Mideast: Israel Cracks Down on Minority Rights

reply to post by CultureD

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Israel was made an illegal state through bribery, blackmail, fraud, and about a hundred other despicable acts of cowardice. The illegal Balfour Declaration was a bribe to England, a blackmail/propaganda campaign to USA, a dirty con and slander against Germany, and cruel repression, theft, and genocide to Palestine! This is the single most horrific act in human history and nobody can deny this truth. Anyone thinking different is simply ignorant to the facts of what is as equally obvious as it is horrifying.

I have provided a link that explains this unprecedented historical event. It is easily understandable and uncovers the true nature of this demonic groups mentality of pure evil! This is by far the most tragic human atrocity ever perpetrated by man on man and will forever remain as such regardless of time. This can only be explained as carried out by something evil far removed from anything we recognize as human. Sadly, though this is the most hideous of their crimes, it is still only one of the many horrors applied by them on humanity.

This is truly the evil force on this planet. To blindly and ignorantly defend these acts is evidence to those in the know of to whom the true enemy of humanity is. If you feel you do not identify with this evil, please take the time to educate yourselves of true events before supporting this any further. You can start with the link below.

Peace.
www.scribd.com...

reply to post by Zerbst

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Thank you for posting the link. This is a story that too often is just that a story, a tale a fable made up to make dispicable acts that have led to the disenfranchising of a whole nation of people from their land, property, dignity and often their lives themselves that all to rarely leads to a second thought on the part of the people who have most made that possible...

That's Americans! Without our tax dollars funding Israel's military and government and our Carte Blanche support for all things Israel in the United Nations true peace and real justice and dignity for all the peoples of the region might have been realized decades ago.

Americans would be better served in my humble oppinion to learn the real facts about what has happened and pressure our elected representatives to stop being an enabler a funder to it.

Thanks for the post.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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You're very welcome.

I get really frustrated when I see people defend Israel. It makes you wonder how they can be so passionate in their support if they actually know the truth? It can only be one of two things. Either they have absolutely no clue of modern history, or they are wicked evil? I'm sure it's the former, but strange none the less.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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There is a democracy since the bill was taken down. If it was a Palestinian style democracy then law that Jew selling land to Arab would be executed would pass all the readings and be working right now.

Semi truths are worse then lies.

I think it's the former too. It's such a complicated situation because the world's most popular religions all muddy the waters so to speak. A lot of the religious minded have a very hard time drawing a distinction between Biblical history versus real history. Christians especially see Jerusalem and Israel as being inextricably tied to their belief system so getting them to step beyond that and look at the situation over there from a pure humanitarian stand point with out them falling back on "well G-d said this, and G-d said that" is very hard. They truly imagine that they are doing the right thing by supporting Israel without question and to a certain extent their own religious beliefs teach them it's wrong to question certain things. The Zionists sure do play on that too, and exploit that it seems sometimes every chance they get.

I tend to think at the base religion does drive the whole thing, but not in a spiritual sense, but rather from a tactical sense. In my humble opinion the Bible is simply a 1,600 some odd year old plan to take over the world and to prepare successive generations for a march towards a one world government.

Of course the religious find that as proposterous as they do insulting, but looking at all things objectively it's how I see it all fitting in and fitting together.

The rather sad and hysterical thing is if I happen to be right, religion has taught people to actively pursue the very thing most of them don't want, and that is a one world authoritarian government.

Life sure is a funny old dog.

I have empathized heavily with the Palistinians for going on three decades. I used to read the daily accounts of the first Indafada on the bus commute to work every morning and just burned and twisted inside that adults wearing bullet proof vests and kevlar helmets stationed behind tanks could shoot little children at point blank range with rubber bullets and then bulldoze that child's home, and poison that family's well, and up root that family's groves all because children had the courage to protest what is wrong in their own world on their own streets.

It's a tragic, tragic situation that far to few people have empathy for because far too few people hear the truth about it and take the time to discover all sides to the truth of it.

Thanks friend.

When exactly have the Palistinians truly been allowed to self govern them selves for any length of time before Israeli tanks and jets start pummeling their institutions in to rubble?

