Sarkozy: "Islamization is Inevitable"

Unfortunately, Western liberalism and tolerance are the Islamists best friends. Our only hope is the emergence of a powerful China and Russia who are far more opposed and cognizant to the threat of Islamification.

I'm sorry to have to tell you this, all, but you've been totally had on this one.

First of all, this article is built up around an excerpt of an interview. With French President Nicolas Sarkozy? No, with Philippe de Villiers.

Who is Philippe de Villiers? He does know Sarkozy 'personally' - as the article claims - but only as a political opponent.
PdV is the leader a small populist right-wing party, fiercely nationalist and hostile to the European Union. He has nothing to do with the actual French government and can therefore not speak on behalf of the French President, anymore than Ralph Nader can speak on behalf of Barak Obama.

The article initially says:

There is nothing new here. We knew what Sarkozy's vision of the future was: an "Islam of France", "métissage" between races and ethnic groups, dissolution of nationalist, regional, and ethnic identities, subjugation to Brussels, openness to socialism, and a Turkey as closely aligned with Europe as possible, etc...

This couldn't be further from the truth. It is disinformation in the sense that it turns everything at its end.

The French President has - since he came to power - changed France's foreign policy from Arab friendly (which former President Jacques Chirac clearly was) to Israeli friendly (himself being a quarter Jewish).

President Sarkozy do NOT want Turkey in the European Union, he's outspokenly against it.

President Sarkozy's immigration politics - which in France is mainly north African Muslim - has so far been stricter than his predecessors, and the number of expulsions of illegal aliens has skyrocketed during his mandate.

Nothing in this article makes any sense.

The Brussels Journal is a right-wing conservative Journal founded by Flemish journalist Paul Belien, officially a nonpartisan publication. However, Belgian media link it to Vlaams Belang since Belien's wife, Alexandra Colen, is a parliament member for the party and Belien receives a salary from them. The Vlaams Belang is a Flemish extremist nationalist party, fiercely anti-Islamic.

I believe they're just trying to stir things around, I see no point with this article otherwise.

Originally posted by Heliocentric
I'm sorry to have to tell you this, all, but you've been totally had on this one.

First of all, this article is built up around an excerpt of an interview. With French President Nicolas Sarkozy? No, with Philippe de Villiers.

Who is Philippe de Villiers? He does know Sarkozy 'personally' - as the article claims - but only as a political opponent.

PdV is the leader a small populist right-wing party, fiercely nationalist and hostile to the European Union. He has nothing to do with the actual French government and can therefore not speak on behalf of the French President,

[...]

The French President has - since he came to power - changed France's foreign policy from Arab friendly (which former President Jacques Chirac clearly was) to Israeli friendly (himself being a quarter Jewish).

President Sarkozy do NOT want Turkey in the European Union, he's outspokenly against it.

President Sarkozy's immigration politics - which in France is mainly north African Muslim - has so far been stricter than his predecessors, and the number of expulsions of illegal aliens has skyrocketed during his mandate.

Nothing in this article makes any sense.

The Brussels Journal is a right-wing conservative Journal

[...]

I believe they're just trying to stir things around

Thanks for the clarification on this.

Sarkozy is accused of a lot of things. I think he is not as anti-Muslim as you imply, but representing a backlash in France and elsewhere in Europe where the public sees economic strain and losses of jobs, and is resentful of the increasing numbers of Muslims in the population. This is exacerbated by the economic downturn.

Few realize the Catch-22 in places like France where an aging ethnically European populace need new younger workers to essentially keep the social system of generous retirement benefits going.

Sarkozy not wanting Turkey in the EU is not unique. The wealthier EU members are concerned about a relatively poorer country, and a Muslim one to boot, as a new member.

Sarkozy has inherited a set of problems the Chirac government fostered.
The previous administration was accomodating to the Middle East for diplomatic reasons, with concerns for affordable oil and gas. They took an anti-American stance while quietly benefiting for Iraq's oil-for-food program under the table.

Sarkozy is a vanguard for a more hardline stance on what many European voters see as an unwanted encroachment from the Muslim world.

Like any elected official, he has to make tough decisions on which segments of his constituents he will try to please first.


