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Originally posted by poet1b
Well, I have to admit I was wrong on ice particle sublimation in space.
Originally posted by poet1b
These particles show no evidence of returning to the spacecraft.
So, even though these particles last for a couple of orbits they don't return to the shuttle. The evidence of what we see in shuttle videos still stands. What we are seeing in the STS-75 tether video still can not be explained as particles close to the shuttle.
It has been reported that particles contacted the orbiter on STS-8 and STS-61A during subsequent orbits after water dumps
Liquids partially freeze when dumped from spacecraft producing particles which are released into free space at various velocities. Recontact of these particles with the spacecraft is possible for specific particle sizes and velocities and, therefore, can become contamination for experiments within the spacecraft or released experiments as a result of waste and potable water dumped from Space Shuttle. An examination of dump characteristics was conducted on STS-29 using both on-board video records and ground based measurements. A preliminary analysis of data from this flight indicates particle velocities are in the range of 30 to 75 ft/sec and recontact is possible for limited particle sizes.
Several times during a mission, the Space Shuttle Orbiter has to release water which has accumulated from the fuel cells. Due to the vacuum environment into which they are being released, the water flash evaporates, leaving small ice particles. There has been some concern that the motion imparted to these particles could return them to the orbiter during subsequent orbits. This could lead to contamination of experiments in the payload bay and in the extreme, damage to materials such as the thermal protection system tiles. It has been reported that particles contacted the orbiter on STS-8 and STS-61A during subsequent orbits after water dumps (i) . As a consequence, water dumps are being planned more carefully with respect to the orientation of the orbiter during the dump. Judicious angles at which the water is released can lead to the water reentering (7) the earth's atmosphere prior to recontact with the vehicle.
CONCLUSIONS
It was found that a larger particle has a longer time in orbit. Breaking up the particles into smaller spheres will have some effect on the decay time and therefore provides another means by which recontact can be avoided. The atmospheric density also plays a key role in the decay of the particle orbits. It was shown that the 1985 atmosphere had less of an effect on the orbit of the particles than the 1989 atmosphere. Since density of the atmosphere is a changing function of time, it is another parameter to take into account for the entire problem.
Originally posted by depthoffield
- depth of field proof when defocusing and focusing again:
As can be seen in these two figures, a retrograde release of the ice particles, regardless of the size of the particle, results in
deorbit of the particles in a timely fashion, posing absolutely no threat to the orbiter.
Originally posted by poet1b
Also, in the video you posted, the tether focus changes quite a bit. To me, it looks like the changes in the appearance of the tether appears to be in sync with the changes of the UFOs around it.
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Look more closely. When an object is less focused it appears larger and less defined, and when it's more focused, it appears smaller and more defined..
Originally posted by JimOberg
I don't know if it's the focus changing, or the automatic gain control.
Both can be manually controlled by the crew (and the MCC), but the AGC often cycles on its own because of control circuit lags.
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by depthoffield
Dof, the NASA report I linked to clearly states that particles do NOT come back to the shuttle. I even quoted this statement from the article saying just that. That was an external, ex, quote.
The article of the study you linked to is specifically done to avoid having particles come back to the shuttle. The article states the following.
As can be seen in these two figures, a retrograde release of the ice particles, regardless of the size of the particle, results in
deorbit of the particles in a timely fashion, posing absolutely no threat to the orbiter.
Being that the articles make it very clear that re-contact is something to be avoided, what type of release do you think they made during STS-75?
Chances are good that anytime a dump isn't done with the shuttle in the correct orientation, it is noted due to the possibility of re-contact.
At what point in time does it sink in that all the evidence points to there NOT being particles from a water dump near the shuttle. In fact ALL the evidence points to there not being any reasonable source for so many particles floating near the shuttle.
Also, in the video you posted, the tether focus changes quite a bit. To me, it looks like the changes in the appearance of the tether appears to be in sync with the changes of the UFOs around it.
Edit to clear up mistakes.