What legislative history on the part of the Palistinians do you point to back up what is simply a highly prejudicial and bigoted hypothetical situation you have imagined seemingly entirely in your own mind.

Can you post some legislation by the Palistinians that bears out your supposition.

I have posted legislation by the Israelis that bears out mine.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Yes, of course. In West bank Israeli tanks and jets visit daily since second intifada ended. Or not. And yet:


www.jpost.com...
Well - of course in racist non-democratic apartheid Israel this would not happen. Not so in democratic Palestinian autonomy.
So your examples of failed laws in Israeli knesset and what actually happens in Palestinian side outlines which side is racist and undemocratic perfectly.
And no need to go to the execuses of how long Palestinians rule themself. In 1948 Israelis ruled themself for less then a year - was it execuse to what was done to Palestinian Arab population?

And this has what in the world to do with Israel denigrating the rights of Arab Israelis to free speech and expression?

Answer: it doesn't, but you probably have no other defense for israel beyond "But but but, the rockets!" - nothing personal, it's pretty much the only defense anyone has for Israel. It just doesn't apply all the time.



Again, this has what to do with hte denigration of the rights of Israelis to free speech?

Again, the answer is nothing. You're down to using nonsensical arguments and stock quotes now.



Why? If the Muslim nations of the world want to unite as a Caliphate, what business is it of yours? What business is it of anyone's? Odds are you're typing this message from one of the 50 Republics that comprise the United States, or one of the 27 nations that form the EU. Maybe you're even in one of the 15 former Soviet Republics, or are gracing us with your insipid non-sequitors from one of the 53 members of the African Union. So tell me, if the nations from Turkey to Pakistan decided to unite under a caliphate, who the hell are you to say boo?

[edit on 9-6-2009 by TheWalkingFox]

Well that certainly is a harsh law. I can see though why after having so much land taken from them without any compensation, and how the Zionists settlers are still using violence on a daily basis to terrorize Palistinians to stop working their farms and groves why they would have such a law prevented land sale to Jews.

By the way I am not allowed to own property in Mexico as an American citizen. I don't think the penalty is death though for the Mexican who sells an American land. The sale itself can not be 'closed' and titled.

It would be interesting to know whether the man sentenced was actually willingly selling his land to a Jew because he found him as the most attractive buyer, or if he was a victim of Jewish terrorism and harrasment forced in to selling his land.

I could certainly much better understand how the Palistinian Authority would not want Palistinians selling their lands to people who had intimidated them into selling it.

YouTube Link

Did they get him to sell that way?

Or this way?

YouTube Link

[edit on 9/6/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

[edit on 9/6/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

[edit on 9/6/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

[edit on 9/6/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Possibly, maybe, just maybe, because your version of history is significantly different to our version of history, and the whole problem with this debate is that the two are completely and utterly unreconcilable?

Truth is in perception. Therefore when it comes to Israel, there may as well be two truths. If you want a reasonable discussion about it you have to accept that the other person has a completely different perspective than you and find out what you can agree on. Peace and dignity for all parties would be a start, amiright?

That said, I find it utterly shocking that someone politely posted their opinion here, of all places, and it was met with bullying and intolerance. How can you expect people to have a rational dialogue about this issue when you don't even want to hear other peoples' points of view?

Matt I have to say you are becoming more reasoned in your approaches!
My compliments there.

You are very right a person's individual perception does become their reality but there really is only one 'real' version of history, just like there is only really one 'version' of the truth.

2 + 2 equals 4, it can never be 3, and it can never be 5.

Sadly when people drive religion into an argument 2 + 2 becomes 3 or 5 when someone decides to say "Well that's what G-d says it is, and G-d is never wrong".

Now it doesn't matter to that person that G-d didn't tell them in person, but that they read it in a book that man wrote supposedly for G-d, but G-d never weighs in at any point to say "yep, that's what I said alright" except through people who always have G-d on their side and never against them.

Coach of the Greenbay Packers in the locker room before the game:

"Guys bad news, G-d wants us to loose this game he's a Kansas City Cheifs fan and always has been we are screwed"!