Mike

reply to post by theblunttruth


The Muslims have won Asians over many times in the past even in times when they were totally at the mercy of Asians. The Russians, the Persians, and the Chinese are great friends.

Originally posted by eradown
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

This is not what I'm hearing from childless couples. Most of them are saying they do not feel the world is safe for children. This is both men and women. Women are not marrying because without children they veiw marriage as pointless. Most men are no longer able to protect women and children. Sadly, many men are looking for a sugar mamma to protect them.The people who have children can tell you even more about how hard it is to keep children safe. There are some evil people in the world at this time.

I hear both... some folks say they don't want to raise a child in today's world... and other folks say the don't need children to feel fulfilled in life and would rather spend their time doing what they want to do than raising children.

You just can't extrapolate your personal experiences onto the whole of the generation.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I was not extrapolating my own experiences in this case. The power that be in the west make no pretense of loving children or families. This makes raising children and staying married problematic ,so I cut women and men who choose not to marry or have children some slack ,but I have no use for people who call families breeders. I suspect the root of all the anti family ,anti child bias is that the elites of the west are misogynistic to the bone. It is a lose situation either way for American women; if they do not marry and have no relatives who can look after them when they are old, they are usually dragged off to nursing homes by social workers and put down.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


This is ridiculous.
Gay marriage is completely marginal and abortion not so much practised.
Many families want to have children (at least in France).
I see many kids who are not of arab descent.
The problem is exaggerated.
It confines to paranoia.

Originally posted by eradown
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

I was not extrapolating my own experiences in this case. The power that be in the west make no pretense of loving children or families.

Why should they? That's a cultural thing left to individuals, families, and cultures... not the gov.

This makes raising children and staying married problematic ,so I cut women and men who choose not to marry or have children some slack ,but I have no use for people who call families breeders.

What makes it problematic is that people mistake culture for law. The gov in the West is designed not to encourage or discourage anything, but allow the people to actually make that decision.

Why do we need the TPTB to have any part in encouraging families?

I suspect the root of all the anti family ,anti child bias is that the elites of the west are misogynistic to the bone.

Once again... it has nothing to do with this elite you speak of. The people I am talking to who don't want children are women themselves... they would rather write a novel, or whatever else they want to do instead of having children.

You have to understand that lots of women feel that it was TPTB from the first half of the 20th century which kept women barefoot and pregnant.. and now they want to try something different...

It is a lose situation either way for American women; if they do not marry and have no relatives who can look after them when they are old, they are usually dragged off to nursing homes by social workers and put down.

What?

I haven't seen anyone "put down". I know lots of women who don't have children, who are leading extremely fulfilling lives.

Your concept of women seem to be rather antiquated... wasn't this what womens liberation was all about?

reply to post by HunkaHunka
Lets establish vocabulary powers that be are not the Gov., although the powers that be do control who will be elected and what those people do. The powers that be belong to families which have untold billions of dollars and own many international companies. When I say they have made their bias against families known I don't mean they just set in their limos and sneer at families. In foriegn third world countries ,they actually do forcibly sterilize women. They even give speeches on why we must not have more than one child. Their pro abortion propaganda hurts my eyes and insults my intelligence ,but forced sterilizations should be stopped. The powers would love to do in this country what they have done in the third world. Do not make the mistake of thinking the powers that be are free thinkers who live and let live. You end up on the wrong side of an issue with them, you should prepare for grief.

I do not care if they like families; I just want them to leave families alone. Many people are being bankrupted by CPS. Poor people are losing their children and never learning of the fate of their kids ,but enough horror stories are coming out about that system to turn your hair white. Yes, I do connect the hate these elites pour out in their propagnda for families with the terrible fate of foster kids abused in custody.

I think the women who are as ambitious and intelectual as you describe were never as bare foot and pregnant as you seem to think they were.
Only twenty percent of the population ever became that educated. That percent will never change. The elitists will never allow more than twenty percent of the population to become novelists and such.Those women for the most part do not worry about CPS stealing their kids. They never produced that many kids to begin with ;so, they are not responsible for the population decline.

