A 17th Century Contactee

reply to post by Majorion

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Thanks.

Would that someone be JL?

In order to believe that stuff one would have to go with the "Planets exist in different Dimensions/Universes" idea, imo.

You say that as if "having an over active imagination" is something bad. If it werent for peoples imaginations, flying would not have come to be.

The fact that he not only had the idea of flying but a flying saucer to go along with it AND tales of life on other planets is amazing.

I find it interesting that he drew a craft without any wings or blades. During the time he drew the craft, there were no flying machines, so it seems logical that if he was delusional or faking a sighting, he would draw a craft with some kind of visible propulsion system. His wingless/bladeless drawing seems very credible to me.

reply to post by Skyfloating

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Yes, that's basically what he says. That all you need to do is create a vortex about a point, and if the vortex has enough energy and influences particles subtle enough (ie magnetic fields, there IS no "magnetic" particle technically!) then the center of the vortex will experience no gravitational forces.

reply to post by Skyfloating

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Hi Sky,
I don't think the pic you show is of a flying Saucer,to me it's more
like a winged craft with paddles in the middle kind of pushing and
pulling the air,as in a Paddlesteamer in water,still a great post though,
that thing should work.

Good point. All conceptions of flight at that time included wings or propellers. Yet his flying machine was simply a saucer.

reply to post by Rockpuck

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Look at our cars today? If these crafts do exist would you expect them to all be the same?

[edit on 8-6-2009 by seanizle]

I'm going to take a closer look. I remember the name but I don't know why I never looked into it properly,

I always come up against the argument that aliens and ufos are things that were thought up in the 40's and 50's so it's great to be reminded of this, thanks.

If i remember correct JL said pockets of atmosphere, like the inside of a deep crater the greater gravity on the far side could make it hold an atmosphere and now its backed up (sort of) by Japan JAXA and their Kaguya research mission to the moon.


wms.selene.jaxa.jp...
www.selene.jaxa.jp...


www.selene.jaxa.jp...


www.sciencemag.org...

Oh well, take it for what it is, i cant say what kind of gravity on the moon it takes to sustain an atmosphere pocket but it makes a fun hypothesis, inhabitable craters.


[edit on 2009/6/8 by reugen]

reply to post by Skyfloating

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Awesome! Thanks for posting Swedenborg. Great idea. I haven't thought of him in a while. He was so far ahead of his (our) time. Thought of the TV before electricity was captured for use by man.
Star and flag!

Really great thread, I've never heard of the guy before.

I think it definately supports the theory that Earth is just a big Alien experiment, basically an exercise for the aliens to see a primitive society evolve, how they screw things up, fix them, and how they react to information.

The aliens gave him the knowledge of future technologies, the humans dismissed it, and then the aliens decided to leave us alone for a few hundred more years until they thought we would be able to comprehend their existence and started showing themselves more often.

They left trash, sent out some "suicide" missions just to see how we would cope with it.

Hell, all those reported sightings of "God" etc were probably just UFOs, and in a way, they are "God".

Not meaning to sound like a nut or anything here, just taking the ball and running with it

I don't know too much in detail, but I know they place alot of emphasis on the 'angels' part. I'll try to pester the minister or his wife to contribute to this thread.
I'll just say that in 20 years, i've only met the nicest people associated with the church and this is not from just the Australian section, but from all over the world.

It is not the 'fake' or 'forced' type of nice either. This particular division of religion seems to attract genuinely nice people with not a hint of evangelism. So for that reason I don't hate it. And I tend to hate religion and am very critical of it.

Their belief of the afterlife seems to be very much more new age/spiritual type than that of regular religion.
From memory, it involves alot of coloured robes and angels.

Apparently alot of swedenborgs beliefs are derived from him communicating with angels and this somehow ties in with Jesus.

It's going to be embarrassing if they read this thread and realize how little i know about their churchs beliefs after 20 years

I've mainly been involved for the social aspect, and because I have friends in it.

My main problem with multidimensional existence is Why then would they be on other planets in OUR dimension?

Would it be because these planets exist coincidentally in all dimensions at the same time and place? If so, then surely we would see some examples of manipulation of the terrain. In order to provide the materials to inhabit Mars, for instance, there would have to be some form of manipulation.

If on the other hand, the terrain and all evidence of an existence is also in other dimensions, then why do they purport to be on Venus, Mars, et al, when they are not required. Surely this would mean that there are other planets in various places in our Solar System, existing in other dimensions invisible to ours?

It seems too convenient to state they live on Mars and Venus, but in another dimension. A little less thought out than I'd consider a realistic situation.

Also, how is it that these beings, living in wood huts, can visit us and enter our domain?

If he's talking about Alternate Realities, such as Sliders or StarGate SG1/Atlantis type story lines, then they would already have an Earth with a population such as ours, but which may have evolved differently to ours.

I don't see why they would create a wormhole to visit us in that case.

Interesting thread however, S&F !



[edit on 8/6/2009 by badw0lf]

I just thought that this sketch, although fatter, has a slight resemblance to the alleged Istanbul UFO. The center part struck me as similar. Different perspective (top view down), perhaps, combined with the imagination on the sketch, and the darkness of the Istanbul video...

reply to post by Skyfloating

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I thought you may have an interest in this as well.