You never actually here that!

what you hear is

Coach of the Kansas City Cheifs: "Guys this game is ours G-d wants us to win this game, he loves Kansas City and would never let Greenbay beat us" Yeeeeeeaaahhhh G-d!

Here is in a nutshell the problem with Israel, they alternate between being a spiritual entity when it serves them, a political/national entitity when it serves them, and a ethnic entitity when it serves them, and will combine ellements of any 2 or all 3 when it serves them.

They really do attempt to foster the belief that they are above reproach on all levels, and if you exploit something that is reproachable on one level, then they just switch to another level defense. Expose a flaw in their politics they go to a "Covenant of G-d" defense, expose a flaw in their Spirituality they go with a "Ethnic" defense, expose a flaw in the ethnic defense they switch to a "National/Political" defense.

It's like an obscene Carnival Fun Game at times Matt where you never know which shell the ball is under, or where it's being moved to as all three shells are constantly being moved around on the board.

It's why our forefathers had the good sense to keep State and Church seperate and to strive for the ideal that all people are created equal.

To most Israelis they really do believe that what ever they do is correct and above any reproach and criticism and people don't even have a right to do so based on one or all three of their classic defenses that mix Religion with State and Ethnicity all of which are superior in their eyes and never equal to those of any of their would be detractors.

That's why guys like the one who got jumped on get jumped on.

They aren't here to discuss or listen, they are here to teach and enforce an obscene Status Quo, and frankly many people are just sick to death of hearing it.

Israel knows darn well what it's really guilty of and they will get the respect they demand, beg, borrow and steal, freely when they fess up to real history!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Perception(distortion) is definitely playing out in this deal. People are calling this a War - accepted as normal reality. I call it (sacrificial) genocide, pure and simple. I am not biased in my research so I always try to assess all sides to a conflict, better understanding.

The perverting of life here is abominable, the woman in this video is truly portraying the human who imposes her distorted agenda and lie, she seems to really believe that its all legal. This video is bias of course, it is revealing this primeminister's game it is so obvious shes a fake. Extremely dangerous if confronted!

YouTube Link

reply to post by HulaAnglers

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I would call it one step beyond just sacrificial genocide; I would call it managed genocide for profit. Israel extorts billions of dollars from Nations like the United States of America and from private citizens all over the world based on its ‘need’ for security.

Simply put its big business for the Israelis and most likely their number one industry.

Some of the arguments put forth by Israel such as “Why won’t other countries take the Palestinians?” are just insane considering it is the Palestinian’s country in the first place.

If an Israeli bomb dropped from 5,000 feet hits a school or an apartment building in Palestine it’s because “Terrorists” are using civilians as human shields.

If a Palestinian rocket fired from 15 miles away into lands that have been stolen from them and are illegally occupied by Israelis this is called an act of terrorist aggression?

No human Israeli shields occupying that stolen land illegally have done anything that suggests any cowardice on their part or any impropriety.

Why won’t Hamas come out and face us? Maybe they would if they could get by the unmanned automatic firing computerized heavy caliber machine guns that effectively make Gaza a prison.

The way that Israel has twisted their land thefts in the Middle East as purely some kind of defensive measure after breaking every treaty that allowed for the lawful immigration of Zionists into the region by attacking every lawful authority involved in that with Israeli terrorism has to be the most obscene act of the 20th and 21st centuries combined bar none.

It’s not so much the lack of any type of morality or conscience on the part of the Israelis that amazes me the most, it’s that they actually think they have some right to do it with impunity and without a hint of criticism.

It’s an indefensible and reprehensible thing to do to their fellow human beings and I surely wonder how anything good can possibly come from it for those involved with that in the long run.

Now having said that, I can’t tell you how much restraint it takes to be so polite after watching the criminal acts by the Israelis of the appalling genocide and apartheid they are carrying out in Palestine. They are truly a pitiful excuse for a nation.

Thanks for posting the video; people need to see the horror that results from such ‘sweet sounding’ lies as the Israelis love to tell.

