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Gasoline Versus Alcohol

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posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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Interesting comments on gasoline vs alcohol:

Video:
www.youtube.com...


Facts: Scientific and historical about gasoline and alcohol

1. The original automobiles ran on alcohol because when they were invented gasoline was not available.

2. Rockefeller spent $4 million (that we know of) to promote Prohibition, a ban on alcohol manufacturing in the US that started in 1919 just as the car industry was taking off.

3. When Prohibition was lifted in 1933, gasoline stations were ubiquitous and most engines ran on gasoline only.

4. Alcohol can be manufactured locally and on a community level from renewable plant material for $1 per gallon.

5. The growing of plant material for alcohol would have no effect on the price of food.

6. The growing of plants for fuel would more than neutralize the carbon created by burning alcohol for fuel.

7. In Brazil, over 50% of new cars sold can already run on 100% alcohol.

8. Producing alcohol from plant material is incredibly energy efficient.

9. The oil companies aggressively promote garbage science to deceive the public into believing that alcohol fuels: a) will cause starvation, are uneconomical, and c) are net polluters.

10. Gasoline is a high toxic material.

11. It is entirely unneeded to fuel our cars.

12. Oil companies like Chevron have pressured PBS, commercial TV networks and other news media to keep this basic information from the public for decades - and the censorship continues to this day.

www.permaculture.com...

 
Mod Note: Starting A New Thread – Please Review This Link

[edit on Mon Jun 8 2009 by Jbird]




posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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We use alcohol in the race car. Couldn't possibly give a an mpg rating, as it being run in a 396, on a dirt oval track. But, I can tell you that it is just a bit cheaper than gasoline. I paid $11-$12 the other day for a 5 gallon jug, so about $2.40 per gallon, whereas gas is about $2,84 right now. It seems that it burns cleaner, but we run straight off of the headers, and it will burn your eyes after a while. Through a regular exhaust system, I don't know.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12

Facts: Scientific and historical about gasoline and alcohol
1. The original automobiles ran on alcohol because when they were invented gasoline was not available.



One problem with that quote.

Fact "1." Is bogus
It was available well before the first automobile was around and it was not "Invented" It's a by-product. My 2 Cents.

Source

Karl Friedrich Benz (1844-1929) 1885/86 GASOLINE / First true automobile. Gasoline automobile powered by an internal combustion engine: three wheeled, Four cycle, engine and chassis form a single unit. Germany Patent DRP No. 37435


History of Gasoline

Gasoline was not invented, it is a natural by-product of the petroleum industry, kerosene being the principal product. Gasoline is produced by distillation, the separating of the volatile, more valuable fractions of crude petroleum. However, what was invented were the numerous processes and agents needed to improve the quality of gasoline making it a better commodity.


Gasoline

During the Franco-Prussian War (1870–71), pétrole was stockpiled in Paris for use against a possible German-Prussian attack on the city. Later in 1871, during the revolutionary Paris Commune, rumours spread around the city of pétroleuses, women using bottles of petrol to commit arson against city buildings.



Edit to add the rest of the proposed scenario may have some merit and I find it plausible..


[edit on 8-6-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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Alcohol is far better for everything/body. It burns completely and at a higher rate, whereas gasoline burns at a lower rate and only is about 20-30% efficent. Thus leaving all the carbon in the engine to cause wear and friction, not to mention the pollution.....
Each and every person can start their own distilleries with a permit that is free and the government sub's the production of up to 5000 gallons per year (which is the limit of a personal/hobby distillery). The false rumor of using crops for alcohol is that it takes away from food production...BOGUS.
The corn used is not the editable type and is not the only source. In fact, it is one of the most costly choice. Seaweed, desert plants, potatoes, yams, and the list goes on.
And the idea that we need to adapt vechicles to alcohol is another BOGUS statement. Most vehicles in production prior to the move to alcohol can run on anywhere from 50-100% alcohol without or very inexpensive modifacations. So once again thank TPTB for making our lives so F-ing complicated.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by ufoptics
And the idea that we need to adapt vechicles to alcohol is another BOGUS statement. Most vehicles in production prior to the move to alcohol can run on anywhere from 50-100% alcohol without or very inexpensive modifacations. So once again thank TPTB for making our lives so F-ing complicated.


