Chinese want US bonds issued in yuan rather than dollars

China wants and believes that they are going to be the new superpower.
www.independent.co.uk...


Many people are giving this to the Chinese believing that they are the key to new economic development.

China has been the only nation who has boasted that it can field a two million man army, precisely as the Bible predicted they would 2,000 years ago. And today, China has been playing a major role in the world. And moreover, China has been moving upon the world stage and aligning itself with the Biblical scenario predicted for it. Despite a pledge by Beijing, China has continued to provide missile help to Iran and Syria. U.S. officials said. These are the nations the Bible predicted China would ally itself with against Israel.
The officials said Chinese companies are providing components and technology to Scud-class programs in both Damascus and Teheran. These include the sale of missile engines and weapons of mass technology to Iran. The State Department has identified China's Jiangsu Yongli Chemicals and Technology Import and Export Corp. as a leading exporter to Teheran.

Jiangsu has already appeared on the State Department list of companies sanctioned by the United States because missile and WMD exports. The list bans the U.S. government or companies from dealing with sanctioned firms. Jiangsu was also identified as a supplier of missile and WMD components for Syria military programs. Syria has obtained Chinese helop for its development of Scud-class missiles. Even though U.S. administration officials said China pledged to end missile help to such countries as Iran and Syria. But by late last year, U.S. officials said the pledge had been violated.

www.cephas-library.com...

FROM APRIL 2006

China is rising fast and is expected to eclipse the United States economically in the future - its gross domestic product is tipped to overtake that of America by 2045.

While Mr Bush has only given Mr Hu an hour of his time for a state lunch, the global balance of power is changing and in future meetings, the Chinese will set the timetable.

The rise of China is posing awkward questions for the US, along with the realisation that its days as the world's economic superpower are numbered.

Some analysts see America entering a period of "managed decline" not unlike that which Britain has experienced since the end of the Second World War and the end of empire

www.independent.co.uk...

So back in 2006 we gave China an hour of our time!!!!
Now we send someone over to China on a weekly basis....Timmy Gunther, Treasonous Nancy Pelosi, Clintons, and now we are thinking about sending in Al Gore to North Korea....lol...that is funny ..Al Gore and Kim!

Anyhow...look at how are relations have shifted with China since the Nixon years. Nixon had a girl...Jane Dixon I think was her name who predicted that Nixon's Chinese visit (not the girl in San Francisco) but the one prepared by Kissinger when he flew in from India on that c130 who told everybody how important Nixon's little Ping Pong game with China was. lol

We go from not trading with the commy pinkos (feeling at the time in AMerica...60..70's) to China becoming the second biggest trading partner...and first if you count all the Chinese goods coming from Canada to the US...lol

The times have changed.

I bet Lemay and MacArthur are turning over in their graves.

The Chinese look at the US as one big Wal-Mart....a place to sell and get rid of junk. Wal-Mart has better relations with China then Obama does. lol

Beijing's favorite capitalist

According to the nostrums of Reagan Age America, the current Chinese system -- in equal measure capitalist and authoritarian -- cannot actually exist. Capitalism spread democracy, we were told ad nauseam by a steady stream of conservative hacks, free-trade apologists, government officials and American companies doing business in China.

Given enough Starbuckses and McDonald's, provided with sufficient consumer choice, China would surely become a democracy.

And yet, it hasn't. And last week, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner traveled there to assure its government that America won't permit China's massive investment in our government's notes to diminish in value -- even if that means we have to cut back on needed public programs.

In explaining China's rise and America's decline, historians may well note that capitalism -- American capitalism, anyway -- far from spreading democracy, actually has played a key role in transforming China into an authoritarian superpower.

The transfer of manufacturing from the United States to China -- driven by the rise of mega-retailers such as Wal-Mart that have been able to enforce a regime of low wages all along their global supply chains -- has diminished our middle class and expanded theirs.
War is being fought on the economic front...China has been buying up all sorts of goodies in Central Asia...Caspian area...etc....I guy on BBC Hardtalk had said that the Chinese are very very aggressive winning almost all Central Asian contracts as well as heavy in Africa...Uganda and Nigeria etc.