Well if two people are arguing about what 2+2 equals, and they can't even agree what 2 means, where it came from, or whose fault it is that 2+2 are being added together in the first place, then yes you will get different answers.

History, unlike maths, is not an exact science. It's a study of human behaviour, sociology, and perception, cause and effect. Most importantly it's a study of other people's experiences and perceptions, not one's own. Assigning blame is a dangerous thing to do when you don't have all the facts, which neither you or I do.

And I also dispute your assertion that there is only one version of the truth. Take any conflict in the world and you will have two directly opposing points of view as to who started it, who are the aggressors and who are the victims. There are so many factors involved in this to make ascertaining "truth" an impossible task. We can only make estimates based on the facts available, and as we have seen in this conflict even given historical facts can be manipulated, questioned and discredited.

Every single person on this planet has a slightly different perception of reality. That is why we have conflict and disputes. In the case of Israel and Palestinians, those perceptions of reality are so different that it causes hatred and bloodshed.

Ultimately the only thing that matters is who you choose to believe when confronted with this barrage of claim and counter-claim, with both sides accusing the other of historical distortion and reversal of causality.

In your case you choose to take the word of Pan-Arab nationalists, Jew haters, agitators and Islamic fundamentalists. That's your prerogative. That doesn't mean I have to like it, and it certainly does not give you the excuse to bully and demean people that have an opposing point of view to you.

(edit for spelling.)

[edit on 12-6-2009 by mattpryor]

reply to post by mattpryor

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Protoplasmic a bully

Sorry if you feel victimized by opposing views, but you do not need to lash out in defamatory manner.

Israel has definitely made the holocaust look like an necessary evil after all!
(joking)

What is more apparent is the soul memory of this holocaust in the descendants/youth genes. They seem to be really blood thirsty and gun ho, quite mindless in their grandiose self entitlement.

The damage that has been done here will be resonating loud and clear in future Muslim offspring. A sadistic loop carried on through generations.

The fall of man at its peak!

The outright hate campaign amongst the mainstream is ridiculous. Dangerous Evil little Babies!

I am happy something has been done about this

Have a nice day!

reply to post by mattpryor

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Or when you have one person who knows exactly what 2 means and what 2 plus 2 means and exactly where it came from, and exactly why, and exactly why they are being added together because it’s all just rudimentary fundamental documented knowledge routed in logic, and they are trying to explain that 2 + 2 equals 4 and the other person only wants to pony up one, and leave the other person footing the bill on the other 3, even though the person who has only contributed 1 has had almost exclusive use of all 4 you have kind of like what we have today with the United States and Israel…

The United States pays for most of it, takes the liability and risk and damage for most of it, and Israel enjoys the advantage of all of that while the United States suffers all the disadvantages of that.

When ever anyone complains about this arrangement in the United States then the deadbeat who brings almost nothing of any value what so ever to the table (Israel) simply cries that they just don’t understand why anyone would question that they don’t understand the fundamentals of basic math and why they can’t be a perennial charity case that doesn’t have to conform to international law or standards or come by and maintain things in honest, humane and self supportive and responsible and responsive ways.

This is not both parties not agreeing on these fundamental rudimentary issues Matt this is one party having to pay the piper 4 on behalf of an undisciplined, irresponsible, emotionally dysfunctional and amorally selfish nation whose propensity for indiscriminate and disproportionate violence seems to be the only 1 thing they have to add to a bill that equals 4. Whether it’s Israelis or Arabs flying planes into our buildings it’s all being done 4 Israel. 4 our support of Israel, 4 our gullibility of letting Israelis pretend simple math is not simple but involves a complex set of tales, lies, suppositions, bigotries and stereo typical assumptions to understand.

2 + 2 always and forever =’s 4 Matt except for people who don’t want to be held accountable by and 4 the numbers.




Matt I rode my bicycle to the store at 6:22 PM this evening to get 2 packs of cigarettes and a candy bar. I hate to break it to you but that’s history.

Now someone might say I went to a strip club! Someone might say I was in an alleyway playing a game of pickup craps. Someone might say I was visiting the blind orphanage bringing homemade chicken soup.