We can run pump gas in the 396, 355, 383, 406 engines that we use for racing, we would just lose power in doing so. And we use a heavier oil, for a better lubrication of seals against the alcohol, and the 7k rpms we are turning. Funny thing is, we never exceed 160F temps, at idle or full throttle.



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Alchol in the form of ethanol, which is the type being pushed by the green movement contains much less energy per unit than gasoline, it takes approximately 25% more ethanol than gasoline to produce the same heat output or work.
Methanol is more potent than gasoline as far as energy output per gallon but is much more expensive to produce than gasoline or ethanol. This is the type of alchol generally used in racing, especially drag racing.
Do not confuse octane rating with energy content as octane rating has nothing to due with energy content, i.e. the 92 premium gasoline you can buy does not contain any more bang for the buck than plain 87 octane regular. I mention this because some of you may have heard than ethanol has octane rating of about 110 vs. 87 for regular gas. The octance rating is the fuels resistance to detonation or self igition resulting in explosion in the combustion chamber rather than a controlled burn which results in pinging or knocking. Octane is lesser known as anti-knock rating which is the accurate definition.
Currently ethanol can only be wholesaled at $1.00 per gal due to government subsdidy of such, with out taxpayer money being dumped in ethanol production from corn is a break even enterprise at best. It is being produced because big brother FED has required it for use in gasoline in emmission non-attainment areas, as 15% alchol lowers emmission levels in gasoline engines by a slight amount.
And here is the conspiracy about that, the amount of emmission per gallon is offset by the fuel mileage loss experienced by diluting the gasoline with ethanol. This is fact, your vehicle gets about 5% less fuel mileage on E15 than if you get straight up gasoline. E85, which is 85% ethanol makes for a great hot rod fuel, but in your daily driver will cut your fuel mileage by as much as 30%. So for those of you in the great US midwest where E85 may be 10 or 15% cheaper than gasoline don't buy into it, you are still losing 10 to 15% at that cheaper rate due to mileage losses.
My 0.02 worth, maybe 0.025....



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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......... and all this time, reading this thread, I was thinking we were talking about ethyl alcohol - ethanol. Y'know......... you don't need plant material to make ethanol....... I mean, you could ferment SOCKS and create ethanol.
Any fermentation that uses sugar(s) and yeast -- even ambient yeasts will result in a solution of not more than 15% ethanol.

The industrial manner of producing ethanol is an introduced hydration of ethylene......... cheaper for big industry, but for us regular mooks, any fermented sugar results in a "wine" [ew! sock wine]. With a fractionating still, a person can draw off first the acetones, then keep the good stuff, then discard the fusel oils and other "tails".

Or so I've heard. *cough*



posted on Jun, 8 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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There are pluses and minuses to each.

Reasons why methanol is good.

-It is 122 octane so you can have an engine with a very high compression ratio, making tons of serious horsepower.

-You can take an engine that is running on gasoline, and switch to methanol and gain 24% more power.

-If you take that engine and up the compression you can gain even more power.

-It likes running with turbos and superchargers, and keeps things nice and cool.

-It produces very little heat when it burns, so you can save weight in the cooling system and have a minimal radiator setup.

-It smells really good when it burns, lol.

-Cheaper than gas.

Bad things about methanol.

-It is corrosive, and eats internal engine components.

-It is less efficient than gas, and fuel consumption is higher.

-It burns with invisible flames, so you don't even know you are on fire until it's too late.



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by downtown436
 


I have a 2005 Grand Prix with a supercharger, what would happen if I ran methanol in it? Or to even mix it with pump gas? I can get methanol cheaper than gas right now in my area.



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Thanks for the replies


Slayer,appreciate the clarification - it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if various oil lobbyists/conglomerates have attempted to supress this information down the years.
I suspect they've done the same with the versatile (and much more environmentaly friendly) hemp plant and various other products.
Cheers

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



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