Listen up....Australia put the breaks on a few days ago with that big mining deal ....we are talking billions in investment...put to a stop

www.pittsburghlive.com...
.

www.dailyreckoning.com.au...

"Rio Tinto is like a dishonourable woman," read a widely published Xinhua story this weekend. "Once she loved the money in Chinalco's pocket but she actually did not love the man himself. Now she is breaking faith and kicking down the ladder."

This definitely sounds like a spurned lover. But what will the revenge be? Let's hope she doesn't have a knife. Or a blue water navy. Or an inter-continental ballistic missile.

Alas, for the new capitalists of the Chinese state this is a lesson that capitalism is not a romantic business. It makes for realistic bedfellows, not true love. Chinese deal makers may currently view the Australian resource sector has a harlot or a shameless "lady of the night" that has turned down a helpful offer the minute something more lucrative came around.

But that is assuming Chinalco's intentions with Rio were always honourable. And that is ignoring the fact that the "white knight" offer, made in Rio's hour of need, was also extremely favourable to Chinalco, given Rio's weakness at the time. But let's not take sides in this lover's quarrel, shall we?

www.dailyreckoning.com.au...




We are about to see some very major power plays begin within NATO alliances as this reminds everybody who cares to READ and remember the events leading up to WW2 and WW1....namely Germany gaining huge amounts of power both in Asia...Ottoman empire as well as with resources they went after in Sweden, Finland and Norway. (iron ore)

Swedish iron ore was an important economic factor in the European Theatre of World War II. Both the Allies and the Third Reich were keen on the control of the mining district in northernmost Sweden, surrounding the mining towns of Gällivare and Kiruna. The importance of this issue increased after other sources were cut off from Germany by the British sea blockade during the Second Battle of the Atlantic. Both the planned Anglo-French support of Finland in the Winter War, and the following German occupation of Denmark and Norway (Operation Weserübung) were to large extent motivated by the wish to deny their respective enemies iron critical for wartime production of steel.

en.wikipedia.org...(WWII)

So I hope you follow my logic.

Up until a few days ago we pursued economic partnerships with China, we still are, yet as we now observe in Australia we see that some NATO countries are beginning to turn the resource taps off!!!!

What does this signify?

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

edit...for spelling and froth

[edit on 9-6-2009 by whiteraven]

Actually this was coming for a long time, as the nations treasury keeps printing money our treasury bonds are nothing but worthless so is expected that other nations that are nice enough to buy our debt wants their investments to be in the currency that worst more than ours and right now theirs is pretty secure while ours is not.

The way China is growing and becoming a economic superpower anybody should benefit from accumulating their currency for the future.

Originally posted by camain
This is coming on the hills of the treasury still needing 1.3 trillion for obamas growth plan. I agree with the statement above this is what powerful countries have done to 3rd world nations to destroy there economy and to make there economy subservient to them.

I think what will happen is that the U.S. will do it, then after they get the cash, go to war with china. They will then clear the debt during war, stating that because of the war status, no debt obligations will be fulfilled and declared null and void. This will allow us to to wipe the books clean with them. All future debt after that still be done in the dollar. Additionally us going to war would serve as an example to the arab states as well as europe and russia. The only caviat is if all the countries, all at once started to demand this.

If that happened, then we would be forced instead of war, into bankruptcy. That is a scary situation, not only for us, but for the world as a whole.

just my opinion, but I don't see the u.s. accepting this, and I don't see countries like Japan, and Saudi Arabia accepting it. This would wipe them out financially.

That's pretty much how I see it.

China waited and watched as the US handed them the means of production, manufacturing, in exchange for their cheap labour.

