G.D. Searle, producer of aspartame, made Donald Rumsfeld its CEO-yes, that Donald Rumsfeld. When Ronald Reagan took office and brought Rumsfeld with him as part of his transition team, a new FDA commissioner was appointed immediately. In one of his first acts as head of the federal agency, the new FDA commissioner approved aspartame, the artificial sweetener made by the company that Donald Rumsfeld was now the head of, over the objections of the FDA scientific board.

And here's a strange bit of trivia: When it looked like aspartame would be approved later on for use in carbonated beverages, the National Soft Drink Association itself objected, saying it wouldn't be safe because aspartame is very unstable in liquid form and breaks down into, among other things, formaldehyde. Monsanto bought G.D. Searle and Co. in 1985, and the NutraSweet Company operated as part of Monsanto until 2000, when Monsanto sold it to J.W. Childs Equity Partners, where it remains today.

And in all this time, the FDA has compiled a list of 92 symptoms associated with aspartame consumption, including nausea, dizziness, blindness, deafness, weight gain, and even death. And aspartame is still here, and it's showing up in more and more products.

reply to post by king9072

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Great list- and very important- thank you.

Wanted to add one- from research experience:

EDTA: Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid.
(here'a Wiki link to chemical structure for my fellow organic chem geeks):
en.wikipedia.org...

A lot of people believe in "chelation therapy": that is, using chemicals that attach to, and remove heavy metals and other toxins from their systems. Some of them are valid- some are extraordinarily dangerous. Unfortunately, EDTA chelation therapy is a huge craze- and here's why NO ONE should use it:

It chelates (or bind to and removes) Zinc from the body; particulalry from those proteins that use zinc as part of their tertiary, or 3-dimensional structure (which allows them to be functional).

One of these proteins is p53. We've all read about it relative to cancer- it's part of many transcription factors. p53 is a protein that sits on the genome- on an oncogene (a coding segment that turns on and off a signal to have the region read, and expressed). In p53 there are 4 zinc atoms, which allow p53 to maintain its structure and function. When one takes EDTA internally or transdermally (moisturizers, etc.), it pulls the zinc out of p53 (among thousands of other vital proteins), and causes p53 to denature- or loose structure (and, thereby, function). p53 is the reason most oncogenes (genes that turn on and off cancer) stay in the "off" position. Loose p53 and millions of oncogenes may be expressed-i.e., cancer is "turned on" via the transcription factor with which p53 works, and the person eating or wearing EDTA gets cancer!!!!

Moral is: don't get EDTA anywhere near you- throw away personal products that contain it- shampoos, body products, face creams, etc., as it can be transdermal. Don't take it internally- ever! It's one other way to keep cancers out of your life.

Peace,
cultureD

reply to post by king9072

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Aspartame is now made almost entirely by Monsanto- right next to the Zyklon B herbicides they learned to make from the Nazi scientists at IG Farben in Poland.

It is a POTENT neurotoxin.

Want to prove it? Open a packet of Nutra-Sweet and dump it on an ant colony or a hornet's nest. They all die.

Originally posted by CultureD
reply to post by king9072

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Aspartame is now made almost entirely by Monsanto- right next to the Zyklon B herbicides they learned to make from the Nazi scientists at IG Farben in Poland.

It is a POTENT neurotoxin.

Want to prove it? Open a packet of Nutra-Sweet and dump it on an ant colony or a hornet's nest. They all die.

J.W. Childs owns Nutrasweet, not Monsanto. Although Monsanto did.

reply to post by king9072

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You're making your own agenda out of nothing that is based on any scientific or empirical facts - I come across a lot of that in here.

The Fries hypothesis basically states that no matter what you do, the human body is not engineered to last beyond a mean maximum of 85 years. That's not a conspiracy, it's a biological certainty.

It's not a case of toxins, or AIDS, or cancer - the human physiology simply does not support significant life extensions beyond that point.

Anyway, to keep this brief, if these products are such killers, I once again ask you to show me the mortality statistics, otherwise it's just yet more scaremongering.

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