Also in a book published in 1998 From Other Wolds it comes up with another case, that is also lesser known because of where the documents are kept (The Nice city's archives). This is supposed to have happened in Nice or what was known as Nizza back in 1608.
From the book:

At around 8pm on Aug 5 1608 people of Nice saw 3 luminous shapes over the Baie des Anges, heading at high speed toward their city. Arriving in front of the citadel which overlooked the harbor, the 3 objects suddenly stopped and began to man oeuvre slowly at about 1 meter over the water. The low altitude and the slowness of their movement meant the watchers could examine the strange arrivals in detail. What they saw changed their curiosity into anxiety.
The machines were of long oval shape, flattened and topped with a sort of mast. Hovering almost motionless, they caused the water beneath them to seethe, giving off a dense orange yellow vapour accompanied by an infernal noise. From one of the machines a living being emerged, followed by a second. They were approx human in appearance, dressed in a kind of red outfit with what seemed to be silvery scales. Their heads were huge, and now luminous circular openings took the place of eyes. Holding two tubes attached to a kind of harness vertically in their arms, they plunged into the water up to their hips and proceeded to move round their machine for a couple of hours. Then, toward 10pm, the two visitors got back into their machines and with a formidable rumbling all 3 raced off toward the east, becoming in a few seconds three little luminous points in the starry sky.
For the people of Nizza, these portents could only be a warning from God. Terrified they processed through the streets carrying the figure of Jesus, praying and imploring forgiveness for their sins, unitl the next day dawned with no further sign from their mysterious visitors.
But the visitors had not gone far. On Aug 22, they appeared further round the coast, at Genova. But the Genovese, who had heard what had happened at Nizza, reacted more violently. From the citadel, a salvo of artillery fired volleys toward the 3 craft. They did not cause the slightest damage and fired some 800 cannon balls at the crafts. They cased no distraction to them at all. However, it seems that the gunfire did discourage the occupants for none emerged into the open on this occasion.
After about and hour, on of the machines left its companions and positioned itself over the town. The populace went into panic and many injuries followed. Several deaths were reported. Some were trampleded by the crowds, others overcome by fear, but some also died as a result of radiations emitted by the vessel. Then, after a while, the machine rejoined th others, and they took off toward the east at top speed.
Aug 25, a single vessel appeared above Martigues, a fishing village close to Nizza, and manoeuvrings overhead for an hour and a half. Two people got out, similar in appearance to the two who had been seen at Nizza. They flew round their craft. It seemed to the watchers as though they were engaged in a kind of airborne duel.
This was the last manifestation of the machines. But the following week there were abundant falls of colored rain in the area, a read rain like blood. It was certainly taken to be blood by the locals, who saw it as a warning from God, as an unusual event was interpreted at the time. A more prosaic explanation is that the local soil, rich in bauxite, has a red dust which may have been stirred up by the machines. For forty days churches were packed with crowds begging to be spared whatever disaster the mysterious machines might portend.
These entries in the local archives, from which these accounts are taken, are couched in the language of the time.

The ironic part is that the majority of people are still mentally in the 18th century. If you go around saying there's real aliens on earth that are hybrids, people will ridicule you and laugh at you without even considering the possibility.

Hell, you're not even allowed to question the official figures of the Holocaust without facing ridicule, death, or imprisonment, now that is pathetic.

Maybe in another 10,000 years peoples' mentally can finally reach the 20th century. Sigh.

When people keep saying that this resembles a UFO, please remember that it is a top down view. A person stands in the middle and controls the "up and down" flaps, there is also a weight hanging underneath the middle for balance and four wheels to act as landing gear. It really looks like a hang-glider to me. And I still haven't found where it specifically says that he was contacted by aliens. Can someone please show me the source on that?

reply to post by Skyfloating

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Excellent thread, I did not know of this at all. It is amazing the evidence is everywhere and spread all throughout time. I highly doubt this man had watched too much 'Buck Rogers' or 'Star Trek', lol. Great thread, I will have to research this further.


[edit on 6/9/2009 by jkrog08]

reply to post by Semiazas

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Is it not possible as well that he simply added on the only propulsion system he knew of? I mean obviously he could not have understood the advanced propulsion a interstellar spacecraft would use (a lot of us today can't) so would it not be logical to assume he 'attached' a propulsion and steering system of technology he is familiar with? it is a common human thing to do, attach something personal or related to you (in this case the technology) on something that you do not understand or that can't be understood. In that way it helps facilitate understanding of the craft on a level you can understand it, rather then constantly being boggled over "what makes this fly?".

reply to post by Skyfloating

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This may be the most fascinating thread I've ever seen on ATS, Star and Flag. To think that not long before this man people were being burned at the stake for similar theories. The idea that someone in the 17th Century was so ahead of his time is mind boggling to say the least, it doesn't prove he was in contact with actual aliens or celestial forces but it certainly adds credibility to the idea.

He believed one day humans would go to the moon that's something that the great visionary Jules Verne didn't predict until a century later...

Another blow against the ignorant belief that the UFO phenomenon begins with Foo Fighters in WW2 or Roswell... Here's one contactee we know wasn't making it up just for the attention, after all his theories got him tried for heresy!