The middle class are not marrying. Librarians, nurses , secretaries are choosing to remain alone and it is not because they hate children or want to write a book. They do not want to end up divorced and raising children in poverty.

Young man my concept of women is based on reality. Your concept of women appears to be based on slogans and advertisments.

If you read the newspaper you would know indigent old women who have no relatives are being carted off to nursing homes. Twenty years ago it was not uncommon to hear of old people staying in nursing homes several years. Now days nursing homes are like roach motels for old people. Read up on eugenics and you would not believe this accidental.

Face it the US has to come out of its Fast Food Eating, American Idol watching coma. We face threats from all corners of the globe and possibly from beyond. I foresee a future of inevitable warfare and if this nation does not wake up soon we will not be around to see it. It is time for a return to honor for us to quit fearing are problems and directly face them. I have hope however that after this joke of a president has made this once great nation a laughing stock. It will instinctively trigger the warrior instincts that are laying dormant in many and fully enhance that in those already awake. We will then pin point the small "liberal core" that has emasculated our nation. Who have preached that everything "unAmerican" is acceptable and to be tolerated and anything that represents the strength of ideals that made this nation great as foolish. We are watching you and we are pissed! Once we have reasserted ourselves worrying about these types of things will be a thing of the past. I for one think Europe may be a lost cause, besides we already had to bail them out before.

Originally posted by eradown
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Lets establish vocabulary powers that be are not the Gov., although the powers that be do control who will be elected and what those people do. The powers that be belong to families which have untold billions of dollars and own many international companies. When I say they have made their bias against families known I don't mean they just set in their limos and sneer at families. In foriegn third world countries ,they actually do forcibly sterilize women.

Could you please define "they"? And provide support for this stance please.

They even give speeches on why we must not have more than one child.

Again, could you please provide evidence of this. If it is in a speech, I would expect evidence of this should exist.

Their pro abortion propaganda hurts my eyes and insults my intelligence ,but forced sterilizations should be stopped.

Who are these people? I can understand how pro-choice propaganda can be as disturbing to those who see abortion as murder, as pro-life propaganda can be to those who see abortion as a valid route for a woman to choose.


Again, there are folks like you who feel that women shouldn't be able to choose because you feel it is murder, and there are folks like the women I know who believe this is more about choice in extreme circumstances.

I would agree, though on the whole forced sterilization thing, it shouldn't occur anywhere.... it really shouldn't have happened to Alan Turing either. He was responsible for Britain's success in code cracking during WWII and the law at that time castrated him because he was a homosexual...

The powers would love to do in this country what they have done in the third world.

Why? I don't get this...

Do not make the mistake of thinking the powers that be are free thinkers who live and let live. You end up on the wrong side of an issue with them, you should prepare for grief.

No TPTB are humans... after the pursuit of human power, like in every other era of human existence... That's just the way it goes... there are very few exceptions in the history of the world,unless you literally believe in the Golden Age concept.

I do not care if they like families; I just want them to leave families alone. Many people are being bankrupted by CPS.

How does CPS bankrupt people?

Poor people are losing their children and never learning of the fate of their kids ,but enough horror stories are coming out about that system to turn your hair white.

My hair is already white... but I know there are crazy things going on... no doubt about that... but once again, this isn't TPTB... this is general human negligence....

For example, when I was in Junior High, I exhibited Manic Depressive behavior... so my mother took me to a Psychiatrist... this Psychiatrist said that I would never become anything, and that my mother should make me ward of the court and place me in a state mental institution. Good think for me, my mother found a psychologist who knew that the medication I was on for Epilepsy, was found to cause manic-depression after 7 years of use... prescribed some lithium, and for the remainder of the time I had epilepsy and required the original meds, there was no more issues from the side effects. Of course I grew out of epilepsy.. and am fine now... My point being, that it's simply human for this type of negligence and horror stories to occur and is not tied to any specific power that be...

Yes, I do connect the hate these elites pour out in their propagnda for families with the terrible fate of foster kids abused in custody.

I was also a foster child for a short while, but was lucky enough that they went to the same church as my grandmother, so while my mother had me in foster care as she worked through some issues with my father, I spent that time in foster care.

