I dislike dissent- especially on a forum for whose members I have so much respect- BUT.

Israel was made a State. A Sovereign Country. They have the right to protect themselves from terrorism as any country does. Hezbollah and Hammas are terrorist organizations that have slowly and stealthily encroached upon the State of Israel. I don't always agree with Israel. They tick me off often. However, if Canada and Mexico were CONSTANTLY lobbing bombs into Iowa of Oregon or Louisiana, the US would fight back, HARD. Or if Germany invaded France.....hmmm.....that started 2 World Wars.

Israel is an oasis of Jewish heritage surrounded by nations who would as soon see her wiped off the globe as look at her. To stand by and claim that ISRAEL is the bad guy here makes me violently ill. Time for Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iran, saudi, etc., to ACCEPT a Jewish country in their midst and resettle the Palestinians in countries where they have brethren, and let Israel have a piece of land no bigger than New Jersey. NOT to defend Israel is equivalent to allowing another genocidal act, and I won't sit idly by while it happens, no matter how violently they've been FORCED to defend their land.

Forgive me if I offend people on this thread. I take no issue with the peaceful Muslim world- only those who would seek to re-enact 1453 (fall of Byzantium) and create a great Caliphate from The Mediterranean to the Himalayas.

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Wow. I'm really spoiled. On many other topics on ATS there is polite disagreement.

You are entitled to your opinions- and I even prefaced (without need to do so) the fact that I dislike dissenting, before I stated my opinion.

What I find disappointing after incredibly astute and respectful dialogue on this site is your personal attack.

I will not apologize for my point of view. I would suggest you study WHY the State of Israel was created- on the very place where the Judaic people began, and as a result of their utter annhiliation in WW2 before you cast aspersions at one who would defend their right to live.

And yes- they have been encroached upon, both by great acts of terrorism and by stealth, with the help of the surrounding countries- in a blatant and well-known attempt to eliminate the state.

I'm sorry it offends you so greatly that a population of people have such a tiny piece of earth- and defend their right to it- whether you agree with how it was attained or not.

Did your ancestors take land from natives and claim it as their own? People in glass houses and all that....

If this is the kind of personal attack I should expect here I will reserve my posts for a more intellectual community- one who hears opposing opinions, and disagrees RESPECTFULLY.

By the way- I don't live in a fairy tale- if I did, I would not count my grnadmother on an Auschwitz deportation log. And I am NOT a Zionist- I am one who respects the rights of all people to live freely- and it is repulsive that in the 21st C so many people STILL debate the existence of Israel.

Please don't respond- I've done with this ridiculous and insulting conversation. You may now return to your own bias.

A racist???????????????? Please. This is disgusting. I cannot believe I'm experiencing this here, of all places.

Maybe my "fairy tale" was that there existed a forum where people may discuss issues freely. How silly of me- it's just another group of people with nothing better to do than throw stones.

Believe me, I won't "bother" any of you again with a logical discussion or a personal opinion that is based in reality.

Democracy is always like this, the minorities are the ones who have to suffer in silence. Why would anyone be surprised by this.

Originally posted by CultureD
I dislike dissent- especially on a forum for whose members I have so much respect- BUT.

A wise man once said that dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

Originally posted by CultureD
However, if Canada and Mexico were CONSTANTLY lobbing bombs into Iowa of Oregon or Louisiana, the US would fight back, HARD.

If Iowa or Louisiana blockaded Canada with a wall all around it and robot snipers all alongside the wall so that nobody can get a few hundred meters near the wall or get fired upon then you know what?

YOU DAMN RIGHT CANADA WILL BE LAUNCHING SOME ROCKETS!!!!

Originally posted by CultureD
Hezbollah and Hammas are terrorist organizations that have slowly and stealthily encroached upon the State of Israel.

In fact the reverse is true. Israel is guilty of encroaching. Let the facts be your friend!

if Canada and Mexico were CONSTANTLY lobbing bombs into Iowa of Oregon or Louisiana, the US would fight back, HARD.

Add to that equation that Canada and Mexico were lobbing bombs because America kept pinching their land until they were basically living in an open air prison very much like the Warsaw Ghetto, then you will be more correct in your analogy!

Germany invaded France.....hmmm.....that started 2 World Wars.

So.. using that logic, it's then safe to assume that Israels invasion of Palestine could very well start World War 3?

to ACCEPT a Jewish country in their midst and resettle the Palestinians in countries where they have brethren

Get rid of the Palestinians? The Jew's were re-settled on Palestinian land my friend. Again, you're all Topsy Turvy! I think Israel needs to accept that they are in a predominantly Muslim part of the world and accept their neighbors.

Just my 2 cents...

IRM

[edit on 9/6/09 by InfaRedMan]

As a general reminder, please limit your comments to the topic at hand and refrain from making personal remarks directed toward fellow ATSers. Answers to these problems and questions will only be fostered through civil debate.