Originally posted by seagrass
Foundations are symbolic and literal. The beginning of most cycles of growth need to be solid and/or healthy for most things to have a fighting chance. It makes sense to me. But then genetically some are naturally stronger in certain abilities. Some communication is a focus, others their needs, others social purpose.. But the basics are represented in that model for a strong inner world. Now the next 4 circuits are an outward expression of those on the physical world?

It's true that there are differences in the base system, so to speak. The brain itself. Some of us imprint certain circuits stronger than others. Myself, I consider having a decent grasp of at least written communication, yet I didn't know how to write my name in full until about the age of seven.

I think the best way I can describe my understanding of the next 4 circuits is to say that they deal with concepts that extend beyond simple physical correlations and social structure, moving into the realm of the deep mind. Dealing with the ecstatic, the metaphysical, 'mind over matter' and similar areas. I'll get into those tomorrow

As I Understand It: Circuits 5-8
All circuits are programmable and interpretive. In the first 4 circuits we find the basics elements that form social structure and their specific manifestations are mutable.

The next 4 circuits are also mutable. They are states of consciousness which extend beyond common experience, lack firm interpretation. Myself and billions of others interpret these as 'spiritual', connections with a higher consciousness. This can be viewed as God in the broadest sense.

Interpretations here can also imprint lower circuits. That's what religion is for. In fact, I suppose that the more 'successful' a religion is can correlate to how much it imprints (controls) lower, social circuits.

Please note: When I say lower, I don't mean 'less than'. I'm merely implying that the circuits seem to have a definite ascendancy, like a ladder. But no rung is better than another because we need each to reach the next.

Also, my interpretations may seem to some to vary from the Leary/Wilson model. They don't in my opinion. Where the original model seems more attuned to how to reach these circuits, I am focusing on the collective experience as I see it. Feedback is always appreciated.

Circuit 5 - Agony and Ecstasy: This is the initial circuit in most spiritual journeys. Instigated by sex, dancing, chanting, drumming, 'sweating', self-flagellation, mutilation... In other words, excessive stress on the body and mind. It is the first stage that says to the experiencer, "You are not the body".

Circuit 6 - Peace and Tranquility: This circuit is characterized in direct opposition to the previous circuit where a state of peace and bliss is reached not through 'tuning up' but 'tuning down'. Reached through quiet practices of meditation such as prayer, chanting, yoga and tai chi; this circuit is where the mind focuses to quiet.

Circuit 7 - Harmony and Oneness: This furthers the previous circuit, focusing the mind from quiet to stillness. In this stillness is often found a total sense of belonging, a lack of separation from everything, demonstrating once and for all that you are not the body. It is often referred to as 'enlightenment'.

Circuit 8 - Higher Self: In the Leary/Wilson model this circuit is referred to as the Non-Local Quantum Circuit, the Meta-Programmer. The you that is not you. That appears to reside outside the body, on another dimension, another plane.

Brilliant videos. What the cat is doing is open to question, simply enjoying that it's making sound or attempting communication on some level. But then the two are likely interrelated at some point in evolution. Music is at its root a form of communication.

What the Thinker Thinks, The Prover Proves

I see the value of the upper 4 circuits as the ability to reprogram the lower 4. What value is this? Why the old standby of world peace, naturally achieved through individual inner peace. It might seem a pipe dream, but this is a false interpretation. Because we are nothing but thought and emotion at the core, illustrated in demonstrations of "You are not the body".

It has been demonstrated in not just anecdotal and experiential evidence but experimentally that practices of meditation lead to 'quiet thought' which leads to 'thoughtful emotion'. This in turn leads to 'thoughtful action'.

The misstep to me is assigning a system of belief to achieving this. And tying those beliefs tightly to the lower circuits. Most dangerously in the 2nd and 3rd circuits.

Remembering that the map is not the territory may help. The most admired gurus and teachers of all time have taken great pain in showing us their map. But they are not the map anymore than they are the territory.

At least that's how I see it.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark

These concepts veer away from the traditional 'outer world' descriptions of astrological houses and become more the techniques involved within one or two of them. Astrological houses encompass 'areas' of human experience. Such as home, marriage, status reputation, friendship/humanity...etc. Most of these concepts fall within the 8th, 9th and 12th houses.

Circuit 5 - Agony and Ecstasy: This is the initial circuit in most spiritual journeys. Instigated by sex, dancing, chanting, drumming, 'sweating', self-flagellation, mutilation... In other words, excessive stress on the body and mind. It is the first stage that says to the experiencer, "You are not the body".

Drugs and near death experiences as well. This is a necessary experience in my opinion. Pleasure and pain are experienced in order for contrast. I don't know if I agree that a spiritual experience of pleasure or agony requires that we think "we are not the body" but that we can control the body. That the body does not rule us. That we can experience states that seem outside of it. This is where we learn a mental state can change how we perceive pain and ecstasy. It gives us control, and therefore a feeling of connectedness to spiritual states of awareness. Somewhat primitive, but yes, I think it is a beginning stage on the journey of consciousness. This would fall in the 8th and 9th houses of death, dying, transformation, spiritual states, and higher concepts of spirituality. Religious tradition and risk taking for pleasure and adventure: associated Pluto, Jupiter and Neptune. But still remains more of a technique to reach it.