My half sister was not as lucky and she did have some very negative experiences....

Once again, there were no powers that be in these cases... simply a bad system and in the case of my half sister, which occured in my fathers first marriage, subject to very negligent parents. Sad... but common...

I think the women who are as ambitious and intelectual as you describe were never as bare foot and pregnant as you seem to think they were.

Actually, their mothers were. Everyone of the women I know who took this route was in some way motivated by what they saw at home.

Only twenty percent of the population ever became that educated. That percent will never change. The elitists will never allow more than twenty percent of the population to become novelists and such.

Are you even listening to yourself? Have you even BEEN TO A BOOKSTORE RECENTLY? Seriously... can you say Twilight... Sooky Stackhouse.... Need... The list goes on and on... there is no end to the list of titles written by women my wife brings through the front door...

Hell my wife is writing a novel as we speak! I got a technical book published once and in Borders and Barnes & Nobles... which was cool... but the point is... Elitists have no interest in keeping women from writing novels.. and if they do.. they are doing a horrible job!



Sorry.. that one actually cracked me up... you got to admit

Those women for the most part do not worry about CPS stealing their kids. They never produced that many kids to begin with ;so, they are not responsible for the population decline.

Of course some of these women are not worrying about CPS stealing their kids... in some cases.. they don't have any kids!!!!

But in the cases that they do...

Keep in Mind JK Rowling was a broke mother of I think it was three kids, and couldn't afford childrens books so she made up stories... and now look at her...

If not the poor.. then who are these PTB targeting?

The middle class are not marrying.

Ok, now this will be an interesting statistic if you can provide some proof, but I'm likely to believe you without it. Ask yourself why though....

And why does it even matter if the middle class aren't marrying... it's an outdated concept anyway...it's great for some, but it should never be something which is expected of people to do. That was the older version of oppression that people are throwing off.. I mean in India, they still have arranged marriages for goodness sake!

Librarians, nurses , secretaries are choosing to remain alone and it is not because they hate children or want to write a book. They do not want to end up divorced and raising children in poverty.

I'm sorry but in the pool of single professional women I know, they all like to get with guys... but find that Men are non committal... surprise surprise....

I don't know any woman who is single who uses fear as an excuse for their lifestyle choice...

Young man my concept of women is based on reality. Your concept of women appears to be based on slogans and advertisments.

Nope, at 36 years of age, my concept of women is based on the ones which have surround me. Now granted, some of these are very slogan minded women themselves... but others are very enlightened about their sense of awareness...

All the way from my Mother who was the bread winner in my house, to many of the professional women I know, these women don't all want the same thing, but they all want the ability to choose for themselves what that thing is, and not to have it dictated to them by something someone else wants. They are individuals.

And they are all college educated... some of them with Masters Degrees ... funny thing is, I, the male in the group... barely graduated from High School lol....

If you read the newspaper you would know indigent old women who have no relatives are being carted off to nursing homes. Twenty years ago it was not uncommon to hear of old people staying in nursing homes several years. Now days nursing homes are like roach motels for old people.

First of all, my mother spent most of her career in geriatrics. I do know there are faculty which cares, and faculty which are abusive... once again, this is a human issue, not a TPTB issue...

There is an issue now with nursing homes wanting to keep patients there, so they can continue to justify their own existence under the healthcare system of today... but that's not an intent, it's a side effect of a lame healthcare system.

Read up on eugenics and you would not believe this accidental.

Believe me... it is... as I said... my mother spent most of her career in geriatrics, at one point managing a 120 room facility. I even worked in one of them when I was in high school. My Mother was one of the Angels.. I saw her fire more people for mistreating people than anything else. She eventually went to work for the state survey team auditing facilities and looking for mistreatment. She was a stickler lemme tell ya.

She then moved on to Hospice Homecare, and still does that today at 61...

I almost grew up in nursing homes... so don't tell me about how it's TPTB...

It's your fellow man

[edit on 8-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Can we possibly get back on topic? I don't give a damn about some of the ancillary discussions going on that are off topic.