[edit on 25-11-2009 by poet1b]
Originally posted by poet1b
You are the one who doesn't seem to understand optics, or video camera focus. I see you didn't bother to follow my link and read the discussion. Your claims continue to far exceed reasonable analysis of the camera effects in this video.
Originally posted by depthoffield
i found the exact timing of our misterious movies.
pag 75
TAPE NUMBER: 611854 TITLE: STS-75 Orbit 118, 119 (Downlink Reel # 061)
CAPTION: Night pass starfield views and TSS-1R visible from the orbiter. A/G audio.
or better a capture of it, scroll to the right!:
there is said:
Day 61 (1 march 1996, GMT time)
05:11:50 Camera D WS/ Night pass starfield view.
05:12:40 Camera C WS/ Night pass starfield view. View switches between CAMs D and C giving WS/ Starfield views as the Crew looks for the TSS-1R satellite.
05:22:41 Camera C Orbit 119. WS/ Night pass starfield view. View continues to switch between CAMs D and C.
05:30:05 Camera C CAM repositions. LS/ TSS-1R, with tether extended, visible at 113 nautical miles away from Columbia. Debris visible.
05:31:35 Camera D Glare.
05:31:38 Camera C LS/ TSS-1R. Tether and debris visible. Sunlight illuminates view.
05:32:59 Camera C Zoom in/out. LS/ TSS-1R. Debris visible. Glare develops. Iris down to dark FOV.
05:35:55 Camera D Glare.
05:36:01 Camera C LS/ TSS-1R barely visible in the center of the screen. Glare.
05:38:19 CAM turned off. Black.
05:39:16 Camera A Dark FOV. Port side wing, sunglint and Earth limb visible in the lower FOV.
So, the images are taken with camera C.
which is:
STS-75 ORBITER VIDEO CAMERA IDENTIFICATION AND LOCATION
1) Closed Circuit TV Payload Bay Cameras
A - PORT FWD Corner, Wide Angle Color Lens
B - PORT Aft Corner, Wide Angle Color Lens
C - STBD Aft Corner, B & W Lens
D - STBD FWD Corner, B&W Lens
Below, i've tried to do the best match, inserting on the video, the mark times resulted from STS 75 Scene list, quoted above.
All the movie was filmed with camera C, but here were two moments, when the image is switched to camera D for a few seconds, and the image is described as "glare":
05:31:35 camera D Glare.
and
05:35:55 camera D Glare.
there was an EXACT match on the description and what we have, therefore i was able to TIME-MARK the sequence, you can verify for yourself the timings and duration when camera D was used.
Here it is:
Originally posted by depthoffield
This is taken from STS-6.
During the mission, astronauts are going outside on an EVA. The sequence is filmed, as astronauts themselves said, with the "AFT TV camera" []
Here is the entire sequence narrated by the astronauts:
And here is just the slowed down sequence, showing how iris mechanism of the camera is closing down:
What we see...astronauts trying to get outside, and camera focused on them, on the background of the image. But there is some part of the shuttle or it's structures, can't say for sure what, and this structure is closer to the camera, partially blocking the view. And because is closer, much closer that the near limit of the depth of field interval of the lens, it appears very unfocused, very blurred. On the same time, there are some edges, or snags of that closer structure, which reflects loccally the light (i didn't think the sun light, but some artifical light from the illumination system of the shuttle, i guess). Those reflexions are punctual. But beeing very out of focus, BOKEH acts here. (and remember those cameras have catadioptric lens, so that's why the dark center of the bokeh)
And as you see, there are BOKEH WITH NOTCHES, produced BY NASA SHUTTLE CAMERAS from CLOSER and OUT OF FOCUS points of light !
Maybe you want to see them better, here is one frame:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ccdcd378e0e9.jpg[/atsimg]
or maybe even better:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6828a81943b2.gif[/atsimg]
More, we see here the cat-eye effect too!
So what we have here?!
A NASA shuttle camera, showing out of focus closer smaller points of light, as BOKEH, with notches and cat-eye effect.
Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by depthoffield
you continue to ignore, along with the evidence that these numbers of particles floating in the tether video have no legitimate possible source.