Suppressing the value of their currency is reminiscent of a Chinese philosopher, I think H'sun Tze, who said something like "When weak act strong. When strong act weak."

In the big crunch how powers will align is the question. Russia is an inevitable adversary of the US, but I see their economic and military clout as overestimated. They are not able to effectively take on the US in conventional warfare. But unconventional ...

Europe is the big economic conglomerate but dependent on the US militarily. Ditto Japan, Korea, etc.

The Arab states are a wild card. Their lack of self-defense is a real issue. Remember that's what brought the US into the region for the Gulf War.

China may be able to ultimately severely compromise the US economically, and maybe with a combination of conventional and cyber war strategies if it becomes confrontational.

How strong is the US really? I think the resilience of their economy, military potential and logistics may be under-estimated. Popular to dismiss them as finished. They still hold more cards than anyone else.

Mike

There's absolutely no way the US would issue bonds in a currency they have no control over, in this case, the renminbi.

In fact, I'd really like to see Mr Guo's original statement in entirety and in its original language. It seems very unlikely that he'd say such a thing. Smells like disinfo.(the article is from the Telegraph)

I understand the Chinese concern though. With the US dollar purchasing power going ever lower, the Chinese are most probably presently buying US bonds at a lost. (at least nominally)

It's funny that someone called the Renminbi, "monopoly money" when the present US government already has a deficit of over a trillion dollar! Not even monopoly money is printed in such quantity.



[edit on 9/6/09 by ConspiracyNut23]

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23


Americans bond market is in trouble the Bernanke strategy to issue and sell bonds in the last few months has created a mess, the bonds are nothing but worthless because Americas deficit is becoming unsustainable.

So now two things may happen, inflation due to all that money that the Treasury has been printing out of thin air or a bond market crash.

Trust me China is very well aware of what can happen with America very soon.

BTW this for anybody that has been following the economic crisis and what is going on with the Fed the government and the treasury, if you are not well informed then this thread can help understand from where China is coming now demanding bonds to be issue in their currency.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also China has been selling bonds on their own for a while also with very much success, so this is becoming a competition.

Originally posted by redhatty
If the US .gov agrees to this then I have only one piece of advice

Buy more guns & ammo

The Ticker Guy talks about this today

He says it better than I can

Typical American red neck approach. You still think Aliens will land in America? For some reason you are all self centred and American cantered.

The world does not revolve around America.

Yes ...China in Hong kong are trying to create a new Debt Marketplace.

They are meeting with some success but the hair of India is standing on edge.

I want to remind everybody of the might of the Indian Army. The Indians were often forced into wars via the British Empire in much the same way blacks were forced into slavery...they were rounded up...trained and shipped to a theatre with barely a whisper. The Indians adapted and now have developed into a fierce force who imo are among the best in the world.

Anyhow....as this new debt market in China begins to develop we will see new alliances being forged, some already are forged, as resources come into focus and we wake up and see that China will soon be holding a Royal Flush.

India, Britain, Canada, Australia will begin to seek partners as will the US in this upcoming war with China. (economic)

If at any time we see that China is about to lay down the cards and call in the chips we will draw our guns.

The time is short.

I wonder if MacArthur and Patton , even with all of the faults they displayed were right.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by whiteraven]

reply to post by zorkthegreat

The world does not revolve around America.

Hey Zork....a few years ago it did....but now the world is not to sure who to revolve around.

reply to post by marg6043

Thanks for the link and info. (star ). I'll check it out. (although 380+ pages is on the longish side...)

Trust me China is very well aware of what can happen with America very soon.

If I'm not mistaken, China still has to purchase US dollars in order to buy oil on international markets. (although I'm sure they can bypass this to a certain point in areas such as Burma)

So, as long as the US (and cie.) control most of the world's oil supply, the Chinese will be forced to buy US dollars. There is no strategic advantage for the US to issue bonds in Renminbi.