Circuit 6 - Peace and Tranquility: This circuit is characterized in direct opposition to the previous circuit where a state of peace and bliss is reached not through 'tuning up' but 'tuning down'. Reached through quiet practices of meditation such as prayer, chanting, yoga and tai chi; this circuit is where the mind focuses to quiet. This would fall in the 12 house. Our persona when we are alone, quiet, dream states etc. This is a reconnect with the higher self. Allowing a free flow and exchange with other dimensions. An opening up to subconscious communication. Rules all those forms of communication. Connection with oneness would fall in this house.. where a connection with and focus for humanity would fall in the 11th of friends and groups. A more Earthly focus. This also takes a technique perspective.

Circuit 7 - Harmony and Oneness: This furthers the previous circuit, focusing the mind from quiet to stillness. In this stillness is often found a total sense of belonging, a lack of separation from everything, demonstrating once and for all that you are not the body. It is often referred to as 'enlightenment'.

Sounds like nothing and everything at the same time. There is no house for that in traditional astrology as I know it. A concept that would fall in or under the idealistic or altered states of the energy of Neptune. Neptune is ruled by Pisces so oneness such as this would fall in the 12th house.

Circuit 8 - Higher Self: In the Leary/Wilson model this circuit is referred to as the Non-Local Quantum Circuit, the Meta-Programmer. The you that is not you. That appears to reside outside the body, on another dimension, another plane.

This is not a concept that falls within traditional astrology, but is implied through topics such as karma and past lives. This is a goal imo. Something rarely reached or connected by most people on a conscious level. This would encompass the entire chart.. all charts one has ever lived and will live. As a collection of experience.. and then who knows what all else we don't understand about the nature of our connectedness to all.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by seagrass]

I should take this up in the issues thread.. but sometimes when I edit it goes back to the original version, pre edit. It is quite annoying.

I have seen articles and threads on that tribal/shamanistic drug.. but I believe people are wanting to connect with states such as these without the use of them. I think that time is passing. I think we want to control how and when we experience such states. I believe it is possible to do so, although I have never experienced a lot of the things people talk about in these. I do get glimpses and moments that lead me to believe they are possible without drugs.

I will lay off the astrology bit now that It is pretty clear we have had and probably always will have a structure, system, tradition, or science related to human behavior. And that the ideas when presented are not always complete, nor hold other systems of thinking...but we have come a long way in understanding our consciousness on a mass level... once reserved for shamans and medicine men. We now realize on some level that we can heal ourselves without them.

Originally posted by seagrass
These concepts veer away from the traditional 'outer world' descriptions of astrological houses and become more the techniques involved within one or two of them.

Thank you once again for your insight

Yes, the upper 4 circuits seem to deal much more with transformative concepts and ideals. Appear to be more malleable. Where the lower 4 seem to be based solidly in emotional responses and material/physical interpretation. The ideas almost seem to turn in on themselves as they move upward. Rather like a Mobius strip, or infinity symbol.

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark

Originally posted by seagrass
These concepts veer away from the traditional 'outer world' descriptions of astrological houses and become more the techniques involved within one or two of them.

Thank you once again for your insight

Yes, the upper 4 circuits seem to deal much more with transformative concepts and ideals. Appear to be more malleable. Where the lower 4 seem to be based solidly in emotional responses and material/physical interpretation. The ideas almost seem to turn in on themselves as they move upward. Rather like a Mobius strip, or infinity symbol.

or the spira mirabilis and Pi, a process building on itself, expanding. Growth over time and experience. Nautilus.

Originally posted by seagrass
or the spira mirabilis and Pi, a process building on itself, expanding. Growth over time and experience. Nautilus.

And so I think we see a part of what ancients meant in referring to human existence as a spiral. Not simply a nice metaphor, but translatable to something in a way almost practical.

It was suggested to me to compile of list of 'techniques' used through the ages to achieve these states. Intuitively, I thought it sounded wonderful. As I considered I realized that it may go another way to elucidate the spiral concept, demonstrating how things are very much the same no matter how different they appear on the surface.

As you read this, perhaps try to consider as many faiths or belief systems you can apply to each one.

Please don't think I believe this compilation to be in any way exhaustive

*Sex*
Tantric yoga/Kundalini
karezza
abstinence

*Diet*
kashrut (kosher eating)
vegetarianism
fasting

*Mortification & Stress*
flagellation
piercing
sauna or 'sweating'
'fire walking'
dancing/running/walking
drumming
prostration (often repetitive kneeling)
ingesting toxins (from absinthe to strychnine)
hard breathing techniques (such as pranayama)
sensory deprivation

*Low or non-Stressful Physical Activity*
meditation
yoga
tai-chi
prayer
singing
soft breathing techniques
chanting (mantras, sutras, etc)
mudras (hand positions)

*Other Sensory Experiences*
incense
aromatherapy
light/color therapy
binaural beats
graphic arts (such as mandalas)
...

It becomes obvious even through a short list like this that for every sensory experience humans can have, they have pushed to their boundaries to achieve altered states of consciousness. Is it simply to experience a 'high' (a loose term that even long distance runners use)?

Partly, I believe, yes. But anyone who peruses sensation knows that it doesn't maintain its impact. Does that make us simply foolish? I tend to think not entirely.