The fact is I rode my bicycle to the store at 6:22 PM this evening to get 2 packs of cigarettes and a candy bar. That’s really what happened, there is no science, or sociology or perception involved.

While you might be putting forth some arguments of why some ignorant and deceitful people grabble with simple things like 2 + 2 = 4, and whether someone really went to the store at 6:22 PM…

None of that changes the fact that 2 + 2 =’s 4 and I went to the store at 6:22 PM this evening to get 2 packs, not 3 packs or 1 packs of cigarettes, because I like to smoke, not because I am trying to kill my next door neighbors dog with second hand smoke (yep she is Jewish LOL) or because I lost a crap game in the alley and the winner wanted 2 packs of cigarettes.




No Matt I am sorry I really went to the store at 6:22 PM this evening to get two packs of cigarettes and a candy bar, despite the fact that my next door neighbor had just delivered a home made bowl of delicious chicken soup (Did I mention she is Jewish Matt?) for baby sitting her lovable dog Heidi (Did I mention Heidi is a Dachshund and German) as I often do even though she worries I am killing her dog with 2nd hand smoke!




Yes it’s true that Heidi seems to like me more than her mother despite the cigarette smoke and that Heidi (did I mention Heidi is German) has taken to snapping/biting more at her mother now since coming into my life a year ago (Did I mention her mother is Jewish?)




Personally I don’t think it has anything to do with the second hand smoke that Heidi snaps at her Mother more now or the fact that Heidi the Dachshund is German, I think it might have more to do with her Mother sometimes hits her (2 grown women sharing a household is tough even when one of them is a dog on the both of them) which I don’t approve of. Of course Heidi’s mother claims she has to hit the dog to discipline her, and of course I tell her that no, any good dog trainer will tell you that is the worst way in the world to discipline a dog. Yet as time goes on clearly Heidi the German Dachshund seems to like her mother less and less despite the dangers of second hand smoke in my apartment!

Of course I have threatened at times to call the Society for the Prevention for Cruelty to Animals but I know Heidi loves her Mother despite her sometimes reactionary emotional, verbal and physical cruelties towards her and I wouldn’t want to see her taken away from her mother. Hey it’s bad enough I get stuck babysitting her several days a week, a little dog is not exactly conducive to a bachelor’s lifestyle if you know what I mean Matt.

I sure would like to see things work out in the long term between Heidi and her Mother and it’s cute because sometimes her mother will claim Heidi does things, I know Heidi has not done. Heidi can’t even talk to add her version to the events.

Yet it’s funny when you are standing right there and watching the two of them interact and all of a sudden her mother says “did you see what she just did, she has to be punished” and you have seen what the dog just did because you are witnessing it with your own two eyes, and it sure isn’t what her Mother said well…you know someone might be having a little control issue and a problem with reality…




Yes you have summed me up perfectly Matt, I am sure the soup and occasional dinner my next door neighbor who is a transplanted New York Jew to Miami who was widowed a year ago that I have spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours helping her readjust to her new life all from the standpoint of a good neighbor that she recognizes this in me too and puts some slow acting poison in those little things she occasionally does for me to she her appreciation for my kindness and benevolence towards her and her dog.

I am sure I have in the past misinterpreted the live videos I have witnessed from things like the first Intifada were a five year old boy throws a small stone hardly bigger than a pebble in the general direction of a squad of Israeli soldiers who then shoot the five year old boy point blank in the head with a rubber bullet from an M-16 killing him with a massive hemorrhage to his brain.

I am sure that the soldiers standing on land that they had stolen through military force of arms from a people who agreed to let Zionists peacefully immigrate into their nation of Palestine must have known that when the boy wasn’t throwing pebbles that hit no one, he was at home designing thermo nuclear warheads with the relief supplies given to him by the United Nations because of economic employment and commerce blockades inflicted on his family and neighbors by the Israelis keeps them dirt poor.

Yep that little 5 year old boy sure had it coming huh Matt?

I am sure the soldier who fired the killing round was awarded Israel’s highest Military Decoration for his exceptional bravery and courage under such deadly fire!