[edit on 9/6/09 by ConspiracyNut23]

reply to post by silent thunder


the US could find itself in a situation where debt becomes unpayable.


actually our debt is unpayable because the dollar bills represent debt and not wealth. we owe the federal reserve back all those dollars plus interest. where do we get the dollars to pay the interest?

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23


China is also investing large amounts of money in Iran oil industry. Since 2003 China has been doing this in change for gas.

So I don't think that China actually will be in need of oil thanks to Iran. Until recently Japan and China were number 2 and 3 on oil importers and both buy from Iran, now Iran wants China to be their number one buyer.

Also for the past few years China has been buying all kind of natural resources money can buy as they have plenty of US dollars to do that.

The are buying from all over the world.

Actually if you look at China from the point of view of savvy investors getting ready for what the future will bring they are very well prepare right now.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by ColdSteel


Some are predicting that US will end up defaulting on their debt, while this liberate US from any debt responsibility it will put the nation in a precarious situation with our trading partners.

reply to post by ColdSteel


Lincoln Greenbacks?

The theory is that the economy will produce goods and exploit natural resources allowing us to pay back previous issues of money.

Of course, as you pointed out this is impossible.

Even if gold or even corporate bonds were used as collateral to print new notes, these new notes themselves would also carry an interest.

I've asked Jim Marrs a similar question in his ATS podcasts.



[edit on 9/6/09 by ConspiracyNut23]

Originally posted by Alternative
Why flag and not comment?

Anyways, yes, this is huge. But from a moral standpoint, I can't see how the American people wouldn't want it to be this way. I feel uneasy when I think about what the rest of the world will think of America if they are repaid with monopoly money. Not to mention the lack of trust they would leave in the American people and its government. Very interesting situation.

It's not us....The rest of the world needs to realize it's our government not us that are doing all these horrible things to the world.....

We are given a choice of politician A or B.......They alwys are on the same side and nothing FOR THE PEOPLE ever gets accomplished ...Anything to further our gov. does..

We " have a choice" and can " make a difference"

Yes we have a choice over which douche bag gets to screw us over.. That is about it.

They also give 2 shats less about the rest of the world than us too..

Here's a random story being floated out there that I think is likely not true - at the very least unsubstantiated - but is really meant to perpetuate the bond scare:

www.asianews.it...

So guess who benefits from floating such a story?

reply to post by marg6043

Since Iran is a member of OPEC, it still sells its crude oil in US dollars, despite Chinese investments in the region.

The US has plenty of military bases in the region ready enforce the dollar's domination.

Any estimate of Chinese oil reserves out there?


[edit on 9/6/09 by ConspiracyNut23]

Well it looks to me the the Chinese are playing the Americans at there own game. If this seems unfair to anyone remember the west has been doing this for years. Its shame we didnt lead by example instead off trying to srcew everyone. Now it looks like its our turn to be screwed.
So.....
Bend over American!

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23


No really, but as with everything in China they are very good at keeping their own secrets away from the rest of the world.

China holds vast amounts of dollars still.

Still since 2008 when the Iranian open their Oil exchange they have been trading in Euros and Yen.

This a link to the article.

TEHRAN, April 30 (Reuters) - Iran, the world's fourth-largest oil producer, is conducting all its crude trading in euro and yen, instead of the U.S. dollar, an Iranian official was quoted as saying on Wednesday.
Iran has been reducing its exposure to the dollar as the United States has ratcheted up sanctions because of a dispute over Tehran's nuclear programme. In December, an official said 90 percent of its oil export earnings were outside the dollar.

"All of Iran's oil trading is being done with euro and yen," Hojjatollah Ghanimifard, international affairs director of the National Iranian Oil Company, told Fars News Agency

.

www.reuters.com...

Americas response to that, accused of building nuclear plants and sanction their banks and business, but China and Japan doesn't give a crap they still do business as usual

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Yep GBM. It's pure rubbish. The Chinese don't play fair with their currency in the first place. No way we allow this to happen.