Start your own thread on geriatrics, or gay problems so that we can move right past that if we wish.

reply to post by dooper


Actually if you read the article, the issue of gay people is very pertinent to the discussion. The ancillary issues were whether or not a dropping birthrate was because women were afraid of raising children. Once again a very pertinent point....


How else could we be more on topic? Keep it to short easily digestible soundbytes?

The real fact of the matter is, this article was a misrepresentation. It had someone who is anti-gay and very anti womens choice being interviewed... and the person who I was debating with supports those same ideas but blames them on some sort of systematic totalitarianism by TPTB...





[edit on 8-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by HunkaHunka
That whole was shpeel you put out was a waste of your time and mine. You gave me more information about yourself than I needed. It also had more to do with bragging about your wife than it had to do with the original topic. My wife is better than your wife bla!bla!bla! I will not bother replying to any of it. If I said the sky was blue, you would claim it was polka dotted. Okay, I agree to disagree with you.

reply to post by eradown


Oh wow... I didn't even think you had a wife... I was thinking you were a woman actually the way you were acting like you knew why they weren't having children...



[edit on 8-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by HunkaHunka

I wasn't the only one reading your post. Someone else might be envious of you. I usually don't advertise on the web things I want to keep.

To stay on topic. Islam is speading because western culture has become banal. If you go to Barnes and Noble people are buying nonfiction and fiction written by Muslims ; people are buying these books because they want a fresher vision. Islam because they do not have declining birth rate is able to provide a fresher vision . With youth on its side Islam will not need the sword inorder to spread.



[edit on 8-6-2009 by eradown]

Originally posted by eradown
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

I wasn't the only one reading your post. Someone else might be envious of you. I usually don't advertise on the web things I want to keep.

I don't have anything to hide... really...

To stay on topic. Islam is speading because western culture has become banal. If you go to Barnes and Noble people are buying nonfiction and fiction written by Muslims ; people are buying these books because they want a fresher vision.

Are you attempting to convince me that an ancient religion which still represses women and forbids so many behaviors is somehow going to bring a fresh vision? How's this for a fresh vision... Be your own God! Take responsibility for your own Universe and stop propping up your reality with fairy tales given to you from someone else...

Islam is as lame as Christianity... They've ran their course and are now obsolete... now we just got to get the rest of the monkeys to realize this...

Islam because they do not have declining birth rate is able to provide a fresher vision . With youth on its side Islam will not need the sword inorder to spread.

It will definitely need to learn about womens rights though or else it will need a sword...

So basically you are a shill for Islam... wow... there's a revolutionary idea...

Seriously... no ancient religion which has been dominant in a large part of the world for the last couple thousand years is going to bring a fresh vision... it's the same old crap from the hebrew tribe... that one tribe.

Do you realize HOW MANY tribes there were in Europe and how many different versions of Gods and Goddesses there were? Islam is the sad echoes of only one of these primitive tribes... and a military God at that... one which calls for the extermination of the cities it's peoples conquer...

I prefer Lugh Lamfada of the Celtic tribes... Now there's a fresh vision! A God who is the master of all trades...

Honestly, I believe atheism will spread, and eventually people will become their own diety... At least they will stop following some washed up god from a tribe they don't even belong to...

reply to post by HunkaHunka
I dare you to read the first book written by an Islamic writer which catches your eye in Barnes and Noble. You will never want to read anything psuedo Celtic again.



[edit on 9-6-2009 by eradown]

Originally posted by eradown
Islam is speading because western culture has become banal. If you go to Barnes and Noble people are buying nonfiction and fiction written by Muslims ; people are buying these books because they want a fresher vision. Islam because they do not have declining birth rate is able to provide a fresher vision . With youth on its side Islam will not need the sword inorder to spread.

I think a quick check of Barnes & Noble current bestsellers will put you first claim in perspective.

Islam is a fresher vision. I thought it was about maintaining a tradition.

And the fresher vision is due to the lack of declining birth rate. Huh?

So you're saying there has been a need of the sword to spread?

Sorry none of this make any sense.


Mike

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Dude, you are still manic depressive, I'm sure your mum is awesome but please start your own thread about her and let the people here stay on focus.

[edit on 9-6-2009 by artvandalay]