Matt can you cook soup? I have to tell you, it makes what my neighbor does to poor sweet little Heidi a little bit more palatable. You know what they say the way to a man’s heart is through his stomach!

Don’t worry Matt I am going to keep working with all my neighbors to make the world a kinder, gentler and more loving place.

Heidi sure seems to enjoy an affectionate pat on the head and a kind word. Funny Funny Matt she doesn’t understand what the words mean since she is just a dog, but she recognizes a kind and loving tone.

[edit on 13/6/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by mattpryor

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No, the truth is the truth. Only a dissembler and sophist would perceive the truth as something else.

Littering discourse with myths and distortions does not suggest that the issue is one of perception. It is proof of weakness of argument.

reply to post by InfaRedMan

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I think you and I misunderstand one another- I have not- nor do I- think that the Palestinians have no right to live on their ancestral land, either. I merely suggested that, as Israel is a soveriegn ntion that is continually barraged with ordnance, it is not surprising that they defend their piece of land.

I'm not a bleeding-heart liberal, BTW, who mourns the loss of Zion, and thinks that all Palestinians should die, however necessary- nor am I a right-wing hawk with the same opinion.
Is it impossible to close the tunnels from Egypt (from which a great deal of the TERRORIST Palestinals- not ALL Palestinians- get their armament?

I know the West has armed Israel- it has happened because the West owes Israel a "debt of honor:, if you will. We refused refugees in WW2; we in the US, UK, EU, turned away those who fled Nazi Europe- and Israel was created. My firned's father lost his life and his troops in the Negev War- but Israel stood her ground to keep SOME LAND.

I do NOT take issue with the Palestinians (because the practice a different faith, or for any other reason); I take issue with those who would use their own people as human shields, in schools, in churches, mosques, synagogues- in cafes and markets- to DRAW the fire of Israel. I's not unlike the abuse of African children trained to be warriors, or the Viet Kong, who used their children in warfare.

If there's going to be a war b/w Israel and Palestine- let it be fair- fought by UNIFORMED soldiers on a battlefield- on both sides- not this geurilla garbage that just harms everyone- aggressor or aggressee- on either side!

Maybe an outside force- a neutral force (and not the UN for the love of Pete) could take over security until this madness ends- to ensure safe passage of all to Jerusalem, for worship, to Eilot for holiday, wherever is necessary. I want peace there- dreadfully desire it- mourn the contempt that this discussion causes no matter where it occurs- but at the end of the day- for now- Israel IS a NATION- and all nations have the right to defend their borders. I know you take issue with how it was formed, but remember, the Europeans have drawn nearly every line on the globe- we can't single this line out as more or less valuable than others, can we??

Let's all think of a peaceful solution rather than attacking each other- lord knows it doesn't help except to inculcate more hatred- and that is the opposite of my intent.

[edit on 13-6-2009 by CultureD]

reply to post by Zerbst

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Well, fellow member, I disagree, respectfully. I hope we can engage in more productive dialogue, or if you choose, not at all. certainly, you have the right to your opinion.

I would ask you, though, as I have asked others about this topic- did your ancestors take land from people to whom it belonged? It's happened for millenia, and whether you - or anyone- agrees with the decision- Israel IS a soveriegn nation. I hope that all people who live there- regardless of their faiths- may be secured and live safely in the future.

I also know that a small plot of land is a pretty rough deal for the 6-50 million (depending on who's counting) people who were displaced and killed in Europe- Western Europe, the Balkans, Russian states like Ukraine, the Baltics, etc., from 1900-1960 or so, by Hitler and Stalin. There are few descendents left of that culture in the middle east. To deny one piece of land to them smacks to me of a continuation of the worst kind of racism I can imagine.
If the tables were turned I doubt highly the Christian community would settle for a piece of land no bigger than New Jersey (that is under constant attack).

[edit on 13-6-2009 by CultureD]

reply to post by masonwatcher

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I don't know that the security of Israel as a state, even in a discussion that became esoteric could be relegated to "sophistry'. It is a real and immediate crisis, and one for which there is no time to loose, as people---on both "sides"---are dying daily.